CBC's OTA Future: Discussion - Page 9 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

tvlurker · 2012-05-14, 08:38 AM

Commercial broadcasters continue to have regulatory reasons (mandatory carriage and simsub rights on cable) that make it advantageous to continue brodcasting over the air. TVO and CBC get these rights without having to broadcast over the air.

El Gran Chico · 2012-05-14, 12:41 PM

True tvlurker, but how long until the regulations change? Once CBC shuts down vast portions of it's OTA network, I can only imagine CTV/Bell, Global/Shaw, CITY/Rogers, saying "Unfair, if they can do it, why can't we?" They'll claim that it's irrelevant that CBC is public since they all chase the same advertisers.

I think July 31 in the next act in the Great Canadian Over-the-air Television Wind Down. I'm expecting the mandatory carriage/simsub reasons for being OTA whittled down over time. Eventually the only (if any

)OTA in Canada will be in locations it makes financial sense (amount of revenue generated by serving OTA viewers > cost of providing of OTA)

mvashi · 2012-05-14, 01:51 PM

Now that's a scary thought ...

roger1818 · 2012-05-14, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cxgy

Here is a list of all 625 transmitters to be shutdown...

Nice find. Any idea where this list came from? It would be nice if it had the transmitter type (low, medium and high power) as well as tower ownership along with co-location of other services (such as CBC radio). The CBC said they will be selling 87 towers, it would be nice to know which ones are being sold.

frenchhomer · 2012-05-14, 11:23 PM

In my town in the middle of nowhere we receive a very fuzzy CBC that re-broadcasts at 5 watts since 1974. We are slated for shut down this July. I'm in rural N.S. and sad to see that the CBC that used to unite Canadians coast to coast is gonna disappear from a whole bunch folks that only ever has seen the one channel. Sure you can get Satellite but you have to pay for it. So maybe the people that can't receive it should not be taxed for it?

roger1818 · 2012-05-15, 09:34 AM

^^^I agree that it is a sad day. One thing that might help is Shaw is offering free satellite service to those loosing OTA services. See the thread BDU to Offer Free Satellite to Canadians Losing OTA (LTSS) for details and further discussion.

El Gran Chico · 2012-05-18, 03:14 PM

https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/inst...PST=A&Lang=eng

Quote:

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Application to revoke the broadcasting licences of CBIT Sydney, Nova Scotia and CBKST Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and all their transmitters identified in their application; and Application to cease operating all the analog transmitters of 23 of the Corporations’ English- and French-language Television stations identified in their application

Across Canada

2012-0509-7

Open application for applicant contact information.

Emerald_Boar · 2012-05-18, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Application to revoke the broadcasting licences of CBIT Sydney, Nova Scotia and CBKST Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and all their transmitters identified in their application; and Application to cease operating all the analog transmitters of 23 of the Corporations’ English- and French-language Television stations identified in their application

Across Canada

2012-0509-7

Open application for applicant contact information.

Application Link:
https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/DocW...ppNo=201205097

Comment here:
https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/inst...PST=A&Lang=eng

Time to be flooded,
Al

user · 2012-05-18, 03:36 PM

So CBIT and CBKST are licensed as separate stations and not retransmitters. Doesn't that mean CBC could sell them?

tvlurker · 2012-05-18, 04:08 PM

Licenses are not commodities. Any sale would have to be approved by the CRTC, so it doesn't matter whether a particular station has its own license or not -- if someone wanted to buy it (and the CBC wanted to sell it), a separate CRTC application would be necessary anyway.

The only difference between selling it now or after July 31, is that a new application for a TV service after July 31 (as opposed to a license transfer now) might entail a general call for applications from other prospective broadcasters in that market.

I would encourage anyone in the affected markets who watches CBC Over the air to make a comment in the process -- see the links in post #1.

user · 2012-05-18, 04:26 PM

Has the CBC made any effort to seek a buyer for these stations? I'm surprised no one would be interested in buying stations in larger markets like Saskatoon. As for CBIT, Rogers could buy it and set up retransmitters elsewhere in the maritimes, giving them a back door way to set up a Citytv station in that region. Their chances would be better than if they applied to start up a whole new station.

cm3020prob · 2012-05-18, 05:15 PM

The CRTC submitted questions, the CBC replied. Along the lines, the CBC says the analog transmitters are "at the end of their useful lives", spare equipment for analog transmitters are rare and costly since the analog shutdown in the US back in 2009... blah blah blah... and they have to shut down.

Well, here's the thing. The CBC have shut down 27 analog transmitters so far in the big markets. Have they been thrown down the garbage? With more than 1000+ analog transmitters in the US and the hundreds in Canada that have been shut down, it's guaranteed there are spare used parts in the market to keep them operating for another 10 years.

The lease for where the transmitters are located are still something they have to pay. Since there are transmitters located in "communities with a population of 500 or more with English or French mother tongue", they could raise that requirement to 1000, (shutdown transmitters in communities lower than 1000), but keep service in those communities where no cable provider is available.

Anyways, I just hope the CRTC will order them to provide digital services in both languages in big and medium-size markets in a timely fashion, in sub-channel SD form or the whole digital transmitter. At the minimum:
- Calgary: SRC
- Quebec City: CBC
- Kitchener-Waterloo/Cambridge/Guelph: CBC+SRC
- London/Woodstock/Wingham : CBC+SRC
- Halifax/Dartmouth : SRC
- St. John: SRC, Fredericton: SRC, Moncton : CBC
- Windsor: SRC
- Sherbrooke: CBC
- Kelowna/Okanagan Valley/Kamloops : CBC+SRC
- Sudbury-Timmins-North Bay : CBC+SRC

... and so on. These markets are not poor with a few hundred residents.

GeorgeMx · 2012-05-18, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cm3020prob

The CRTC submitted questions, the CBC replied. Along the lines, the CBC says the analog transmitters are "at the end of their useful lives", spare equipment for analog transmitters are rare and costly since the analog shutdown in the US back in 2009... blah blah blah... and they have to shut down.

Well, here's the thing. The CBC have shut down 27 analog transmitters so far in the big markets. Have they been thrown down the garbage? With more than 1000+ analog transmitters in the US and the hundreds in Canada that have been shut down, it's guaranteed there are spare used parts in the market to keep them operating for another 10 years.

The US broadcasters have known they would have to shut down their analog transmitters since the late 1990s. I doubt they spent any money on new analog transmitters unless they were designed for upgrading to digital. In either case, the bulk of the analog transmitters would be significantly more than a decade old at this point, and most would be even older. The US transitioned in 2009 so I would be surprised if more than a few of the analog transmitters even exist - they were probably sold by the pound as scrap metal. Space is valuable in transmitter buildings so clearing out obsolete equipment makes plenty of sense. Storing obsolete equipment in a warehouse makes no sense. The used parts don't exist.

tvlurker · 2012-05-18, 06:43 PM

A station is only worth money if the CRTC will license it.
The CRTC would probably have no problem licesning a CBC affiliate, but the CBC would have to be willing to take on more affiliates, which it appears thay haven't been, recently.
Someone wanting to start up a new service would probably do it without independent of whther some used analog equipment is available. Don't forget, the CRTC and Industry Canada are not handing out any new analog licenses anymore.

user · 2012-05-18, 06:56 PM

Well CBIT and CBKST are already licensed, and the CRTC allows stations and their licenses to be sold. New owners could potentially make these stations into independently owned CBC affiliates. The CBC has said in recent years they don't like having affiliates, but they need to change their mind on this if they're not willing to run the stations themselves. CBKST is in a mandatory digital conversion market, but I think the CRTC would be willing to grant an extension if the only alternative is for the station to shut down.

2012-05-14, 12:41 PM	#122
El Gran Chico Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Toronto/Etobicoke - Bloor/Royal York/Queensway/Islington Posts: 1,386	True tvlurker, but how long until the regulations change? Once CBC shuts down vast portions of it's OTA network, I can only imagine CTV/Bell, Global/Shaw, CITY/Rogers, saying "Unfair, if they can do it, why can't we?" They'll claim that it's irrelevant that CBC is public since they all chase the same advertisers. I think July 31 in the next act in the Great Canadian Over-the-air Television Wind Down. I'm expecting the mandatory carriage/simsub reasons for being OTA whittled down over time. Eventually the only (if any )OTA in Canada will be in locations it makes financial sense (amount of revenue generated by serving OTA viewers > cost of providing of OTA) __________________ Orig 4221, A-D C5, CM 7778, Aquos LC37D62U, TiVo Premiere, DTVpal DVR

2012-05-15, 09:34 AM	#126
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,680	^^^I agree that it is a sad day. One thing that might help is Shaw is offering free satellite service to those loosing OTA services. See the thread BDU to Offer Free Satellite to Canadians Losing OTA (LTSS) for details and further discussion. __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-05-18, 05:15 PM	#132
cm3020prob Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Montreal, QC Posts: 277	The CRTC submitted questions, the CBC replied. Along the lines, the CBC says the analog transmitters are "at the end of their useful lives", spare equipment for analog transmitters are rare and costly since the analog shutdown in the US back in 2009... blah blah blah... and they have to shut down. Well, here's the thing. The CBC have shut down 27 analog transmitters so far in the big markets. Have they been thrown down the garbage? With more than 1000+ analog transmitters in the US and the hundreds in Canada that have been shut down, it's guaranteed there are spare used parts in the market to keep them operating for another 10 years. The lease for where the transmitters are located are still something they have to pay. Since there are transmitters located in "communities with a population of 500 or more with English or French mother tongue", they could raise that requirement to 1000, (shutdown transmitters in communities lower than 1000), but keep service in those communities where no cable provider is available. Anyways, I just hope the CRTC will order them to provide digital services in both languages in big and medium-size markets in a timely fashion, in sub-channel SD form or the whole digital transmitter. At the minimum: - Calgary: SRC - Quebec City: CBC - Kitchener-Waterloo/Cambridge/Guelph: CBC+SRC - London/Woodstock/Wingham : CBC+SRC - Halifax/Dartmouth : SRC - St. John: SRC, Fredericton: SRC, Moncton : CBC - Windsor: SRC - Sherbrooke: CBC - Kelowna/Okanagan Valley/Kamloops : CBC+SRC - Sudbury-Timmins-North Bay : CBC+SRC ... and so on. These markets are not poor with a few hundred residents. __________________ CM-3020 with CM-7777

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2012-05-14, 08:38 AM	#121
tvlurker Veteran Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Craig Henry (Greenbank/Hunt Club), Nepean, ON Posts: 2,751	Commercial broadcasters continue to have regulatory reasons (mandatory carriage and simsub rights on cable) that make it advantageous to continue brodcasting over the air. TVO and CBC get these rights without having to broadcast over the air.

2012-05-14, 01:51 PM	#123
mvashi Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 15	Now that's a scary thought ...

2012-05-14, 11:23 PM	#125
frenchhomer Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 115	In my town in the middle of nowhere we receive a very fuzzy CBC that re-broadcasts at 5 watts since 1974. We are slated for shut down this July. I'm in rural N.S. and sad to see that the CBC that used to unite Canadians coast to coast is gonna disappear from a whole bunch folks that only ever has seen the one channel. Sure you can get Satellite but you have to pay for it. So maybe the people that can't receive it should not be taxed for it?

2012-05-18, 03:36 PM	#129
user Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 80	So CBIT and CBKST are licensed as separate stations and not retransmitters. Doesn't that mean CBC could sell them?

2012-05-18, 04:08 PM	#130
tvlurker Veteran Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Craig Henry (Greenbank/Hunt Club), Nepean, ON Posts: 2,751	Licenses are not commodities. Any sale would have to be approved by the CRTC, so it doesn't matter whether a particular station has its own license or not -- if someone wanted to buy it (and the CBC wanted to sell it), a separate CRTC application would be necessary anyway. The only difference between selling it now or after July 31, is that a new application for a TV service after July 31 (as opposed to a license transfer now) might entail a general call for applications from other prospective broadcasters in that market. I would encourage anyone in the affected markets who watches CBC Over the air to make a comment in the process -- see the links in post #1.

2012-05-18, 04:26 PM	#131
user Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 80	Has the CBC made any effort to seek a buyer for these stations? I'm surprised no one would be interested in buying stations in larger markets like Saskatoon. As for CBIT, Rogers could buy it and set up retransmitters elsewhere in the maritimes, giving them a back door way to set up a Citytv station in that region. Their chances would be better than if they applied to start up a whole new station.

2012-05-18, 06:43 PM	#134
tvlurker Veteran Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Craig Henry (Greenbank/Hunt Club), Nepean, ON Posts: 2,751	A station is only worth money if the CRTC will license it. The CRTC would probably have no problem licesning a CBC affiliate, but the CBC would have to be willing to take on more affiliates, which it appears thay haven't been, recently. Someone wanting to start up a new service would probably do it without independent of whther some used analog equipment is available. Don't forget, the CRTC and Industry Canada are not handing out any new analog licenses anymore.

2012-05-18, 06:56 PM	#135
user Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 80	Well CBIT and CBKST are already licensed, and the CRTC allows stations and their licenses to be sold. New owners could potentially make these stations into independently owned CBC affiliates. The CBC has said in recent years they don't like having affiliates, but they need to change their mind on this if they're not willing to run the stations themselves. CBKST is in a mandatory digital conversion market, but I think the CRTC would be willing to grant an extension if the only alternative is for the station to shut down.