Streaming vs BD/DVD (Split From Blockbuster Thread)

[ssbtech]

I haven't even brought up that side of streaming and cloud media yet.

Napster went bust in Canada - their instruction to their customers: "If you don't want to lose access to your purchased music, burn it to a CD to remove the DRM. If you have to reload your computer or buy a new one, you won't be able to re-install our player"

What about selling content you no longer watch? There are plenty of places you can buy used DVDs, CDs, etc... Do you have that right to re-sell iTunes purchased content?

[audacity]

Originally Posted by ssbtech

It better for another $109 on top of your iPad purchase. I'm not willing to spend that kind of money to be locked into one ecosystem.

The iPad doesn't require a Apple TV and vice versa. I'm not sure why you suggest "on top of". If you want portability, buy a iPad. If you want to plug a iPad into a HDTV, get the adapter. If you want a full-time streaming device on your TV, get a AppleTV. I'm sorry if $109 is too much for you.

Originally Posted by ssbtech

While I don't have an Xbox, I do have a PS3. It's oh so much fun going through the forced update routine before I can use PSN or Netflix.

Doesn't BD-Live require a internet connection and bring mandatory updates to your player (so you can watch the latest discs)? I agree that the PS3 update process is slow and painful and requires a number of points where the user needs to push it along compared to other devices. Fortunately, most other devices don't have the same issue. Sony really punted when it came to this generation of consoles - on many fronts.

Originally Posted by ssbtech

Streaming media apps built into TVs? Sure, But unless you go out and replace all your TVs you're still locked into specific pieces of hardware with specific apps.

"Sorry kids, we have no movies for the roadtrip because we've become so reliant on our smart TV's streaming apps that we don't have any discs to take with us"

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I'm saying that new TVs have streaming media features built in. Older TVs owners would need to pay ~$100 for a device.

In your "sorry kids" example, did you forget already that devices like iPads or iPods that have local memory can cache the movie on there? And if you purchased the movie (instead of just renting it), the movie is very useful for the "road-trip". Both use cases are taken care of. You pretend that the only way to move data around is with plastic optical discs.

Oh, and I should point out that DVD/Blu-ray + kids = scratched discs. Put it on a iPod/iPad for them and its much more durable, and it can contain many movies - no need to switch discs and risk the kids scratching them.

Originally Posted by s40

It is far easier to use a dvd or cd for us older folks than to go to I tunes and and use that device. If the provider that sold you your tunes goes under so does your music/movies, if your computer dies or gets a virus it is much harder to get all your music back, a plastic disc cd will play in almost all devices,

If Apple went under, iTunes music should still work just fine since it doesn't contain any DRM. The movies still contain DRM, but if Apple were to go under, you could just break the weak DRM on your files (which is much less effort than "backing up" a bunch of Blu-rays).

Backups are also much easier to automate for files than it is for physical optical discs. You seem to forget that its easy to lose CDs/DVDs or to scratch them.

If you get a virus, you can just re-download your content from Apple or get them from your backups. If you're on a trip and you lose your computer and your CDs/DVDs, its much easier to get the digital files back because you can just re-download the stuff you've already purchased. There is no such option for the CDs and DVDs. In fact, the "disaster recovery" options for DVDs and Blu-rays are quite poor for people who don't break DRM.

Originally Posted by ssbtech

Napster went bust in Canada - their instruction to their customers: "If you don't want to lose access to your purchased music, burn it to a CD to remove the DRM. If you have to reload your computer or buy a new one, you won't be able to re-install our player"

DRM sucks, I agree. But my solution to this is to not buy music or movies. I just "rent" what I want to watch when I want to watch it (on Zune/iTunes/Netflix/Hulu) and have a Rdio subscription for music. If any one service were to go away, I just move on to the next service. I was a Napster subscriber when they died, but I was just using it on my Sonos system and it was no skin off my back, I just moved to Rdio. Actually, truth be told I had already moved to Rdio a few months before Napster shut down their Canadian operations because I liked Rdio's interface/apps much better.

While we're on the topic of DRM sucks, I'll point out again that Blu-ray has plenty of it. In fact, there is a system in place (AACS) where the Blu-ray Disc Association can blacklist your player so you can't play new movies. So, if you're going to argue against DRM (which you do), it is very difficult it argue in favour of Blu-ray.

[pinner62]

I don;t forsee downloads replacing disc media for sell through titles but I can see downloads replacing movie rentals if it gets that easy.For rentals most people are not quite as concerned over PQ & SQ,extras, etc.They just want to see the movie,and for an average renter,a 1080i movie with DD5.1 is pretty cool,where as for blu-ray supporters,we want 1080p hi bitrate with pcm or DTS-MA audio,commentary,bonuses,etc.....oh we want a big shelf of them.
Blu-ray is here for long time ,millions of us will be p...ssed if it disappears ,and audacity your negative comments on the ps3 is getting old,its an awesome console ,if I have to update it to play something every 2 months or so I,m not gonna get upset ,I,m gonna start the update ,go make something to eat come back and watch or play.Its my favorite console ,I've had many ,its right up there with the ones I can;t be without,unlike xbox ,no thanks !!!!!
Not sure what everyones talking bout with the constant updates to watch a blu-ray ,I haven;t upgraded anything in months ,maybe once all 2012 .Had game updates ,firmware updates maybe every 2 months if that.There always welcome ,they improve stuff ,I,m all for that.I,m greatful for blu-ray ,watching movies doesn;t have to be a movie theatre only choice any more .

[ssbtech]

What a nightmare it was to rent a movie tonight, compounded by our indecisiveness.

I was prepared to give this iTunes thing a try. It was pestering me for an update so I did. 10 minutes later, everything rebooted and we're up. Spent a little time clicking through titles, checking out trailers (which are not in HD). Then it crashed. Had to close iTunes from Task Manager. Tried again, wouldn't load. Two reboots later and we're back up and running. My friend was having trouble seeing the small font from the couch so he had to stand in the middle of the living room.

Couldn't decide on a movie, thought we'd try out Netflix because it has the genre we wanted. Shoot, what's my password? No, that's not it. Nope. Ah ha! That's it. Browsing through movies, no option to show only HD movies. Trailer window was quite small. Didn't see what we wanted.

Popped onto the Shaw VoD website - two minutes later and we've decided on Horrible Bosses. Great. Flipped the receiver over to the cable box, loaded up the SoD screens - couldn't find the movie. Hmm. Interesting. Opened up the Shaw VoD website, searched for the movie, clicked "Order Now" and logged in. Hmm. Now I'm on the "Subscription" page. Interesting. Searched again for the movie, now the "Order now" button has converted to "Learn More". Clicking it takes me back to the "Subscription" page. I guess we can only watch the movie if I subscribe to one of the movie packs.

Not to be out-done by this clearly superior "cloud" format, we had a look on the Playstation Network for the movie, only to discover it isn't available to rent.



Gave up and stuck in a blu-ray disc I had sitting around. Worked like a charm.

Multiple platforms, multiple devices, inconsistent content availablity, inconsistent quality... this "cloud" platform has a very long way to go before it is anywhere near as friendly to use as zipping to the local BlockBuster and grabbing a plastic disc.

[MarcP]

And exaggerations abound.

Rented a movie last night too from my AppleTV. Worked like a charm too. But I guess your experience is the only one that counts, right?

[ssbtech]

I realize it is not necessarily a typical experience. Like I said, it was compounded by our indecisiveness but it was also very frustrating dealing with the updates, crashes, and inconsistencies.

[QuickSilver]

I am unable to rent a movie on an Apple TV. Says "Accessing Store' for about 2 seconds and then disappears. It does the usual of asking for a security code (CC) and I know the card is fine.

Happened to my boss as well on both our office Apple TV and his home one. Apple support (by email) has been useless so far.

I am not defending disc media since I do not have a near by place to rent anyways I could care less if Blu Ray disappears. But it has been frustrating so far with the Apple TV and Renting.

[cooper83]

Originally Posted by MarcP

And exaggerations abound.

Rented a movie last night too from my AppleTV. Worked like a charm too. But I guess your experience is the only one that counts, right?

I'd say both you & ssbtech have valid points. I returned my AppleTV because I was so frustrated trying to rent movies with my unreliable internet connection. Same thing with PSN. Not sure how old ssbtech is, and no disrespect intended, but I could see his situation mirroring my parents experience should they ever attempt renting this way. As soon as internet is introduced, there are too many variables to make for a pleasant user experience, especially for the non-techies out there (the majority of the population).

[ssbtech]

For the record, I'm 28 and quite technically savvy. I've spent years working in computer sales and service and have dealt with many, many customers.

This is why I'm so concerned with where this "cloud" stuff is going. Many of my customers are/were well educated professionals in their field, but their comfort level with computers beyond simple email and the web is low.

When I present my arguments here they're not from the perspective of a techie - they're from the perspective of one of the several hundred customers whith whom I have dealt.

There are those of us who embrace new technology and are willing to put up with the frustrations and growing pains that come with it and then there is the majority of the population who just want to sit back and enjoy the show.


I have some close family friends - the Dad has been a pharmacist for many years and knows more about medications and the human body than most of us ever will. But when his favorites list disappears from IE he's on the phone with me asking how to get it back. It's usually because one of the kids has set Chrome to the default browser and he hasn't noticed the change.

He'd have no end of frustration renting movies to an iPad to use on their summer roadtrips which are about 3,000km long. When they bought their new truck with a DVD player and wireless headphones for the back seat he said it was the best thing he could have envisioned for the kids.



So for the average joe, this cloud thing is far more complicated and restrictive than it needs to be. You simply cannot beat the simplicity of sticking a DVD into a player and pressing play.

[lars]

The Digital Entertainment Group (DEG) have released their first quater report for 2012. Blu-ray disc sales are up 23% over the first quarter from last year.

[eljay]

My 53-year-old wife - who refuses to use the HT unless I'm around because there are too many devices and remotes - is very comfortable watching streamed TV shows on her laptop. My 52-year-old technophobe friend was recently given an iPod Touch and he loves it!

IMO, they are the Average Jane and Joe, and if they can function with ethereal media, I don't see the "cloud" being an insurmountable obstacle for most other people.

That being said, I remain a fan of physical media. For now.

[audacity]

Originally Posted by lars

Blu-ray disc sales are up 23% over the first quarter from last year.

I had difficulty finding a complete break-down of the numbers, but if you thought that 23% is impressive...

Revenue from digital streaming was up 545 percent, to $549 million, from about $85 million in the year earlier period, and total digital revenue rose more than 74 percent, to $1.2 billion from about $699 million. But, as analysts have pointed out in the past, the continued increase in streaming revenue to some extent simply replaces revenue that in the past came from cable television sales.

Source

Considering how small the Blu-ray numbers have been in the past, it needs more than a 23% year over year increase if it is going to continue to be relevant, especially when you consider that DVD sales (the dominant "plastic disc format") is tanking.

What I'm curious about (and still cannot find the answer on) is when someone buys one of those DVD/Blu-ray combo packs (which helps reduce inventory SKUs that need managing) do they count it as a Blu-ray sale or a DVD sale or both?

[audacity]

ssbtech,

If you're going to say you "Gave up and stuck in a blu-ray disc I had sitting around. Worked like a charm." because you had so much trouble streaming, isn't it a bit rich to come along in your next post and say "For the record, I'm 28 and quite technically savvy." when I know many non-tech-savvy baby-boomer generation (the parents of my generation) who are able to use their Apple TV quite successfully?

It's like someone who insists that they're a great driver when their driving record would indicate otherwise.

[QuickSilver]

It is not a difficult process when it works. If it fails then it can sure turn into a headache. Tried many times last week to rent a movie on the Apple tv(s) with no success both on the work, home and a friends simple network. I gave up and played video games. I think it is the notion that once it fails it could open a whole can of worms for the technical or non-technical person. For the record I have 2 children (3 and 7 months) and administer fairly complex networks and Police agencies for a over a decade. It not the fact that I am technical or non-technical its the fact I have VERY LITTLE TIME to mess with this stuff after the kids are in bed on a Saturday night.

[jshel101]

I rent movies from iTunes, on my ATV2, frequently, and I have never had a problem. Actually I did have one problem where it took a long time to buffer. But my ATV2 was connected through wifi. I connected it directly and had not had a problem since. Who really cares that the trailers are not in HD.

With Shaw VOD, this is extremely simple. I also never had a problem with this. IMO, you have such a hate on for internet content, that I think you would look for any excuse to find a fault with any of these methods.