Run OTA And Cable On Same TV?

[cptmds]

I have a Samsung that will let you switch modes very quickly by pressing Tools and then either the red/yellow buttons on the remote.

TV is in storage right now, so I can't give you more than that, but I know it's really simple. My Sony will also store both modes, but you have to go through the menu to switch, so it's a bit more complicated.

You'd also need an A/B switch for the TV's coaxial input, so you'd have to walk up to the TV and switch it. They sell them at Canadian Tire; conveniently enough, the inputs are labeled "Antenna" and "Cable".

That's probably the simplest option. If your TV doesn't do this, then you can get a box like PhotoJim or HWP said.

To be fair, my Samsung only cost around $400 last year, and you'd probably pay a good chunk of that for a box alone.

[jjc_Mtl]

Thank you everybody for your responses;
I will try the VCR solution; I though the quality would be poor;
it'a composite video signal (yellow plug);

My TV (Insignia) has only one F coax connector, no A/B switch.
An external A/B switch does not work. I have try it. I must rescan the band.

I found this tuner:
Sabrent TV-LCDHR High-Resolution TV Tuner Box
is it a good solution ?

thanks again
jjc

[mrvanwinkles]

jjc_Mtl

I am/was doing what you describe in Kingston with Analog Cable (Adaptor now) and a SD Standard Def. Digital OTA convertor box.

It worked / works well in my case. Still.


- Analog Cable in to the TV set's only (1) RF input.

- Digital OTA Convertor box, in to one of the TV set's Composite inputs ( Yel Red White RCA cables).

And just switching the TV back and forth between "TV" and "Video 1" input with the TV's remote. (switching is pretty fast and easy - and you can keep both tuners "ON" and tuned to channels of interest)


So - if you can find a OTA Digital convertor box that has the Composite outputs. That's one solution.


Alternate idea - Get an old Analog Cable Convertor Box w/remote, and use that as your Analog Cable tuner. There should be plenty of those around - second hand and inexpensive. Find one with Composite outputs, Video / Audio outputs, then you could use your own TV's OTA Over the Air tuner - combined Digital and Analog(?) tuner - and connect your antenna right directly to your TV - no need for the OTA Digital Convertor Box.

But YES - as others mention - Analog Cable may "GO AWAY" soon.

Analog Cable *IS* going away in Kingston with COGECO:
We have the "Digital Adaptors" now in Kingston w/COGECO since the deadline for digital migration on Cogeco Kingston has now passed.

... Even so ... The OTA Digital Convertor Box is still connected and working via Composite input on that TV.

[ A couple things to consider / think about: ]

- Any CLEAR QAM / Unencrypted Digital signals - from your Cable Providor ?

If yes, then if your TV has a combined QAM tuner / Analog Cable tuner ... then you might wanna continue to use your TV as the Cable Tuner - so you can possibly get the Clear QAM stuff too.


- Any Analog channels still being transmitted OTA in your region that you can receive? That you want to watch? ( if you're in Montreal - it's probably mostly digital OTA now ... but just wanted to mention this - as you may still have analog receiveable in your region, from outside Montreal)

If yes, then you might want to try and figure out a way to use the "Analog Pass Through" feature, possibly, of your OTA Digital Convertor Box ... if you get one of those ... ]


But Yes ... as others here mention - if you decide to just get a Digital Set top box (or "Digital Adaptor") from your Cable Providor. Then hopefully you can just then use the TV's own Tuner as the OTA Tuner. Antenna straight in to the TV's RF input.

... And hopefully then, make sure that the Cable Providor's Digital Box / or Adaptor, that you get - has working Video / Audio outputs of some sort that you can connect to one of your TV's free and available inputs (ex. composite, component, s-video, HDMI .. and Audio inputs)

(ie. not like the Cable company Digital "ADAPTORS" we have in Kingston with Cogeco - the Adaptor's there have only an Analog NTSC RF output, ch 3 or ch 4 - NO other type of output ! )
Otherwise - you will be forced to "Tie Up" / "Use" your TV's One and ONLY RF input for the Cable service. And can't easily use the TV's own OTA - over the air - tuner(s).

Lots to think about actually ...

We've got a mix of many things still.

[PhotoJim]

Originally Posted by jjc_Mtl

Thank you everybody for your responses;
I will try the VCR solution; I though the quality would be poor;
it'a composite video signal (yellow plug)

It is poor - but so is 4:3-formatted analog cable on an HDTV. You won't be losing anything, but it will still be terrible compared to OTA HDTV or HD digital cable.

[mrvanwinkles]

Alternate idea:

I experimented with a ATSC dig / NTSC analog SD/HD OTA tuner box.
[ Purchased at a discount electronics store - I will not mention the Model here ]

I discovered that it had the Cable Tuners in it as well (!) Analog Cable and Clear QAM Cable combined tuner.

So in "Cable MODE" that box did both Analog Cable and Clear QAM combined.

[ It also had "OTA - over the air MODE" ATSC dig / NTSC analog as well in SD/HD]

It had HD outputs too.
Component R B G, and R W stereo audio. HDMI also - but that was flakey on that box.

ie. if you find a cable tuner box that does Clear QAM too


So if you have Clear QAM from your Provider and Want it from your Cable Providor - a tuner box like that one might be of use.


[ I am thinking the "Good" "Desirable" solution has the antenna going straight into the HDTV's RF tuner - so you can enjoy the "few" high quality HD channels from OTA -over the air - with antenna. And also - any possible Analog OTA channels still.

And the CABLE - the SD, standard definition - Analog Cable, w/many channels, then goes into another TV "input" via a separate external tuner. VCR as mentioned earlier or older Analog Cable Convertor, similar idea, or if you have Clear QAM available to you and want it ... a tuner box that does that too. ]

[ At times I did note some Clear QAM channels available in HD ! from the Cable Providor! Free! But not usually, and not for very long. They seemed to close down any HD Clear QAM to SD only / or encrypt it, very quickly - they did not leave it for long - and that is the only reason why I mention ... possibly... the HD/SD Tuner box for combined Analog Cable / Clear QAM - and use a Component RGB RW input or an HDMI input - in order to get and enjoy any possible channel like that in Clear QAM HD - SLIM CHANCE ... but never know in the Future - that sort of box might become of more use, or more useful or valuable to you in the future - hard to say.]

[HDTV Junkee]

I think that all of the posters have done an excellent job advising you of the many available options open to you given your situation. Presently, on my 3-year old toshiba LCD, I receive OTA, rogers digital / analog and digital satellite with the greatest of ease. Frankly, I have too many options now.

Perhaps a newer TV (older LCD model - 2 years old as an example) combined with an A-B switch (for OTA / cable) may be the cheapest option. That is, if you do not really care about the bells and whistles of an LED or 3-D, then it would probably suffice for now.

imo, don't waste your time trying to use old analog technology VCR's etc. -- the picture quality that you get OTA and through a proper digiital set-top-box does warrant spending a lot of money on a solution.

[El Gran Chico]

Eventually all analogue cable will be gone

As a hybrid analog cable/OTA user, the end of analog cable will be the end of cable period in my home. FWIW, a TiVo is a great solution (although pricey if a digital video recorder is more than you want). It has 2 coax connectors - one for cable, one for antenna - and the TiVo merges them seamlessly.

The upstairs tv uses the VCR/composite cable solution. Neither of these solutions will work with a cable set top box so out we'll officially be in the "cable cutter" statistic.

[JamesK]

I will try the VCR solution; I though the quality would be poor

Why would passing through the VCR make a significant difference? In the TV, the tuner converts the signal to composite video. The tuner in the VCR does the same thing. Remember, you're not recording & playing back the show, just passing it through the VCR. Use the best connection the VCR and TV support. Composite should certainly be available, but some VCRs and TVs also support S-video. You'll also need stereo audio cables. This method will also provide the best playback quality, though there's not much to begin with when playing video cassettes.

[mrvanwinkles]

Originally Posted by mrvanwinkles

(ie. not like the Cable company Digital "ADAPTORS" we have in Kingston with Cogeco - the Adaptor's there have only an Analog NTSC RF output, ch 3 or ch 4 - NO other type of output ! )
Otherwise - you will be forced to "Tie Up" / "Use" your TV's One and ONLY RF input for the Cable service. And can't easily use the TV's own OTA - over the air - tuner(s).

Possible IDEAS for using the Cable Co's simple Digital ADAPTOR Box:


Maybe what I ( or WE ) need to find then, is a small, compact, inexpensive and affordable "demodulator" box, that will take Analog NTSC channel 3 or 4 as an input --> demodulate it --> and convert it simply to Composite Output (RCA Yellow Video, and RCA Red White Stereo Audio) for an HDTV input.


Working similar to the VCR idea / but using the Cable co's own Digital Adaptor as the Cable tuner.
[ A older VCR itself will do this - tuned to channel 3 or 4 ]


But so that I ( or WE ) can convert the ch 3 or 4 RF output of the Cable Co Digital ADAPTOR to Composite type output ... SIMPLY (because they don't provide that output on the Adaptor)

And therefore *NOT* use up the HDTV's ONE (1) and only, and valuable, RF input.

Scenario A:

Cable co Dig Adaptor ---> 3/4 RF to Composite convertor ---> HDTV Composite in

Antenna ---> HDTV RF in (for HD or SD OTA)




ANOTHER IDEA / Theory / Possibility:

Could you COMBINE the two signals with a simple Splitter?
And feed to HDTV RF in ?

Or is that a bad idea?




Scenario B:

Digital Adaptor + Antenna --> [RF combiner]---> HDTV RF input.


1. Put TV in "Over the Air / Antenna mode" (not Cable TV mode)

2. Turn on the Cable Co Adaptor (so you have a signal present).

3. Set up the Antenna (so you also have ATSC OTA digital signals present, and the HDTV will also scan and pick up those as well, and add *ALL* of them in to the same "channel list")

4. Do the Channel Scan on the HDTV

... and afterwards tuning the HDTV to Analog 3 or 4 gives you your channels from your Cable co digital ADAPTOR. Work with ADAPTOR remote to tune those.

... and tuning the HDTV to the different ATSC, Digital, OTA - over the air channels - gives you your channels from your antenna(s).


ALL IN ONE TIDY, COMPLETE CHANNEL LIST (hopefully, in theory)


Thoughts:

( provided your HDTV has the combined Analog NTSC, and Digital ATSC, over the air tuners in it - that will work together in one MODE, and pick up both analog and digital channels, and add them ALL into ONE channel list, accessible to you from your HDTV remote. )

( provided one of RF channel 3 or 4 are no longer in broadcast use in your area - and one of those channels is free for you to use, personally/internally, to your HDTV, and you are not picking it up / or trying to pick it up, broadcast over the air )

( provided you are not feeding the Adaptor's Analog 3 or 4 output back up the antenna, and broadcasting it around the neighbourhood ... so you might need some good "ISOLATION" between the two RF "combiner" inputs )

( possible idea for more "ISOLATION" is to add as large as possible an "Attenuator" on the Adaptor output, before the RF "combiner".
-SO- Drop down / Weaken / Attenuate the ADAPTOR signal as much as possible, yet while still receiveing just enough signal at the HDTV, before feeding the Adaptor signal into the combiner, so as to minimize any possible signals going from the Adaptor to the antenna.
-OR- to get a combiner that itself has VERY GOOD isolation / separation between the inputs. )


Scenario B (with attenuator):

[Digital Adaptor Out--> ATTENUATOR] + Antenna --> [RF COMBINER]-->HDTV RF in

[Emerald_Boar]

huh?

All you need to support cable/ antenna is a basic switch.
Use 2 different inputs on the TV.
or there is also filtering RFs.

There are number of switches you can use. A manual basic A/B to wireless A/B/C/D switch. This would allow you use Tuner on the TV for both. Requires 2 different coaxial feeds.

2 inputs. The issue is you need 2 tuners. One for tuning cable. Another for the antenna. Feed then Antenna in the coaxial. Cable BOX into the composite, HDMI or Component. Switch the TV inputs between them.

RF filtering. Can be done. If do not wanna internet tor Advanced TV sevices. But as soon as you want internet or Advanced TV sevices. Then there can be some serious conflicts. As internet/DTV uses same RFs are OTA television. However traditional analog TV (except for VHF RFs) is fairly compatible with OTA.

I recommend using different inputs on the TV. As its pretty straight forward.

Good Luck,
Al

[HWP]

He doesnt want to have to re-scan every time he switches between cable and OTA. I think this is where he is at right now. I don't think an A/B switch wll do the trick for him.

[majortom]

a careful selection of TV will solve the rescan problem.
On my LG I can have a separate list of channels in memory for:
TV - Analog
DTV - ATSC
CATV - Analog Cable
CADTV - Clear QAM

Generally speaking I just leave it on the ATSC channels though,
unless I'm playin around with the QAM for some reason.

[mrvanwinkles]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

a careful selection of TV will solve the rescan problem.

Ya, agreed, those are the ultimate / best / most user friendly solutions.

Try to find the Right HDTV for the job / for what you wanna try and do.

[ Always try to select the Right TOOL For the JOB ]


A TV that allows you to store and keep in memory - different channel lists - from different "scans", or on different RF inputs - and switch back and forth between them easily and conveniently, with the HDTV's remote ...

Ya - definitely that would be the sort of product to look for.


TV with two RF inputs ? "AIR" and "CABLE"

Also - we used to have at work, a TV with TWO (2) RF inputs.
I think it was an older 51 inch Samsung Plasma (don't remember exactly).

One RF input was labelled "AIR"
(combined ATSC digital and NTSC analog tuner on one channel list / page)

Second RF input was labelled "CABLE"
(probably combined analog cable / clear QAM tuner on a second list / page )

Saves / stores both, and switch back and forth with a button on the remote.


But if Analog Cable is mostly going away ... and Clear QAM - well, we just don't know .... what'd ya do?


I guess just make sure the TV has enough "other inputs".

Cause most upper tier cable digital boxes now have composite, component or HDMI outputs. ( or maybe s-video too )


Alot of Cable companies seem to wanna use the RCA COMPONENT RGB / RW audio connection with their "HD Box" - Officially "They don't support HDMI" even if it works ...

Personally, I'd try and also make sure the HDTV that I might buy, also has a good variety and a good number of INDEPENDENT inputs.

I'd wish for ALL of:
Composite, Component, S-Video, HDMI inputs.
Multiple RF inputs too - if possible.

[ Then some HDTV's have direct connection for Internet or USB too ! ]

... as many as possible.

A large wish list ... ya

And that might be a more expensive HDTV - for sure.

But what else can you do ???

[mrvanwinkles]

Re: My earlier post. Post # 15 :

RE: Ideas/how to use/the Cable co's "simple" Digital ADAPTOR


Join-Tenna ? Join-Antenna Device ?

I am thinking also that maybe a Channel 3 or Channel 4 "Join-Tenna" device might be useful behind the TV set to try and do that.

Combine using a channel 3 or 4 Join-Tenna / Join-Antenna device (?).


FILTER ?

Another thought was that a Channel 3 or Channel 4 FILTER (?) might also come in useful.

Filter TO and FROM the Antenna with a channel 3 or 4 filter.
[ and I wonder if a Join-Tenna device already includes some sort of channel "Filter" on the other input leg of the device ? ]

The filter should help prevent / lessen any interference of the Adaptor signal back up to the Antenna, or any RF 3 or 4 signal that might be received and come down from the antenna as well. Increase / improve the Ch 3 or Ch 4 isolation going TO or coming FROM the Antenna side of the Combiner.


Comment:

I think it remains for someone to EXPERIMENT and actually TRY this and report back.

Might be a good and fairly simple solution for many - if it works ... without any problems or negative effects.

Anyone out there already do this sort of thing ? Try this sort of thing ?

[jyw76]

I am in Toronto and use an antenna for HDTV and have basic Rogers cable which when we moved in was never deactivated.

Could you not combine these to coaxial feeds into the Channel Plus 2 way combiner and then connect to tv coax in?

Would the TV not recognize the different feeds SDTV and HDTV.

I haven't tried but in theory wouldn't this work?

Thanks