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Old 2012-03-13, 11:42 AM   #31
audacity
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Curious how you think the mobile industry is suffering? Very far from it. I don't know the statistics, but I am sure the mobile industry makes far more money than the console gaming industry.
Well, that is a misleading comparison. That would be like saying that the PC industry makes far more than the console industry, so consoles are dead.

What you need to do is compare the gaming portion of the PC industry to the gaming portion of the console industry (a large percentage, but you still need to excluding people who buy a PS3 just to play blu-ray discs for instance).

The argument against mobile gaming is that if game devs sell games for $1 or $5 rather than $30-$60 then you need a lot more customers to make up this massive difference in revenue per customer. Especially when you have Apple taking a 30% cut of the little money they do get.
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Old 2012-03-13, 11:50 AM   #32
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I myself never said consoles are dead. Probably far from it, and I also do not think IOS will kill off consoles in the near future, as I have said before. I understand that the game developers probably do not make as much money as developing games for consoles. However; a lot of the games the developers bring to the iPad are already developed for another gaming device. So they don't have to develop a new game, so they spend a lot less money than creating a new game for the consoles. Look at those developers that started with only creating games for IOS. Some of them are making a ton of money on those $0.99 to $5.00 games.
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Old 2012-03-13, 06:35 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by jshel101 View Post
Some of them are making a ton of money on those $0.99 to $5.00 games.
oh for sure


when your startup costs for developing a sub $5 game are (and this is generous probably) a couple grand, you don't have to move a lot of product to start making money



I think that iOS will eventually become a feasible gaming system for real games, it will not ever KILL console gaming



right now, i've got Dungeon Defenders on both my win7 laptop, and my asus transformer tablet

it looks and plays almost identically on both, but it's still a fair bit better on the laptop in terms of some of the things you can do in game
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Old 2012-03-13, 07:26 PM   #35
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I think convergence will "kill" console gaming before the iPad really has a chance. We're already seeing consoles becoming DVD/Blu-ray players, networked media players, IPTV boxes, connected devices for streaming services, and even social networking tools. The line between the Xbox and PS3, and devices like the Apple TV, Roku, or Boxee Box is already narrow, and I expect that convergence to continue.

I predict that this generation of consoles will probably be the last that we differentiate into their own category.
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Old 2012-03-16, 12:23 PM   #36
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I think there will always be a market for Consoles. There is a dedicated gamer fanbase out there who want real quality games on quality hardware.

A previous poster mention that the current gen of consoles are nearly 7 years old. I think its the longest span that I recall before a next gen was released. It doesn't surprise me that a portable device can now have similar power to a console that came out in 2005.

The next consoles are around the corner though and they would leave portable devices in the dust again.

I think both would fair ok. I think consoles will stick around for people that are really into gaming. I would think using a portable device for gaming would be attractive to the casual gaming crowd (like the wii was). Both devices have their own markets. I also think the gaming market will continue to grow. The kids of the '80s were the first ones to get gaming and home consoles (except for pong at the end of the 70s). This kids are now in their 30's. Most people older then that aren't into video games. However the younger generations still get into gaming. By the time today's 30 year olds are in their 80s, gaming will have a huge demographic. You'll have every generation playing video games instead of just the younger ones.

I also agree $60 is too much for a new game. I generally wait a few months. My sweet spot seems to be when they drop below $40.
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Old 2012-03-16, 05:46 PM   #37
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Lots of good points made in this thread. It leaves me now pondering a new angle....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zod View Post
A previous poster mention that the current gen of consoles are nearly 7 years old. I think its the longest span that I recall before a next gen was released. It doesn't surprise me that a portable device can now have similar power to a console that came out in 2005.
There's a reason it's been seven years since a console refresh...Sony and Microsoft are both still in red ink in the current gen. A massive amount of red ink. Microsoft hasn't recovered their investment from the day they entered this business.

The one commercial standout is Nintendo. They made a fortune, but they did it by reaching a new demographic of lower-cost, casual gamers....so it seems to me that Nintendo should be terrified of iOS imminently knocking them out.

Sony and Microsoft should still be really, really scared though. Their investors won't have an appetite for another generation of business losses. The focus on cost-control for the next gen will be far more intense, and spec improvements will be evolutionary not revolutionary.
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Old 2012-03-16, 05:53 PM   #38
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Sales for the XBox 360 & PS3 are also still very strong, which is another reason they haven't needed to worry about a product refresh. I do agree with the comment about Nintendo probably having the most to lose from iOS gaining traction in the casual gaming sector though.
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Old 2012-03-17, 08:42 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by BGY11 View Post
Sales for the XBox 360 & PS3 are also still very strong,.
MS sold 2.3 million 360's in q1 2012 so they're very happy with sales. They now have 40 million xbox live members.
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Old 2012-03-18, 11:59 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by 99semaj View Post
Microsoft hasn't recovered their investment from the day they entered this business.
Can you cite your source for this? For a number of years now when I've been looking at Microsoft's financial statements their Entertainment and Devices Division (which is mostly their XBOX division) has been doing quite well. I think the XBOX 360 started being a profitable business in 2008, and has been profitable since then.

You are probably correct regarding Sony as the PS3; Sony's financial statements have been a river of red ink for many years now.
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Old 2012-03-19, 01:15 AM   #41
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Sure, my sources are the financial statements for MSFT, available from the investor section of their website.

Just add up the profit/losses in the Entertainment and Devices division going back the past ten tears since they entered the console business. It's a net loss, despite a modest profit the last couple of years. Sales don't mean much when you're losing money, and recent profitable quarters don't mean much when a product is nearing the end of its lifecycle.

I only bring it up because its an additional pressure that both MSFT and SON have to deal with. Investors are rightfully going to challenge these losing strategies while Apple is outperforming.
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Old 2012-03-19, 11:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
the 99 cent games play like 99 cent games tho

there is a HUGE gap in the quality of games for iOS and windows/xbox/ps3/nintendo
Not true. There are some awesome games for 99¢ and some real gems for over $4. Add to that they go on sale every now and then. The $60 game is going to be a tough sell for console makers and kids parents.
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Old 2013-07-14, 09:52 PM   #43
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I bought my new Ipad 4 few months ago and love it, Ipad 4 with 32 gig/4g LTE. Though I'm kicking myself for I should have just got Wifi only version with more space, Like 64 gig.. But still love it,

I use my Ipad for:
- keeping in touch with my sister/friend via texting
- quickly looking information on simple stuff
- checking email,
- killing time when waiting in busy dr office.
- playing causal games when out and about lol
- Use as camera if you don't have one lol
- Watching netflix at night in bed, with Ipad sitting on book.

I've lost count how many times I gone into a store or some place and I'm trying explain something or ask a question or something and/or show somebody something, can quickly take snap shot, send to friend/sister or just show it too them.. they like " Oh I see now " lol.

my parents don't even have a computer and there cell phone is so old, it only does very basic functions. While visiting them about month ago. I showed my mom how use basic web browsing and she was slowly figuring things out, While I have tried to show her how use a mouse on my laptop, she often got upset.

Apple very well could move into the gaming world, They could get a good deal on Intel i5 or i7 cpu with decent Nvidia GPU that could kick ps4/xbox one but if they wanted too. If Nvidia could cut a good deal with apple. Or maybe a Nvidia could supply them custom Cpu/GPU all in one system like AMD did. Apple already has great App store there all setup to deliver full games, They could even perhaps sign on some other gaming companies that could make only excluse games to Apple console or Mac/ Apple products and force microsoft/Sony to cringed a bit in fear or concern.

I like all systems for each different reasons. I re-built home made PC for hard core gaming with Asus motherboard. intel I7 Cpu/ With Nvidia GTX 670 GPU video card, yes I know I can hook up my new home made PC my Large screen tv if i wanted too (Already do sometime when play steam games).

I still love my 360/ps3, and plan on getting ps4 when comes out, but doubt I'll buy xbox one, as that what my home made PC basically is now.. lol.
But some new blood like Apple console/gaming/home entertainment system hooked up to my HD Tv, works with my ipad 4 might be interesting.

The main reason Id like see this happen, Better more quality type games, perhaps only exclusive to apple. As much as I still like both Sony/Microsoft.
So many console/PC games we're so disappointing and/or had more bug and glitches, seems many games companies just do not care anymore other then getting your money from your wallet. Like Gaming companies like EA.

EA was voted the worst gaming company of 2013.

(Example the SlimCity I wish I never bought. / AC3, good game, but had so many glitches on pc/Ps3/xbox side))

Apple console might be interesting to see if had decent Intel CPU with good
GPU or GPU/CPU system. id love see Apple console with Intel Cpu/ and Nvidia GPU system.. Could they make something like that for under $500 that the gamers/consumers would jump on? Who knows..

But currently, iOs/Apple as game killer? *Shrugs* they are doing prety well now as causal games now, who is say it don't get better and/or move into more hard core games in the future..
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Old 2013-07-15, 12:33 AM   #44
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Apple very well could move into the gaming world, They could get a good deal on Intel i5 or i7 cpu with decent Nvidia GPU that could kick ps4/xbox one but if they wanted too.
This is a fun game of "make a cheap gaming PC that is better than next-gen consoles".

As a reference, the GPU in the PS3 is almost exactly the power of a Radeon 7770, and the Xbox One has a Radeon 7750. Checking NCIX I can find a 7770 for $119.99 (with free shipping!)

The AMD CPU in the next gen console has a lot of cores, but each core is a very slow core. They're better than Intel Atom cores, but not by much. Each core in a Ivy Bridge processor would be "worth" about 4-5 of the AMD cores going into the consoles, so a dual-core Core i3 would be more than enough to slap around the CPUs in the Xbox One and the PS4 in almost any scenario.

The memory in the PS4 is GDDR 5. This means it has very high bandwidth, but is extremely high latency. For certain applications this is good (e.g. video cards), but for more general purpose code this is a very bad thing. This is why high-end PCs don't use GDDR5 for system RAM, and only video cards use it.

But since the next-gen consoles are a unified memory architecture they needed to go with one or the other. So, in the PS4 the CPU took the hit so that the GPU benefits, and in the Xbox One the GPU took the hit so that the CPU benefits.

I guess this is another way of saying not to worry about not having GDDR5 in your gaming PCs system memory, for almost all the code running on your PC (including games) DDR3 is superior, and the graphics card can have its GDDR5. Best of both worlds.

So, when we do the math we get something like this:

CPU: $130 Intel Core i3-3220
Motherboard: $96 (GA-H77-DS3H)
Memory: $90 (8GB DDR3-1600)
Graphics: $130 GeForce GTX 650 Ti (faster than a Radeon 7770)
Storage: $70 Segate 1TB 7200RPM drive
Case: $60 Corsair Carbide 200R
PSU: $50 Corsair CX430M

~$640 worth of parts. It is faster than either next-gen console, but there it doesn't include any game controllers. Also, the Xbox One has the Kinect, which isn't something we can replicate right now with PC parts. But I would have no reservations putting this up against a PS4.

There isn't a tonne of margin on this gear, so I figure it would cost Apple about $500 to put something like this together. But then they would have to sell it at practically zero margin, which is very un-Apple like.
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Old 2013-07-24, 07:10 PM   #45
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I continue to believe the next gen of consoles will be the last.
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