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Old 2012-03-10, 07:41 PM   #16
jvincent
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Maybe my scaling comment wasn't the right one.

Until iOS apps are developed using DirectX11 (or whatever we're up to now) or equivalent shading/rendering engines then there is no way that the embedded GPU in the A5X is even close to having the capability of current gaming GPU.

A quick check shows that the GPU for the Xbox 360 has a dedicated 500MHz bus for just the graphics engine. Not sure about the width of it but I'd guess it's at least 128 bits wide, maybe 256. The A5X has a single shared memory interface at 533MHz for both the CPU and the GPU.

Since graphics rendering is all about memory bandwidth, you can see how the Xbox (now 8 years old) has probably twice (or more) the capabilities of the A5X.
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Old 2012-03-11, 12:51 AM   #17
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Carmack basically said in the interview I linked that the Xbox 360 was between 2 and 4 times faster than the iPad 2. I'm sure how much faster is dependant on the benchmark (as always), but whatever. The point is that the product that I'll call iPad 3 is in the same performance ballpark as the Xbox 360. In other words, I'm sure there would be many gaming focused benchmarks where it would beat the 360.

But which "gaming machine" is faster in absolute terms doesn't really matter. What really matters is that they are in the same ballpark now, so mobile gamers can have graphics that are in the same ballpark as they have on their game consoles. Games ported from a current gen game console to a mobile device (well, the iPad 3 specifically) won't be a "poor cousin" graphically of the 360/PS3 version of the game. That is what is significant because we will start to see "straight ports" of games, and that will be interesting for all sorts of reasons - especially when one considers the price of said game on each platform.
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Old 2012-03-11, 03:34 AM   #18
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That's all well and good, but we're not going to see Bioware porting Mass Effect 3 to the iPad any time soon if they have to sell it for 99 cents. Game development is expensive, and would iPad users pay $50 for a quality game? If not, the point is moot as the system would be unsustainable.
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Old 2012-03-11, 01:53 PM   #19
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TorontoColin,

I think that is a poor argument. There are many games being released on the PC that are "free to play" (there are many examples like the latest Tribes, various MMOs, etc). Those games are very expensive to develop, and if they can sustain the free to play model on the PC I'm sure the publishers could sell them for $0.99 on iOS - and still charge for the in-game content - and do just fine.

Like all software the major cost is in the development of a game, not the distribution. If you can sell to more customers you can charge each customer less. If mobile devices "grow the pie" as much as they're expected to over the next few years, then I fully expect software (and game prices) to come down from their historical levels. In fact, I'd say you should count on it.

I think the only reason why customers expect iOS software to be cheap is (currently) the scope of that software is usually way less than what you get on a PC (or console). If iOS software becomes better/more capable, I think the prices can and will go up, and customers will be okay with it. And that can happen when the devices themselves become more capable.
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Old 2012-03-12, 11:44 AM   #20
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The thing is, the new ipad is just catching up to machines that are 6 and 7 years old. With the release of new consoles in the near future, it will again be significantly behind...for the time being. With the release of new ipads (and other tablets) all the time, they have a better opportunity to be constantly upgraded with better processing and graphics chips. So in a few years, tablets will most likely catch up to these new consoles faster than we may think.

The biggest problem I see with tablet gaming is space. It will be hard to have a collection of console sized games that take up 10-20-30 gb (or more) on the limited space of a tablet, unless you wish to dedicate an sd card to each game, of which you couldn't do with the ipad anyway unless Apple smartens up about this.
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Old 2012-03-12, 01:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audacity View Post
There are many games being released on the PC that are "free to play" (there are many examples like the latest Tribes, various MMOs, etc).
Sure, but 99% if not all of those games are either online or ad-supported or both. Bioware already charges for expansion in-game content in addition to the $60 up front. Do you think that if they sold their game for, say $10, and then charged for in-game content that they could make the same money they make now?

Expansion content is one thing, but I don't want to buy games where I have to pay more to unlock half the features, and I don't want to play ad-supported games if the ad interrupts my experience. I can't be the only one who feels this way, and as long as there are enough people like me, console gaming will continue to exist, unless the iOS ecosystem dramatically adjusts.
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Old 2012-03-12, 05:18 PM   #22
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I don't think IOS will kill off console gaming, but it will seriously hurt the profits of PS3 and XBOX 360. If it hasn't already. IMO, IOS does not have to try and match the graphics and processing power of consoles to bite into their profits. They just have to offer an enjoyable experience. Look how good the Wii did, during the early years, against PS3 and XBOX 360. The performance of the Wii didn't come close to the other two, but it still outsold them. The Wii offered the fun factor that the majority of casual gamers enjoyed. This is what IOS does, it offers a fun gaming experience, which is mobile. This fun factor and mobility will and does appeal to a lot of people.

Since I have had my iPhone, I haven't touched my PS3 for gaming. I used to be a hard core gamer, but now I just like to play casually, and wherever I fee like it. I am not confined to my games room to play games. Now that I have an iPad, I am really enjoying that device for gaming.
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Old 2012-03-12, 05:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshel101 View Post
This is what IOS does, it offers a fun gaming experience, which is mobile.
The PS3 and 360 are not mobile devices. A PS3 game is on a Blu-ray disc, which can hold 50gb.
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Old 2012-03-12, 05:50 PM   #24
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Umm, and how is that related to my post? I never said the PS3 and XBOX are mobile.
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Old 2012-03-12, 06:24 PM   #25
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Interestingly, this just published.

Quote:
Capps (Epic Games)also took part in an interview with Reuters that was published on Monday, in which he spoke of the possibility of a Bluetooth controller being developed for the iPad. With a hypothetical controller combined with AirPlay and an Apple TV, he believes Apple could challenge Microsoft's Xbox and Sony's PlayStation platforms for the home console gaming market.

"It's quite easy to imagine a world where an iPad is more powerful than a home console, where it wirelessly talks to your TV and wirelessly talks to your controller and becomes your new console," Capps said.
Quote:
"When the iPad gets to the processing power that's equal to an Xbox 360 and it connects to a television, that's no big deal to us — we'll put the game through the iPad and have it display through the television," said Frank Gibeau, president of Electronic Arts' Labels.
Also, I wanted to point out that my OP wasn't challenging whether the iPad2 or iPad3 has the same technical horsepower as current-generation consoles, but more about whether the technology on its current trajectory, the sales penetration and the shift to ultra-mobile computing (tablet/smartphone) could threaten traditional consoles.
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Old 2012-03-13, 10:20 AM   #26
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well that's fine, but the console makers will also be souping up their rigs


iOS will be the marketleader for Angry Birds

anyone that wants a real game will still buy a console
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Old 2012-03-13, 10:34 AM   #27
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IMO, there are a lot of good games besides Angry Birds out there for IOS. I can also see much better games coming out when the iPad 3 is launched. As it has been mentioned in this thread, who really cares how much the consoles soup up their boxes. It comes down to what the majority of the buying public wants. The fact of the matter is the majority of people who play games are not hard core gamers that need the most powerful PC or consoles to play on.
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Old 2012-03-13, 10:53 AM   #28
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Regardless of how many good games are available for smartphones and tablets, these are still mobile devices and i'm sure the mobile industry is suffering.

People buy consoles to play games on a big screen. The Ipad has a very small screen.
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Old 2012-03-13, 11:15 AM   #29
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The iPad can easily have a mirror display on an HDTV. However Cook's comments are still pretty misleading.

Right now it's the difference between playing a 99 cent game on a $700 tablet vs. a $60 game on a $150 console. It doesn't make much sense. Angry Birds vs. Skyrim? You can make guesses about the future all you want, but we're nowhere near that now. It will only become relevant when similar games come out for both platforms. PS3/360 vs. PC gaming is in this realm today.

Don't forget that nothing compares to Kinect/Move/Wii on a tablet either.
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Old 2012-03-13, 11:29 AM   #30
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Curious how you think the mobile industry is suffering? Very far from it. I don't know the statistics, but I am sure the mobile industry makes far more money than the console gaming industry. Sorry for going off-topic.

You are right, people do buy games to play on big screens, but there are less people buying these games, and more buying game apps for IOS. A good game for XBOX, or PS3 is around $50. A really good game for iPad is less than $10. So with this and the mobility factor, the iPad will give the consoles a run for their money.

I mentioned before the success of the Wii, against XBOX and PS3. The majority of people didn't care the Wii didn't match the power of the other two. They didn't care they couldn't get HD gaming on their big screen. They had fun, and that is what will enable IOS to be popular for gaming.
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