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Old 2012-02-22, 10:54 AM   #1
mrvanwinkles
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Default Paper vs On-line statements

Looks like the TD Canada Trust Bank - Toronto Dominion Canada Trust bank - is starting to charge a monthly fee now if you want to have a hard copy, paper bank account statement mailed to you.

I received a notice with a recent bank statement from my TD chequing account.

There's a little insert flyer with a table showing some different Chequing and Savings account types, and the "Changes to Monthly Recordkeeping Fees".


Basically ...
It looks like starting April 1, 2012 - there's gonna be a $2.00 per month fee if you want to continue to receive a hard copy paper bank statement mailed to you.

Prior to that, if you kept some minimum amount in your account, the fee was waived.

By the looks of it, that will no longer apply, and the "waived fee" is gone, no miniumum balance anymore to avoid the fee.


Looks like no matter what, in those particular chequing and savings accounts, you'll be paying the $2.00 / month fee - for the priviledge of getting a paper bank statement mailed to you.

They invite you to go "Paperless Record Keeping" or "Free Online Statements"

To me ... a hard copy of your monthly statement is a pretty important and pretty basic function of a bank account. Esp. a chequing account, where you likely do most of your banking transactions.

And now the Bank wants to charge me a monthly fee for that "priviledge".

And what next? In 6 months time, the fee goes up a dollar. And another dollar in another 6 months?

And there is little or no interest paid anyway in those accounts.

Not too impressed.

Seems other banks are going the same way.

Anyway ... just wanted to mention ... and see what others thought.

What'dya think?
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Old 2012-02-22, 10:59 AM   #2
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I will be telling them to shove that...dang. I'm sick of them changing my accounts and upping the fees...with no prior notice. They have done this several times and now they don't even want to send me a monthly statement anymore?

I guess I will now have to op out of this monthly statement too...well it was useless anyway considering by the time I got it it was already a week or 2 old.

I refuse to give them any money in fees...but they keep coming up with clever new ways to get into my wallet....they must have a whole department dedicated to this.
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Old 2012-02-22, 01:23 PM   #3
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I have used the paperless option for a long time. TD allows you to save statements on their website, you can download them to your computer. Paper or otherwise I use Quicken to reconcile statements monthly and while errors have been few there have been errors.

I was talking to a friend today and he commented that his bank had made an error in a TFSA calculation, discovered it 18 months later and then deleted all references to the error from his account. The only reason he knew was because he had the paper records.
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Old 2012-02-22, 02:05 PM   #4
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I got that letter too. They are also increasing Safe Deposit Box fees, and fees to get additional keys from $4.95 to $50. (over 1000%)

I left the TD Bank before, after they drained my account to pay a relatives loan, then bounced cheques, locked my account down and sent me huge fees for all of this, then when they realized their mistake they reversed everything but never apologized.

I think this will cost them many customers, I took me nearly 20 years before I came back, I doubt I will be saying, "I will be back!" this time!
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Old 2012-02-22, 02:23 PM   #5
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Honestly, I don't know why anyone with a computer and internet access would want to receive statements in this day and age. Paperless statements for everything can't come quickly enough for me.
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Old 2012-02-22, 02:39 PM   #6
billpaidJr
 
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Well because some of us choose to not use online banking. When they start charging you 2 dollars to email you a statement...we will see how you feel about it then.

This is about things that have always been included with our accounts that are being taken away with no value added to us.

It is not about how inconvenient it is to have a paper copy of transactions.
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Old 2012-02-22, 02:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post
Honestly, I don't know why anyone with a computer and internet access would want to receive statements in this day and age. Paperless statements for everything can't come quickly enough for me.
I am the same, anytime I can switch to paperless, I switch, if one requires a hard copy one could print them out.

Although I am not sure what will happen in the future, my wife is totally computer illiterate, strange this day and age but I guess everyone is different.
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Old 2012-02-22, 03:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billpaidJr View Post
...This is about things that have always been included with our accounts that are being taken away with no value added to us.

It is not about how inconvenient it is to have a paper copy of transactions.
To me, it is just the nature of change. It is a natural progression from one format to another. Each company has a required Return on Equity to achieve from each customer, and if reaching that target requires charging more for services, then so be it. You are certainly free to move financial institutions.
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Old 2012-02-22, 03:30 PM   #9
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I understand things change..but when it was an included part of the account (one which they touted as a feature) then gets taken away its frustrating.

We are getting less and less services while the banks continue to find ways to squeeze out their customers for everything. All the banks are doing it...so its not as simple as "switching banks".

Maybe I sound like the old guys in their commercials but we keep getting less and less services and fees keep going up and up. Then the record profit reports show up next quarter...gee it must be from all the satisfied customers they have.

Why all of a sudden a 2 dollar charge is justifiable...why not 50 cents or a dollar?

Pretty soon they will be charging people for online access to their accounts it is just a matter of time.
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Old 2012-02-22, 04:24 PM   #10
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Actually BillpaidJr I think the next thing will be to get rid of cheques altogether. The UK banks started on that for a 2018 date and have benn told not to...but I am sure they will try again, cheque processing is expensive. Don't know about you but I only write 2 or 3 a year now.
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Old 2012-02-22, 04:41 PM   #11
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I also don't write many cheques, I just don't have the need to.

I also don't use the debit cards....for much the same reason I don't online bank...the security is still a question mark and when a bad guy gets direct access to your bank accounts...good luck trying to fix that mess.

Just because it is secure today does not mean it will be secure tomorrow.

I am going to inquire at the bank if there is a way to get the statement emailed for free without doing online banking with them.
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Old 2012-02-22, 05:39 PM   #12
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Wow, you guys are so lucky you don't have a business account. I paid fees of $543.50 last year, just to make an average of 40-50 deposits and 40-50 withdrawals per month. That's in addition to the $1881 in fees to process credit cards. I'm sure many of us are old enough to remember when we used to get paid to keep money in a bank!
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Old 2012-02-22, 10:24 PM   #13
mrvanwinkles
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Default Yes ...I am genuinely concerned about these matters.

For myself, the hard copy paper statement that the bank itself mails to me from my chequing account - my main personal working account - forms an official document that I can refer to, present to various institutions (like Revenue Canada / the Federal Government ) if necessary, and file away and keep for future reference.

I have some important things "linked" to this account. As I am sure many others do. Changing to a different bank / account type may be alot of effort.

Internet banking and bill payment from this account certainly helps make these tasks more convenient. (lest we go back to paying all bills by mail and cheque). Security concerns with internet banking are always on my mind.

It is extra trouble and work for me to have to start to work with online statements or electronic statements.

TD Canada Trust has a large network of TD Green Machine bank machines which make getting some cash easy and convenient. And when set up - I can pay my bills easily at the TD Green Machine - just like internet banking.

Usually I am not using my TD Green Card as a Debit card / for debit card transactions. Only in emergencies, or when other methods are not practical, or when a credit card is not possible [security concerns for stores and local vendors or gas stations etc]

Small purchases are usually cash only for me [security and privacy of information concerns with the plastic].

However, the plastic is getting "more secure" with the introduction of more and more CHIP cards. My TD Green card is a chip card now. So are most credit cards.

I guess the point I am trying to make is:

That printed bank statement is a VERY important document to me.

I am so SAD that the banks feel they need to charge me for it now. I maintain enough of a balance in that account and gain (practically) no interest from that account.

Changing to a different bank will be a difficult exercise. And even if I do go to the trouble ... it may only be a matter of time before that bank starts to charge for it as well.

A small fee like $2 / month is not unreasonable for that important bank statement ... however I am VERY concerned this FEE will quickly increase in a very short time - and that the BANKs may start to rely on this fee as a source of PROFIT from us poor little personal account holders.

I actually think this is a very serious matter.

I did some quick research on the internet:

Seems like ScotiaBank has maybe a $1.00 / month fee on some cheq accounts.

Bank of Montreal may still have some chq accounts with no fee for a minimum balance.

[Getting rid of cheques altogether, as mentioned by an earlier poster - I certainly hope *NOT*. I certainly wish to retain, in society, a hard copy, simple and easy, non-electronic method, to write someone a cheque (!)]

[And yes, I think these issues are important enough issues, that the Government should take an interest in these matters, and consider rules and regulations. These matters do affect society - may have large implications for the future / how society functions in the future.]

Is Government Regulation in these matters required ?

I'm genuinely concerned ...
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Old 2012-02-23, 11:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post
Honestly, I don't know why anyone with a computer and internet access would want to receive statements in this day and age. Paperless statements for everything can't come quickly enough for me.
Because I certainly don't want to go buy a printer to print them myself.

Royal only seems to keep statements for a short period of time - 7 years I believe.

Don't know why the banks pushed everyone to convert from bankbooks to statements, then start charging for statements. Seems asinine
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Old 2012-02-24, 06:21 AM   #15
mrvanwinkles
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I think I read TD will allow you to go back 18 months on their system.
(and I think that is right ... because I looked back as far as I could on one TD account, and could only go back that far.)

That's only a year and a half (!)

Gov't may require you to keep records for 7 years.

So if you keep electronic records / soft copies of your own statements - which you might have to do. You'd better back those up on some media like a disc, and save separately in a safe spot. Cause if your hard drive or PC dies - you could lose that important financial data.

And what's to say that whatever computer format / file type they provide that information in - won't go out of date. Then you'll need some old special software, just to read it. Maybe even some old hardware just to run that old software just to read it.

This stuff goes out of date and changes very quickly now a'days.

I don't even want to go there.

What about people manipulating, electronically, their own statements, and presenting them as real? Fraud?


So Yes - I would also recommend - better print out your own hard copies each month and save, same as before.


All this creates more work and more issues for everyone.


If Royal will keep your online statements for 7 years, and accessible to you, that's pretty good / pretty long.

About Passbooks - they could be a partial option - some banks mentioned that they will allow a certian number of passbook updates per month at no charge. Passbooks might be OK for people with a smaller number of transactions per month.

Passbooks seem to work better in SAVINGS accounts - where there's not a lot of monthly activity - maybe only a few lines each month.

But ya ... you've got to look at the various banks and options now, I think.
What might work for you as an individual.
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