New Firmware / (HD) IPG for 8642, 4642 Discussions - Read Post 1 and Links There

[Holmes108]

I agree viper. There is going to be problems, and the firmware is far from perfect... but that being said, most of the most major issues seem to be worked out for most of the people.

You can't go by what is essentially a tech support forum (either here, or at Rogers) and extrapolate how good the software currently is. Generally, these major bugs are affecting a very vocal minority (and they have a right to be vocal).

Think about it, who goes onto the internet to talk about how happy they are with the firmware of their electronics? People do write ups when things aren't working.

I'm not trying to play down peoples issues. I believe some of you are having real problems. I just don't like the posts that seem to suggest that the issues being experienced are the norm. Some even make it sound like 100% of the boxes are behaving the same way. The context of posts like that are likely just a by product of the anger, and I understand. But it's not really fair to Rogers, and may give other people the wrong idea about how widespread the bugs really are.

[icemankent]

Well, Rogers is not going to get any sympathy from me.

They chose to roll this new firmware out - knowing full well that it was not ready for prime time - and quite frankly, it still isn't ready and graces me with frustration - daily.

That in and of itself should tell you how much they care about their actual customers.

Defend them if you wish - but I will not give them any benefits of doubt on this.

[proxy99]

Fed up with constant random and scheduled reboots, unbearable slowness and unresponsiveness, missed recordings (box sometimes "refuses" or ignores recordings scheduled or ad hoc...!?), inability to turn CC on on some channels, blank IPG (!!!) when scrolling up/down or sideways (I don't see what I'm scrolling, did I miss something?) to name a few I decided to go back to SARA and I'm not planning to change that any time soon. NEXTBOX new firmware is a miss... (who designed that?), I couldn't take it anymore.

It was supposed to bring everything to a new level, turned out much lower then the previous one. The only benefit was the The Logo was of higher quality and in better color...
Btw. the use of the screen space... awkward. Access to menus questionable. Info/status screens stay on way too long obstructing 1/4 of the screen until you exit manually, gosh... there is so much to talk about it's scary. Most TV menus are designed better. It almost looks like an act of sabotage... I have the impression that menu design was the utmost goal, tool and weapon aimed at keeping a crowd in amazement, an ultimate, irrefutable proof of progress... well, it failed to do so... a horrible combination of overblown GUI design and lack of functionality to go with it. Worse yet, it looks like the system cannot keep up... lacking the processing power, IPG being an example.
SARA is ugly and primitive but it is quick and does what you want it to do. The new one, whatever it is called, doesn't even come close. Some very new and unaccustomed users may even wonder about what is being said here, they'll probably never grasp it but those who had experience with 8300HD know full well that new FW is a plain disaster when it comes to functionality. One works and the other just pretends to...
It is where it belongs... flushed. I'm disappointed. The good thing is you actually can run NEXTBOX on SARA, imagine if you couldn't... brrrrr.

PS. I second all remarks about bad design and implementation of new software brought up in the posts above. This is no accident, it is a plainly poor design that should have never seen the sunlight until fully tested. My box was restored to factory settings and I like it that way (this is all it takes for it to go back to SARA, another issue is to block the updates...).

[neilpalmer400]

Homes108,

Well with many issues 100% of the boxes ARE behaving the same way.
ALL the boxes with the new IPG have had slow motion/frame advance/frame backspace removed. ALL the boxes with the new IPG now have a useless Zoom function that won't properly stretch/zoom letterboxed &/or pillarboxed recordings. All the boxes with the new IPG have lost the timer function to turn off the box at bedtime, etc. etc.

[Fraoch]

I searched for this subject several times in this forum and didn't find anything new (which is surprising) but anyway...

Got a letter today from Rogers stating that the new IPG is here. I remember receiving something similar about 6 months ago, looked on this forum, and found threads about all the problems this new IPG caused, up to and including bricking units.

Since there seem to be no new posts about it, is it safe now? Should I go for it?

The old guide looks like crap but at least it works and at least it's ad-free. Is the new one covered in ads? I seem to recall they put in some sort of new start screen a few years ago that came up when the guide button was pushed and it was laden with ads.

I have a Cisco 4642HD.

Forgive me if this has been covered recently but I did search and didn't find anything.

Thank you.

[neilpalmer400]

The day before Rogers came I had this additional problem:
- playing back Conan (while still recording from Ch. 518-CTVSH 01:05-02:10). Scanning through a commercial the image froze while audio continued to play. Pause, Rewind, Fast Forward etc. still worked, but only affected audio (image from commercial remained frozen on video). Had to press Stop, then select Resume (Play) to get the video to work again. I also had the video freeze playing back another program (the fast forward/rewind/pause/play all continued to affect the audio, but the video remained frozen until I stopped playback and started again).

Rogers tech (well, contract installer) came June 7. Here's an update on that.
He ended up being here around 3 hours. He measured signal strength at the entry point inside the house, before the first splitter, and then out at the demarc point outside the house from the incoming RG-11 cable (heavy duty due to length of run). He as going to replace the (buried) cable from the demarc to inside the house and "nail" it to the brickwork (because he said the installers don;t have access to the silicone treated cable for burial and he couldn't get any easily), so I suggested he run a temporary cable into the house and I disconnected the dryer vent so we could run the cable into the house. He checked and the signal strength was no better than the old buried cable. At that point he called in a Rogers tech who went down the street and increased the strength at the neighbourhood amp (he said the signal strength at my place was down at least 3 dB from the neighbours). He also gave the installer a booster amp for the house (another thing the contract installers don't have access to themselves) which was installed in the house for the digital video boxes only (i.e. after the splitter that fed the line for Internet & Home Phone).

Before the tech left I I checked both 8642's and verified signal strength in the diagnostics
(before the service call I had looked only at the Tuner diagnostics, and they were from around -12.0 dBmV to -15.0 dBmV) and SNR 32.0 to 35.0 dB):

LIVING ROOM PVR (new IPG)
Tuner 1: Frequency 465.000 Mhz, Power +5.0 dBmV, SNR 36.0 dB
Tuner 2: Frequency 561.000 Mhz, Power +4.0 dBmV, SNR 36.0 dB
FDC: 73.00 Mhz 4 dBmV
RDC: 19.00 Mhz 42 dBmV

BASEMENT PVR (new IPG)
Tuner 1: Frequency 855.000 Mhz, Power +2.0 dBmV, SNR 34.0 dB
Tuner 2: Frequency 561.000 Mhz, Power +4.0 dBmV, SNR 35.0 dB
FDC: 73.00 Mhz 3 dBmV
RDC: 19.00 Mhz 45 dBmV

I also verified that the external 1TB drives were recognized on BOTH 8642's (went into diagnostic mode and saw the external drive was showing internal Drive 0 as 312,046,936 bytes on one 8642 and 155,766,616 bytes on the other 8642, and external Drive 1 as 976,762,584 bytes on both 8642's).

I reprogrammed all my timer recordings, and both 8642's started recording as scheduled, and with Whole Home PVR verified I could successfully play programs on one 8642 from the other, and from both 8642's on t he4642.

After the service call I found these issues:

- one 8642 must have rebooted at 03:40, or else The Daily Show (03:05-03:25 on Ch, 571-HCTVV, but set to record 30 minutes later (not 5 minutes later) stopped recording at 03:40).

- * for search on BOTH 8642's, enter the first few letters of the search and get error message "Sorry, Search has encountered a problem. Please re-enter your requ". (Yes, "Request" is cut off).
Search works find on the 4642. (Waited over 24 hours and checked again, search still worked only on 4642, not the two 8642's, when I checked the next day just under 48 hours after they were connected the search finally worked).

- the next day after the two 8642's were replaced, I turned on one (the one that appears to have rebooted around 03:40) and saw the message:
- Attention
You connected a new external storage device. Would you like to reformat it so the PVR can storage (YES - "storage", not "store") recordings on it?
PLEASE NOTE: All data on the device will be erased if you reformat it.
YES, reformat the external device (default selection)
No, do NOT reformat the external devi. (YES, devi - the message doesn't display the whole word "Device").


Naturally I selected NO and checked that my recordings were still present. They were.
AND the diagnostics showed, as yesterday, that the external drive was connected (but apparently the 8642 was NOT using it for recordings).
After speaking to a second level tech I decided to watch the recorded programs I had on the drive then rebooted it, and this time selected Yes to format the external drive. The usage percentage dropped from 7.8% to 2% (this 8642 has a 320 GB internal drive) and the recordings were retained, so despite the fact the external drive had been connected ever since it was first powered on, it didn't recognize it until after the initial reboot, and after the update from SARA to RTN and another reboot.

I called in to Rogers to complain yet again and after describing the problem with the external drive now saying it was new and was asking to format he asked what drive I had, I said it was a Rogers sold Seagate 1TB unit. He asked if it was black or silver. When I said silver he said it was a known problem with those drives. I said in that case they can send someone out to replace both my 1TB drives with new ones. Naturally he didn't have authority to do that so I asked to speak to a manager. After that I ended up talking to a second level tech. Says after a box replacement search usually works within 24 hours, though sometimes takes 48 hours. We also discussed the compatibility issues with older external Seagate 1TB drives and he said basically the known issue was with 8300's being unable to play back recordings occasionally (I experienced that personally, several times, until I went out and got 8642's to replace them). He said there were a few reports of a similar problem with 8642's back around March-May 2011 (of course that was with SARA firmware) but nothing recently.

[ecarlino016]

neil,

I installed 8642 for my father-in-law with a brand new unit from futureshop....it had all sorts of issues. It was the older unit with 160gb.

I replaced it with the 500gb version and all problems are removed. I know that my issues were not the result of signal issues. I have come to a personal conclusion that you should only accept the 500gb versions.

Even futureshop only offers the 500gb version. Cisco has quietly discontinued the lesser models.

I suggest you call rogers and insist on only the 500gb versions.

EC

[ecarlino016]

I can confirm that the tv call display is still not working on 8642s but I would like to call attention to the TV Call display for the 8300hd was recently updated to look similat to the ui on the cisco units.

The colour scheme is now black and grey similar to the 8642 I have upstairs.
(my 8300 is downstairs)

Im suggesting a rumour that an inclusion for the 8642 may be on the way. no hard evidence but lots of circumstancial.

Cheers,
EC

[viper359]

Proxy99: "The good thing is you actually can run NEXTBOX on SARA, imagine if you couldn't... brrrrr." <---- Where did you hear this? To the best of my knowledge, the whole home pvr is not able to run on SARA, hence why all the cable co's had to switch.


I am not defending Rogers, but, I don't blame them for the most part. This crap falls directly at the feet of Cisco and their IPG partner. They wrote the firmware, and their support has been pure garbage. You need only have some recent new Cisco small business and home products to know about their firmware garbage they have released, and their lack of support for it. I have one router they have buggered since day one, it took them almost 8 months to acknowledge and release an update for it. I have an ATA device that was working fine, until they released an update that had a bug in it, that caused many users major headaches, forcing them to run around and update server software for their VOIP because Cisco did a dumb dumb and didn't even know it.

Cisco and their support, if it can even be called that, is garbage now. This company is going downhill faster than a skier. Rogers can only do so much, since they never actually wrote the firmware. They are taking the heat, which I am willing to bet, they are screaming at Cisco, but, I am sure its falling on deaf ears, if it is like anything as of late from Cisco.

So yes, its Roger's fault for releasing this POS before it was ready, but I also don't think they saw how bad this was going to get, and how quick it was. I am also sure the salesmen at Cisco assured Rogers great tech support, and a quick resolution to any issues they do have.

[alebowgm]

Originally Posted by viper359

Proxy99: "The good thing is you actually can run NEXTBOX on SARA, imagine if you couldn't... brrrrr." <---- Where did you hear this? To the best of my knowledge, the whole home pvr is not able to run on SARA, hence why all the cable co's had to switch.

I think the reference was made to the fact that the 8642HD (which many just know by the name NEXTBOX) is able to run SARA. Not the fact that the Whole Home Solution can only run on the new firmware.

[yyzlhr]

@viper359

I whole heartedly agree with your assessment of the situation. Looks like Rogers got a taste of its own medicine.

[proxy99]

ALEBOWGM: "I think the reference was made to the fact that the 8642HD (which many just know by the name NEXTBOX) is able to run SARA. Not the fact that the Whole Home Solution can only run on the new firmware."

Yep, this is correct. I'm happy that I could fallback on SARA. It's running fine just like 8300HD (using both...). Definitely prefer SARA then new FW. At least it's predictable.
It may very well be the case that it's all Cisco's fault, all points to that since the device behaves strangely under new FW while it seems fine with SARA. I doubt that Rogers was involved in developing/rewriting it. If they trusted Cisco too soon they got what they asked for. There's always a question of implementation on Rogers part... but we can only guess. Al least with CC I'm pretty sure it's Rogers end, some programs which run CC on 8300HD don't display CC icon on 8642 like it's not available. 2 diff. boxes, 2 diff. options, this can't be the box alone or FW.
Interesting that several times 8642 didn't accept the recording of program in progress (you watch it , gets interesting and you want to keep it... didn't work).
But I especially disliked a lag between a button push and the execution. I noticed that immediately after first try. The box behaves like a computer with not enough memory, you can see it needs more time to process commands. Very annoying.

[icemankent]

I keep telling myself (every day) that I will wait to see what the "next" firmware update fixes - "before" I take the leap to revert back to the SARA firmware.

I am still waiting for that "next" firmware update. . .

When it eventually does come - and if it still sucks, I will sacrifice my recordings and revert back to the old firmware.
Watching what you recorded should not be such a collossal headache.

[m3repair]

I myself am waiting before I leep onto the boat, when the firmware is a least stable enought to use without too many reboots all possibly jump on board, but with everyone here saying that it isn't the most stable perhaps its still best to wait it out instead of running through headaches unless you can handle them!

[proxy99]

I'm actually beginning to wonder about the whole firmware business. SA and Cisco developed it for several markets and cable providers. They also must have developed a SDK to allow customizations due to the above.
The question is to what extent Rogers and other cable companies modded or customized the software. It is not firmware per se as it's frequently updated, stored on HDD, linux based and doesn't seem to be a one unified instruction set. It's more of a operating system. Some may call it firmware but it looks like a FW + customizable software combo to which cable providers have a key, SDK tools and developers. You'd expect that FW would be updated on rare occasions but this one seems to need a constant, almost daily feed (beside IPG). Something is not exactly the way it seems to be portrayed here. In that respect Viper359 I'm not exactly sure that all blame should go to Cisco, this could be very unfair to Rogers...