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Old 2012-02-07, 09:39 AM   #31
odourboy
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Greetings all! A newbie here.

My question is about lightning protection. Is it required for an attic installation?

I'm in a relatively new house (7 years old) in south Mississauga. There is no chimney and the metal roof vents exit a few feet below the highest point of my antenna - which is near the peak. I don't know much about lightning protection - if current building codes require anything on the roof or not.. Also, at the moment (I just put the antenna up yesterday - two 4-bay in a stacked configuration) the coax is not grounded anywhere (except perhaps at my TV). Do I need to ground the coax shielding? Do I need lightning protection?

Thanks!

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Old 2012-02-07, 07:04 PM   #32
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odourboy, welcome to the forums. I address your question in post #816 of the Grounding Info & Standards thread. Cheers.
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Old 2012-02-07, 07:29 PM   #33
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Perfect! Thanks Jase88
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Old 2012-02-11, 11:44 PM   #34
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Looking at doing an attic install at my mother's place in Markham.

She's in a townhouse so in a southern direction the roofs of her neighbours are all peaked in a row like this: ^^^^^^^

How bad is that for reception? I mean, obviously the signals are not heading to her place at 2nd storey height, but how bad are all those other roofs? She wouldn't have a long coax run at all. Plan to go through the ceiling access door straight into an HDHomerun which will network into a MythTV setup.

Just asking because I get 20 channels reflecting off a building north of me so I'm an optimist.
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Old 2012-02-12, 12:10 AM   #35
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Obviously getting the antenna as high in the attic as possible is desirable. Note that land elevation slops upward slowly from the lake. Being in Markham, you're likely above most of Toronto to the south, which should assist in reception. You may run into issues if high-rise buildings block LOS to Buffalo or the CN Tower...
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Old 2012-02-12, 12:27 AM   #36
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How close do the high-rise buildings have to be to be a problem? She's up near Markham-Stouffvile Hospital, so apart from the Hospital it's two-storey subdivisions for miles.
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Old 2012-02-12, 04:40 PM   #37
roger1818
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^^^It depends on what physical channel you are trying to receive. VHF will detract around objects better than UHF and within UHF, channel 14 will diffract better than channel 51. The distance is also related to how strong the signal was (before it hit the building) as you can get away with less diffraction with a stronger signal than with a weaker one.

See HDTV Primer for an explanation of and some interesting pictures showing diffraction.
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Old 2012-02-13, 07:03 PM   #38
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I have an attic install with a quad bowtie facing south and a log periodic facing north to catch both towers in the Ottawa area. My question is - Why do I get good results on Global channel 6 when both antennas are UHF classified? Is this just one of those strange RF things due to surroundings? I was expecting to have to do some gymnastics with NARODS to get Global.

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Old 2012-02-13, 08:24 PM   #39
roger1818
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Techno_Dweeb, Without seeing your TVFool results it is difficult to say but in South Keys you are likely getting a signal that is about 20dB (100 times) as strong as those in say Orleans. The thing about DTV is it is pretty much all or nothing and you will either get a perfect picture or none at all with not much in between. What a better antenna will give you is more reliable reception.
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Old 2012-02-13, 11:13 PM   #40
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Thanks for the response. I was thinking perhaps my 10 foot roof flashing might be acting like a director.
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Old 2012-02-14, 10:45 AM   #41
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From post # 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1818
Type of roof and/or siding.
Equipment used (antenna, preamp, etc)
approx. direction antenna is pointing.
Yes, thanks Roger, those are all good ideas in your earlier post.

Specifically, the type and thickness of building materials the signal(s) are going through before they reach the attic antenna will be important to note.

For example: In the attic in Kingston, depending on where the signal is coming from and where I place an antenna in the attic, the signal could possibly go through a vertical clay brick wall on two sides of the attic, or a different signal might go through an angled part of the roof with wood frame construction and asphalt shingles.

And then there's aluminum siding on the gables, the soffit, and the eaves, and the eaves troughs ... and this metal has major effects around these areas.

So there's lots to consider with "building materials" in the path of the signal.

( a member mentioned earlier/good point ... if you have TWO layers of shingles on the roof ... that likely causes more signal loss - makes sense )

Regarding: Direction the Antenna is pointing ... YA ... for sure.

Because with Attic setups, with beams and timbers, other obstructions, and space limitations in the attic ... One might *NOT* physically be able to point the antenna exactly straight at the transmitter.

The antenna might be pointed OFF at some angle.

Also ... pointing might be OFF as you may be inside a CLOSED space in the attic and can not see outside for any reference points to aim correctly.

And so YA ... that might be a real important one to note ... if not pointed exactly at the transmitter - a probable situation in the attic.

[ So that makes trial and error to find the BEST / Most powerful signal location and aiming more useful - or - as suggested earlier - the use of a SIGNAL meter of some kind like a portable SPECTRUM ANALYSER ... don't we all wish ... ]


I can think of another one ... Weather conditions: SNOW or ICE on the roof.
Or RAINING / water running off roof. Recent RAIN / roof or wall materials still wet or damp.

What happens when an antenna is inside - like in an ATTIC - is all complex and affected by many things.

Stay tuned ... this thread will get really interesting ...
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Old 2012-02-14, 10:57 AM   #42
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From Post #22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase88
Obviously getting the antenna as high in the attic as possible is desirable.
mmmm... Maybe ... but not always.

I would be careful with this assumption.

I did some experiments of my own in the attic, and found that going higher in the attic, near the peak, in my case, lead to worse results in my case.

I seemed to get best results just a foot or so above the attic floor beams ...
(and I could go another 4 feet up to the peak inside the attic. The whole attic maybe 5 ft high at the highest point.)

After 1 foot up, the signals got slowly weaker - fading out to very little signal at the highest point - right in the peak. I suspect this had to do with the shape of the roof and the building materials getting near to the antenna at the peak - even if the antenna itself was higher ...

Near the floor of the attic - very poor results.
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Old 2012-02-14, 12:09 PM   #43
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Quote:
pointing might be OFF as you may be inside a CLOSED space in the attic and can not see outside for any reference points to aim correctly.
But you can use TV Fool and a good compass . . .
.
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Old 2012-02-14, 01:51 PM   #44
roger1818
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^^^Or as I did, print a satellite view of my house with lines to the transmitters. I then squared the image of my house to the walls and used the lines to indicate what direction to point the antenna.
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Old 2012-02-14, 02:19 PM   #45
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Yes, I used the TVfool direction lines to point my antenna, but found that I had to be off-angle to get best results. Again, this is probably because of roof flashing and other building materials acting as reflectors and directors. Attics are a pain for that reason. I agree with other posters saying keep the antenna away from roof, floor, walls as much as possible.

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