Central/Eastern USA, Gulf Coast, Mexico, Caribbean

[majortom]

jbright,
know there's some time since ur post, and maybe ya won't even read this, but someone else
in the same boat might.
have you considered getting a satellite dish?
sometimes when there's no nearby OTA signals to be had nearby,
ur better off looking to the sky...

Since your interest is in CBS, ur best bet would be a suitable CBAND Dish,
and a new High Def receiver to pull in the CBS Studio Distribution Feeds.

http://digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=57

If your limited to OTA by space constraints, etc. then your going to need the best
equipment. Start with the Antenna Chart.

[dullgeek]

@majortom, thanks for the advice.

Not so much for making me think of David Bowie.

[dullgeek]

As mentioned previously, this is the location that I'm going to be installing my gray hoverman build this week. I'm using this set of instructions. I'm going to be trying w/o a reflector first and then if needed, I'll add the reflector.

Wondering about the wisdom of this. Should I just go straight away w/the reflector?

[dullgeek]

Often times experimenting turns out to be a better way to answer questions than pre-planning. And in my case, that's turned out to be true. I'm going to document what I discovered in case someone else might gain from my experience.

I built a single bay gray hoverman antenna w/o a reflector. I used 8 gauge solid copper for the elements, and attached them to a 24" 1x4 pine board. I read that it's a good idea to insulate the elements from the moisture content of the wood. I did not do this, figuring that if I had problems I could disassemble and apply some electrical tape between the wood and the elements. I then attached some brackets so I could attach it to a mast that I hung from one of the rafters in the attic. The mast was a simple 2' length of 1/2" PVC pipe.

I spent a lot of time experimenting with aiming and location in the attic. The best reception I could find pointed me due west to focus on the stations in that direction which are 25 miles away. The antenna was able to pull in the stations to the south which are only 10 miles away - even though the stations are almost 90 deg off the aiming direction. I didn't expect this. I expected that I was going to have to aim somewhat southwest to pick up both clusters of antennas. If I aimed south, I picked up those towers with roughly 90-100% signal strength, while the west towers were in the 20-30% range. Aiming west put the west towers in the 80-90% range and the south towers at about 50%.

I also discovered how inconvenient the duct work in the attic is. The stuff is covered with reflective silver insulation that pretty effectively blocks signal when it's in the way. Until I discovered this and found a spot that avoided having any ducts between the antenna and both tower clusters I was pretty frustrated.

Anyway, I've answered all of my questions:

1. Aim directly at the west towers, the south towers are close enough
2. Don't need a reflector
3. Don't need to combine two antennas

Thanks for the advice and +1 to the SBGH.

[majortom]

excellent, glad it worked out for ya.

[yatri25]

I am located in between two relatively close tower clusters.
I think I need an omni directional GH (maybe 2 of them) with the NARODs for VHF-HI, but no reflector?

My TV Fool's report is
http://http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d0b8634f0973849

Currently using an RCA ANT-751 R inside without an amp or pre amp. The RCA ANT 751 R is not performing as well as I hoped. For example, reception of WFSB (Digital) Channel: 33 Network: CBS is very intermittent and only 11.7 miles away. I'm willing to buy or build (SBGH?) the best antenna or antennas to receive the most stations.

Hoping to connect 2 TVs. Planning for an attic install.

Which antenna(s) best suit(s) my location?
Do I need a pre amp?
I'm trying to avoid using a rotor or an a/b switch, but I will if that will work best.

Thank you for any help

[HWP]

yatri25,

Welcome to the forum.

I think you'll want a pre-amp no matter what antenna you end up with - especially with an attic installation. Why not get the pre-amp and before you do anything else try it on your existing set-up. It might do the trick.

Do you want to build an antenna? Would you rather buy one? If you want an SBGH, you'll have to build it.

Suggested pre-amps:
1) Winegard 269
2) Channel Master 7778

First I'd add the pre-amp to your RCA antenna and point it south to your southerly stations. See what happens. With a little luck, the pre-amp will help to soldify your stations -- even 33 off the back for CBS.

If it doesn't work, then I might buy an Antennas Direct DB4e (make sure it fits through your attic entrance before you buy). You could combine the two antennas using a reversed two-way splitter and face one in each direction. Keep the pre-amp in use after the combiner/splitter.

I'd also try the DB4e on its own pointing south with the pre-amp.

The two VHF-high stations are the two challenges - rf 11 and 10. Since you have the VIP antenna, you could use the DB4e for UHF and use the VIP for VHF-only and use the pre-amp as your combiner.

If you are done with the VIP then consider a Winegard ya1713 (consider its size before buying), or an Antennacraft y5-7-13 for VHF-high, and the Antennas Direct DB4e for UHF. Again with pre-amp.

My early suspicion is that the pre-amp with your VIP will improve things significantly.

Keep us posted on your progress.

[yatri25]

HWP, hi and thanks for your reply. I have a few questions.

I think you'll want a pre-amp no matter what antenna you end up with - especially with an attic installation. Why not get the pre-amp and before you do anything else try it on your existing set-up. It might do the trick.

Would a bigger antenna, like a horizontally combined pair of SBGHs improve reception as well as or better than a pre-amp?

Do you want to build an antenna?

YES. I'd like to build an SBGH or DBGH (with NARODs) even if it doesn't wind up as part of my final antenna solution. I admire the GH initiative here and want to join in.

Suggested pre-amps:
1) Winegard 269
2) Channel Master 7778

Would the Winegard AP 8275 be better because it adds more gain as stated in the Preamplifier Comparison Chart that was modified by holl_ands from an original chart at Solid Signal?

If it doesn't work, then I might buy an Antennas Direct DB4e (make sure it fits through your attic entrance before you buy).

Ya, the hatch up into the attic is small, only about 2 feet by 2 1/2 feet.

Since you have the VIP antenna, you could use the DB4e for UHF and use the VIP for VHF-only and use the pre-amp as your combiner.

Sorry, don't know what you mean when you refer to the RCA ANT-751 as a VIP antenna?

Thanks for all your thoughts and help
Yatri

[HWP]

When I said VIP I should have said RCA, it was a mis-speak.

Well, if you're interested in the hobby of antenna building, I encourage you to go for it. There is a great community of rf experts on this site that will help you through the process from start to finish. You might want to start with a post in the R&D forum to let them know what you want to build.

Keep in mind that you might have to do much of the assembling in the attic because your antenna might be too big to fit through the opening once it's done.

My hunch is your problem is most quickly and easily solved with, first, a pre-amp, and second a better commercially-available antenna (or a home-made antenna).

I purposely selected lower-gain pre-amps since you have some fairly strong signals near you. A high-gain amp is probably more than you need since you're not in a deep fringe situation. Having too strong an amplifier introduces risk of signal overload. I think your weaker signals just need a small boost to solidify them.

If you have the time, patience, and money to build the antennas, then it will be a great experience for you. One of my friends here in this community built one and he tested it on my house - a known good location for reception - and his antenna worked great!

You may still end-up needing the pre-amp even on the home brew antennas.

If you're just looking to trouble-shoot your reception, then I'd go order a pre-amp and you might find your solution to your reception problems in short order.

Best of luck on the build!

PS: Attic opening 2'X2 1/2' might be wide enough to accomodate the DB4e antenna - just confirm it. Alternatively, you could get the Winegard 8800 (8-bay) it comes disassembled and could be put-together in the attic.

[otadtvman]

1.) Thanks to cpcat, DEEPFRINGEGUY, Digital Rules, holl_ands and Rabbit73 for recommending the CM-7777. We purchased one and are currently using it with a CM-3021 indoor in a 2nd-floor south-facing window. It made a noticeable improvement over our older CM preamp as you all thought it would. With this indoor system, the 7777 is not overloading our tuners.

2.) holl_ands: Thanks for your recommendation. I purchased a Holland HLSJ and inserted it between our current CM-3021 and the CM-7777, right after the the CM outdor antenna balun. I immediately noticed that there's much less signal strength fluctuation displayed on our CM-7000 D-2-A converter box. Apparently, the majority of our suspected "multi-path interference" may have been harmonic FM interference.

3.) After reading portions of this thread, I gathered up all of our Made in Japan balun - thanks 300ohm (like these - Thanks gmcjetpilot.) originally supplied with old Mitsubishi & Toshiba TVs and compared them to our current CM balun that came supplied with our 4-bay CM-3021. To my surprise, signal strength improved on many channels. We are now able to receive WETA 26.1 (RF-27) 20% signal - its been a long time since we last were able to view it. Also, 43.1 York, PA is not only receivable, it has a 50% signal despite the antenna being aimed toward Balt. & DC.

4.) I finally decided on a new outdoor antenna. We purchased a complete Mclapp M4 with curved reflector kit - a made in America single antenna solution for channels 7 to 51. The quality of construction and attention to detail are excellent. Mike is also very knowledgeable and very helpful. I now need to purchase the mast to finish its assembly and decide on the 1x2 welded-wire reflector width.

Next: After driving an 8-foot copper-clad rod into the ground, I'll roof-mount the antenna with our CM-9510 rotor.

[Dave Loudin]

Excellent news! I hope the M4 works for you. I'll have to check the pedigree of my balun...

[be236]

And if an M4 doesn't work for you.... might I suggest making M8... I did that and compared to my M4, it brought my picture lock uptime from 20% to about 80% (eg, from 2 days a week of a few hours a week picture with M4 to about 6 days a week with picture for most of the hours in the day).

[otadtvman]

Hi be236,

I wonder where you got that idea . Since you already had an M4 .... it seemed like a cost-effective next step. I'm glad to hear it worked out so well for you. Way to go.

For the other 20% of the time:

• Do you have a "Made in Japan" balun? It makes a difference.
• Have you checked FMFool to see if you have any strong local stations - potential harmonic FM interference?

[RickleDickle]

Please help one of your Yankee neighbors! I've done my best to comply with your posting requirements.

I'm in a tough spot since I cut off Time Warner Cable TV two months ago. I'm going with RoadRunner only and saving $112 a month in the process.

Long story short, the landlord let the roof antenna go to blazes years ago because "everyone has cable," yet they won't allow anything hanging out the windows. They are "common areas" under U.S. law. My tests lead me to believe an outdoor antenna would have to hang at least 3 feet out the window so as to clear a very wide drain pipe circling the roof, so even a thin wire "invisible antenna" is out of the question.

There are broadcast towers in Milwaukee 37 miles directly north of my apartment, and Chicago 48 miles south. My second story flat has just two windows, both facing east. No hope of moving in the near future. I get *fair* reception with a little Monoprice HDA-5700 amplified indoor antenna, hoisted up high enough to clear that drain pipe, yet close to the window where the roof nearly meets my ceiling.

Recently I've found I get even *better* (still not great) reception with the HDA-5700 down close to me so I can constantly juggle a 7 inch square tin can I'm using as a reflector. There are signals bouncing all around my little apartment. I have to move antenna and/or reflector every which way you can imagine, but about 85% of the time I get what I want -- tantalizing, yet frustrating.

Here is my TVFool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...7fcfb169736340

As you can see, the seven strongest channels listed are from Chicago, not Milwaukee, in spite of the greater distance. Either city comes in about equally for me, probably because the Chicago signal has to go through, or pass over, eight apartments to my south compared to two apartments to my north. Occassionally I've noticed that holding the coax cable in my hand is the only way to get a really weak station, so I guess I need MORE MASS. I have no reliable PBS station at all. 11 and/or 36 only come in barely 20% of the time.

So I've been drooling over a DB4e from Antennas Direct. I would have to be indoors. I've got room in my apartment, and couldn't care less how it looks. They don't advertise it as an indoor antenna, but they do say "works great in attics," and I think I'm pretty close to an attic situation. Another plus is the DB4e is supposed to be comparatively easy to assemble, and I have unlimited faith in my ability to screw up anything mechanical.

My desk is close to the window, so I could set the DB4e close to me and reach over to manually rotate it, if need arises. I figure with a range of 65 miles in the open air, it might just grab those Chicago stations through the ceiling 48 miles away. In fact, I'm thinking I should aim it slightly upward, since little or nothing is coming through the south wall.

Now, Antennas Direct makes the following statement: "The Micron XG represents the most powerful indoor antenna one can buy." But I don't THINK they mean it's going to outperform a DB4e sitting right next to it -- indoors or out. OR DO THEY?? Should I forget all about the DB4e?

What might be ideal for me is some kind of "bidirectional" antenna with two fairly narrow beam widths. But I have no ability to build anything fancy, unless it would be possible to turn the two halves of a DB4e in opposite directions. Is that a reasonable thing to try? I have only 14 ft. of coax between antenna and TV and no splitter, so I was planning on trying it without a preamp at first.

To tell you the truth I noticed the tech support guy from Antennas Direct posts here occasionally. I'm very grateful for suggestions from any of your fine experts.

Rick

[majortom]

Have you considered building something?
What type and size are your two windows? How close to each other are they?
What's the building construction?