Poor HD Quality

[NYCanuck]

Originally Posted by Dr.Dave

I've seen several posts where people were initially disappointed with the picture quality from Telus and were able to adjust their TV settings to make the picture comparable. Most good TVs should allow you to set each input individually. I would make a note of the settings before making changes.

If black levels are a problem, try changing the "color space" in the TV settings if you have that option.

I calibrated my TVs when I first purchased them, and they have generally been great (and still continue to be great with Blu-Ray, DVDs, and Xbox). It is just with the Telus PVR and STB that the image quality is poor, albeit in different ways.

On the PVR, there isn't much artefacting, but poor black levels and generally soft edges. On the STB, the black levels are fine, but there is more artefacting.

In any event, I can try to re-calibrate by eye to see if I can't fix the problem.

[NYCanuck]

Originally Posted by ac

There is another thread that others have discussed this issue in. It could be you are experiencing the same thing.

Do you have a link to that thread? I can't seem to find it.

[NYCanuck]

Originally Posted by snorlax

The OP has not responded to 57's query about how the TV's are connected to the OPTIK "modem". If they are connected, as the OP stated, via coax (RG-59 or RG-6) and a typical F connector cable splitter it is no wonder that the PQ is so bad. Unless there is a ATSC modulator at work here (which is doubtful) the coax is carrying an analog RF SD channel 3 (or 4) signal which will look no better than old fashioned analog SD TV. If this is the case, a simple upgrade to component video cables will bring a huge improvement. A component splitter will be necessary to feed the second TV. And that TV will not be able to select a different channel than the primary TV. Please clarify your actual connections and don't settle for the "honest" tech's excuses.

Forgive me as there a lot of acronyms there that I don't understand, but I'll try to describe how itis connected.

There is a coax that comes out of the Telus-supplied modem, into a splitter, which splits out into two coax cables: one to the PVR upstairs, and the other to the set top box in the basement. Both the PVR and the set top box are connected to their respective televisions via HDMI cables.

Is that not the best way to connect? I tried component cables out of the PVR and set top box, and the picture quality was even worse.

[ac]

Originally Posted by NYCanuck

Do you have a link to that thread? I can't seem to find it.

It was this thread on the discussion of the new version...

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...136856&page=14

[Dr.Dave]

@ac, you can try changing the color space setting on your TV as I mentioned in my previous post. If the TV setting doesn't match what the STB is sending, you will see lack of detail in the blacks (crushed blacks). Your TV documentation may refer to YCbCr/Ycc vs. RGB or 0-255 vs. 16-255.

[Dr.Dave]

@NYCanuck, it's strange that you are seeing more compression artifacts on the STB. I'm fairly certain the chipsets in the PVR and STB are identical, so it could be differences in the TV settings. If you are seeing the picture breakup on the STB, then you probably have a problem with the coax cable from the splitter to the STB.

If you don't have the above-mentioned cable problem, then your wiring is fine. The signal is being transmitted digitally from the PVR to the STB using the HPNA protocol, not the old-fashioned analog method that snorlax was referring to.

The general rule of thumb is that MPEG-4 is about twice efficient as MPEG-2. In other words, it takes about half the bandwidth to produce the same picture quality as MPEG-2. Since MPEG-4 is more modern, it allows a lot more customization of the compression techniques than MPEG-4, resulting in a picture that looks slightly different than MPEG-2, particularly at lower bandwidths. Some of the picture enhancements that TVs use to improve an MPEG-2 picture may actually make an MPEG-4 picture worse, so you may want to play with those to see what the effect is.

[BGY11]

I'm noticing HD quality issues more lately. Watch an episode of Grimm or something and there is a lot of artifacts in low-light scenes. Before it seemed only black levels were affected, now it seems more issues are popping up. I have the PVR hooked up via Ethernet to the Actiontec, and via HDMI to my TV.

[brownstar]

I think the TV's have a lot to do with it, my POS Dynex 22" LCD TV connected to one STB makes SD channels look pretty good, but the same channels look poor on my better quality 42" LG.

Overall I do rate the Telus picture quality in HD better than Shaw, with the added consistency of the internet connection I have no plans to move back to Shaw.

[macdzich]

I did an install for a customer yesterday and he said Telus HD is no where near the HD quality on Shaw. He said on Shaw he could see the pimples on a persons face whereas HD on Telus look a little muddy, washed out. I told him different TV sets affect PQ but he wouldnt admit it. His TV is old, some Maxent brand.

[Dr.FeelGood]

General question for IPTV/Satellite compression: When referring to MPEG-4, is this MPEG-4 Part 2 (i.e. what DivX/Xvid implement) or MPEG-4 Part 10 (H.264/AVC)?

If it is the former, than I would assume that Telus IPTV should naturally have lower PQ than Shaw, which uses the less efficient MPEG-2, but has more than twice the bitrate than MPEG-4. According to Shaw Champ, Shaw also uses VBR (vs ABR/CBR).

[merve04]

I've personally have had Bell and Shaw.. let me say shaw was garbage, always macroblocking\pixelating. Bell was day and night compared to shaw imho.. I switched to Telus as they offer more hd selection than bell does. Telus looks supperior to bell from when i left, bell was overcompression the heck out of its hd channels. I'm quite pleased with the hd quality of telus,
sd is soft but who really cares now a days...

That rep you talked to should be fired, to say nothing but bad things about his own product, company is sensless.. must have frustration issues against his position at telus..

[L_Dub]

Originally Posted by macdzich

I did an install for a customer yesterday and he said Telus HD is no where near the HD quality on Shaw. He said on Shaw he could see the pimples on a persons face whereas HD on Telus look a little muddy, washed out. I told him different TV sets affect PQ but he wouldnt admit it. His TV is old, some Maxent brand.

What exactly is the customer supposed to admit? That the TV he previously used for Shaw (that displayed acceptable PQ) is now useless with his Optik setup?? That makes no sense. If that's the case, then Telus should release a list of acceptable television sets that their service is compatible with.

I find Telus has a problem with over-compression. The motion artifacts in fast moving/low light scenes are atrocious. I really hope they fix this problem soon!

[brownstar]

Of course different TV's effect picture quality on all systems, Shaw, Telus, etc. My good quality LG TV handles SD channels on Telus quite poorly compared to a $150 Dynex TV I have, but the HD on the good quality TV looks way better than the Dynex.

Originally Posted by L_Dub

What exactly is the customer supposed to admit? That the TV he previously used for Shaw (that displayed acceptable PQ) is now useless with his Optik setup?? That makes no sense. If that's the case, then Telus should release a list of acceptable television sets that their service is compatible with.

I find Telus has a problem with over-compression. The motion artifacts in fast moving/low light scenes are atrocious. I really hope they fix this problem soon!

[actionshots]

I was looking at consolidating my accounts (home phone and slow internet-Telus, TV- Bell satellite) save some money and get higher speed internet by going with Telus. Before I made the final decision I was searching for a Telus installation so I could see the remote, channel guide and recording in action. I finally came across a Telus store with Optik TV and I was satisfied with the PVR. I started channel surfing and something just didn't look right.

I then found the President's Cup coverage and I was shocked. I've watched and recorded the coverage (I was away this weekend so didn't see the final round), so I was familiar with how it should look. I noticed a lot of smudged (macro-blocked?) areas when the players were moving and a lack of definition. This was especially apparent in the players faces and Jim Furyck's and Bill Haas's bald heads. There seemed to be no definition in the player's noses and large areas of the greens ended up with no apparent texture. These fine details make watching an HD feed enjoyable, otherwise it almost looks like some cartoon-reality hybrid. If it looks poor on a small Telus demo TV how would it look on my larger TV?

Just down the mall was a Bell store, and they amazingly had the TSN coverage playing. I reversed to the same spot that I had watched on Telus, and it looked quite a bit better, with more definition. Both stores were using smallish (36"?) Samsung TV's. I'm now at home watching the recorded coverage on my 56" Samsung (optimized settings for color) and the picture looks great.

I'd really like to change to Telus and save quite a bit of money, but the PQ would be a deal breaker. I don't think I could get used to it, if that is what I would receive. Could this be an artefact of the telus store set up? The Bell guy said they broadcast in 1080p, whereas Telus was 720p, however I thought both would be 720p. It seems to me it would be a video compression issue (macroblocking due to compression?).

Is satellite that much better than Optik?

[57]

The Bell guy said they broadcast in 1080p

Wrong, it's 720P, except for "On-Demand". Here's the FAQ:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76129

There are lots of things that can play into different PQ - Make, Model, size of TV, TV optimization (or lack thereof), connection to TV, STB setup (1080i or 720P), etc. It's almost impossible to compare unless everything is identical.

One thing I have found is that the PQ on Bell (sat) tends to be a bit "soft", therefore you do not notice the compression artifacts as much. There is a thread in the Bell Sat forum on PQ.