The Copyright Modernization Act Bill C-11 - Page 4 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

Zod · 2012-05-16, 05:42 PM

At least with bluray you can watch it as many times as you want. You can still take the disc over to a friends and watch it.

I'm still very weary of digital copies. They're locked down so much more then optical formats (even optical formats knee deep in drm).

I guess I'm old school though. I still buy cd's. All I do is rip them to flac and put them on my DRMless flac player (Cowan S9).

I wonder how it'll work with cd's. All previous CD drm required software to be installed on your computer (in the background without you knowing it). You had to have autorun enabled for cd's to install it. All you had to do was disable autorun, and you never had to worry about cd copy protection. I'm guessing disabling autorun in windows doesn't constitute breaking a digital lock.

One would think that this legislation would cause DRM to show up on everything that doesn't have it yet. DRM sort of dropped off cd's, but it might come back. What if TV stations put DRM on their channels. They could make pvr's useless.

Fair use is thrown out the window as long as they'res a digital lock....

I suppose its going to be pretty hard to enforce though.

Michael DeAbreu · 2012-05-17, 11:42 AM

Interesting point. Are we free to disable the DRM we install on our own computers? I can see how cracking the disc encryption is breaking the digital lock. But screwing around with the software on my computer to hijack the un-locked file for legitimate fair-use? Hmmm?

audacity · 2012-05-17, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zod

I'm still very weary of digital copies. They're locked down so much more then optical formats (even optical formats knee deep in drm).

This is not true. I'm not aware of any copy-protection system that is as restrictive as Blu-ray. Blu-ray requires systems with HDCP implemented end-to-end (and won't display HD if the requirements aren't met), it uses AACS, BD-ROM Mark, and BD+. It requires that the operating system protect the memory of the video player, and not allow debuggers to run at the same time, and requires that the OS not allow the use of unsigned display drivers, at least in the 64-bit instances of Windows. Analog outputs can be disabled by content publishers. No component video for you!

If we were to take the copy protection built into iTunes, for instance, it doesn't make demands of the operating system and surrounding hardware like BD+ does. Microsoft needed to implement the Protected Media Path in Windows to support Blu-ray. Apple was not willing to do this for OS X, and that is why Mac users can't play Blu-ray discs.

Perhaps you're aware of a copy protection system that is more extreme than what Blu-ray implemented. If so, please enlighten us. Which is it?

ScaryBob · 2012-05-18, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Did you know that the maximum penalties under the Copyright Act are actually greater than those under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act?

Or worse... A construction employee was killed due to the employer providing unsafe equipment. The employer was fined $6000. The fine for illegally copying a 12 track CD, 12 movies or a 12 episode TV series, $6000. Is our legal system being skewed against the individual and in favour of corporations? You be the judge.

Michael DeAbreu · 2012-05-18, 12:38 PM

The best part of the copyright debate are the ridiculous analogies. Watch Tory MP Dean Del Mastro outlaw sock puppets, courtesy Michael Geist's Twitter post

How do they fail to understand that bits are bits?

gretzky · 2012-05-18, 02:36 PM

they don't understanfd we don't pay copyrights on the media format but what's on it

ScaryBob · 2012-05-18, 03:19 PM

They also don't understand that the big media companies use illegal price fixing practices and that price fixing will only get worse after this bill is passed. The music industry was convicted of price fixing in the US. That resulted in lower prices in the US but higher prices in Canada. (Canadian prices were previously lower than the US due to lower costs but companies in Canada are rarely charged or convicted for price fixing.) Meanwhile, music and movie studio companies are selling, at premium prices, copyrighted works that they stole from the original artists or recovered costs plus profit 40, 50, or more years ago. Historically, music and movie companies often built their operations using illegal practices such as copyright infingement but are now claiming the high ground and calling consumers crooks for not wanting to pay fixed prices that are too high, pay over and over again for material that was released on inferior media, purchase overpriced material stolen from the original artists or pay for material on which the copyright would have expired already according to the laws in effect when it was created.

jsebean · 2012-05-18, 04:16 PM

I get sick of the big companies trying to get more and more money and squeeze every penny they can unnecessarily, and the government goes right along with it and helps them. This isn't public interest, this is interest of big companies, what is happening to our government?

Dougofthenorth · 2012-05-19, 06:20 AM

RE: "Perhaps you're aware of a copy protection system that is more extreme than what Blu-ray implemented. If so, please enlighten us. Which is it? "

For one instance the format used for BELL sat transmission 2yrs plus & still not cracked

Solution to BluRay is DVD FAB (even for Cinevia)

A rather funny joke is now I see on BR movies the Interpol warning, the FBI warning & now HOMELAND SECURITY warning - give me a break.

It is now no different in a lot of ways than living under the eyes of the Gestapo & KGB.

We live in an elected fascist dictatorship. Once in office democracy goes by the wayside for the common man & serves the interests of the 1%.

Dougofthenorth · 2012-05-19, 06:58 AM

@ZOD

RE: "At least with bluray you can watch it as many times as you want.You can still take the disc over to a friends and watch it."

We got lucky - as MPAA backed by Sony, tried to initiate locking the BD media to only your specific BD player via online registration before your BD disc would be authorized to play it and only for your player. BD Live is part of this tech package.

HDCP via HDMI & DVI was one of the biggest & snealiest frauds perpetrated on the masses, forcing us to adopt this newer tech & rendering our previous AV components useless. This cost me alone $13,000.
(a Yam RX-Z1 & a 60" Pioneer Elite RPG HDTV - no HDCP pathways).

gretzky · 2012-05-19, 05:28 PM

Quote:

@ZOD

RE: "At least with bluray you can watch it as many times as you want.You can still take the disc over to a friends and watch it."

We got lucky - as MPAA backed by Sony, tried to initiate locking the BD media to only your specific BD player via online registration before your BD disc would be authorized to play it and only for your player. BD Live is part of this tech package.

HDCP via HDMI & DVI was one of the biggest & snealiest frauds perpetrated on the masses, forcing us to adopt this newer tech & rendering our previous AV components useless. This cost me alone $13,000.
(a Yam RX-Z1 & a 60" Pioneer Elite RPG HDTV - no HDCP pathways).

yes thats a racket
we should not being forced to change our tvs and players due to security changing it would be the industry to adapt their stuff on consumers

(by the way my tv ain't 3D and i have no intentions to buy one...)

ScaryBob · 2012-05-19, 06:32 PM

It really shows the thinking in the industry though. They want consumers to purchase a separate copy of each movie or song for each device and purchase a whole new catalogue when upgrading hardware. That did happen when many baby boomers purchased CD players and replaced their LP or tape collections with CDs but the industry wants that kind of income permanently. Assuming the material is even available, it would cost over $20,000 to replace my CD music collection. Multiply that by the number of music players I own and listening to music becomes a bankrupting endeavour. I don't plan on ever replacing those CDs. Some are over 25 years old but still play well. It's bad enough I need to pay for music services that duplicate much of that collection in order to listen to some new or unavailable (on CD) tracks occasionally. As to CDs, I still purchase occasionally but stopped for some time due to inflated prices and the industry's attitude towards consumers. They basically killed their own golden goose by being such a bunch of greedy anuses.

audacity · 2012-05-19, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth

For one instance the format used for BELL sat transmission 2yrs plus & still not cracked

Just because you say it's not cracked doesn't mean it's a more comprehensive DRM system than Blu-ray. It could just be a lack of interest by the people who have the technical skills to crack it.

gretzky · 2012-05-20, 11:23 AM

there are movies i bought 4 times
1 on vhs
one on DVD
one on HD-DVD
one on Blu Ray
(Breakfast Club to name it)
i paid 4 times copyrights on it
how many of you are in the same boat as me ?

Also about our right to backup
you guys should take a look at laser rot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE21Bb4tWS4

das75 · 2012-05-20, 12:43 PM

^ little conspiracy here by the industry?

2012-05-17, 11:42 AM	#47
Michael DeAbreu Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 806	Interesting point. Are we free to disable the DRM we install on our own computers? I can see how cracking the disc encryption is breaking the digital lock. But screwing around with the software on my computer to hijack the un-locked file for legitimate fair-use? Hmmm? __________________ Samsung LN40A550, Asus A8N SLI, Athlon 64 X2 3800, ATI HD Wonder, 2 Hauppauge HVR-2250, LG BH10LS30 Blu-ray, Windows 7

2012-05-18, 12:38 PM	#50
Michael DeAbreu Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 806	Tory MP Dean Del Mastro outlaws sock puppets The best part of the copyright debate are the ridiculous analogies. Watch Tory MP Dean Del Mastro outlaw sock puppets, courtesy Michael Geist's Twitter post How do they fail to understand that bits are bits? __________________ Samsung LN40A550, Asus A8N SLI, Athlon 64 X2 3800, ATI HD Wonder, 2 Hauppauge HVR-2250, LG BH10LS30 Blu-ray, Windows 7

2012-05-18, 03:19 PM	#52
ScaryBob Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Dandelion City Posts: 7,133	They also don't understand that the big media companies use illegal price fixing practices and that price fixing will only get worse after this bill is passed. The music industry was convicted of price fixing in the US. That resulted in lower prices in the US but higher prices in Canada. (Canadian prices were previously lower than the US due to lower costs but companies in Canada are rarely charged or convicted for price fixing.) Meanwhile, music and movie studio companies are selling, at premium prices, copyrighted works that they stole from the original artists or recovered costs plus profit 40, 50, or more years ago. Historically, music and movie companies often built their operations using illegal practices such as copyright infingement but are now claiming the high ground and calling consumers crooks for not wanting to pay fixed prices that are too high, pay over and over again for material that was released on inferior media, purchase overpriced material stolen from the original artists or pay for material on which the copyright would have expired already according to the laws in effect when it was created. __________________ At 20 I had a good mind. At 40 I had money. At 60 I've lost my mind and my money. Oh, to be 20 again. --Scary

2012-05-19, 06:32 PM	#57
ScaryBob Veteran Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Dandelion City Posts: 7,133	It really shows the thinking in the industry though. They want consumers to purchase a separate copy of each movie or song for each device and purchase a whole new catalogue when upgrading hardware. That did happen when many baby boomers purchased CD players and replaced their LP or tape collections with CDs but the industry wants that kind of income permanently. Assuming the material is even available, it would cost over $20,000 to replace my CD music collection. Multiply that by the number of music players I own and listening to music becomes a bankrupting endeavour. I don't plan on ever replacing those CDs. Some are over 25 years old but still play well. It's bad enough I need to pay for music services that duplicate much of that collection in order to listen to some new or unavailable (on CD) tracks occasionally. As to CDs, I still purchase occasionally but stopped for some time due to inflated prices and the industry's attitude towards consumers. They basically killed their own golden goose by being such a bunch of greedy anuses. __________________ At 20 I had a good mind. At 40 I had money. At 60 I've lost my mind and my money. Oh, to be 20 again. --Scary

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2012-05-16, 05:42 PM	#46
Zod Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 590	At least with bluray you can watch it as many times as you want. You can still take the disc over to a friends and watch it. I'm still very weary of digital copies. They're locked down so much more then optical formats (even optical formats knee deep in drm). I guess I'm old school though. I still buy cd's. All I do is rip them to flac and put them on my DRMless flac player (Cowan S9). I wonder how it'll work with cd's. All previous CD drm required software to be installed on your computer (in the background without you knowing it). You had to have autorun enabled for cd's to install it. All you had to do was disable autorun, and you never had to worry about cd copy protection. I'm guessing disabling autorun in windows doesn't constitute breaking a digital lock. One would think that this legislation would cause DRM to show up on everything that doesn't have it yet. DRM sort of dropped off cd's, but it might come back. What if TV stations put DRM on their channels. They could make pvr's useless. Fair use is thrown out the window as long as they'res a digital lock.... I suppose its going to be pretty hard to enforce though.

2012-05-18, 02:36 PM	#51
gretzky Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 731	they don't understanfd we don't pay copyrights on the media format but what's on it

2012-05-18, 04:16 PM	#53
jsebean Join Date: May 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 46	I get sick of the big companies trying to get more and more money and squeeze every penny they can unnecessarily, and the government goes right along with it and helps them. This isn't public interest, this is interest of big companies, what is happening to our government?

2012-05-19, 06:20 AM	#54
Dougofthenorth Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: near Ottawa Posts: 110	RE: "Perhaps you're aware of a copy protection system that is more extreme than what Blu-ray implemented. If so, please enlighten us. Which is it? " For one instance the format used for BELL sat transmission 2yrs plus & still not cracked Solution to BluRay is DVD FAB (even for Cinevia) A rather funny joke is now I see on BR movies the Interpol warning, the FBI warning & now HOMELAND SECURITY warning - give me a break. It is now no different in a lot of ways than living under the eyes of the Gestapo & KGB. We live in an elected fascist dictatorship. Once in office democracy goes by the wayside for the common man & serves the interests of the 1%.

2012-05-19, 06:58 AM	#55
Dougofthenorth Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: near Ottawa Posts: 110	@ZOD RE: "At least with bluray you can watch it as many times as you want.You can still take the disc over to a friends and watch it." We got lucky - as MPAA backed by Sony, tried to initiate locking the BD media to only your specific BD player via online registration before your BD disc would be authorized to play it and only for your player. BD Live is part of this tech package. HDCP via HDMI & DVI was one of the biggest & snealiest frauds perpetrated on the masses, forcing us to adopt this newer tech & rendering our previous AV components useless. This cost me alone $13,000. (a Yam RX-Z1 & a 60" Pioneer Elite RPG HDTV - no HDCP pathways).

2012-05-20, 11:23 AM	#59
gretzky Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 731	there are movies i bought 4 times 1 on vhs one on DVD one on HD-DVD one on Blu Ray (Breakfast Club to name it) i paid 4 times copyrights on it how many of you are in the same boat as me ? Also about our right to backup you guys should take a look at laser rot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE21Bb4tWS4

2012-05-20, 12:43 PM	#60
das75 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Edmonton Posts: 459	^ little conspiracy here by the industry?