Cant play hd audio with yamaha 6250 (and, more importantly, Pioneer Bdp-hd50) - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

gino333 · 2011-07-06, 09:50 AM

Hi. I dont understand why my receiver wont play hd audio on my bluray. When i play an dts-hd master soundtrack it says on the receiver that it decodes dts-es discrete. I have a pioneer Bdp-hd50 blu ray drive . I tried to set up to pcm but it doesnt work either. I am wondering do i need special hdmi cable? Currently i am on hdmi but its not 1.2 or 1.3. , is this what the problem is?

Please help

Thank u

57 · 2011-07-06, 10:06 AM

According to the specs, this AVR should handle the HD audio. Any HDMI cable should work if it gets the signal to the AVR. However, the settings in the BD player need to be appropriate. Often these user settings are not set correctly for HD audio by default.

Firstly you need to set it to Bitstream (audiophile if that's an option). Secondly some settings may need to be turn off to get HD audio - like SAP. A thorough read through the BD operating manual may be in order to get all the sound settings correct - or at least the proper settings for all of the audio options.

Also, when you insert the Blu-ray Disk, you need to select the HD audio track (it's usually the default, but not always). On the BD Player remote there's usually an "audio" button which allows you to cycle through the various audio modes. Realize that on most disks only the movie itself has the HD audio track - all of the preamble, etc is usually not HD audio, so you have to be playing the main movie.

DTS-es is not HD audio as you have noted. It's DTS-MA (Master Audio) or Dolby TrueHD. This should display on the front panel of the AVR, or in the user menu "info" for incoming signals. It's also possible to have the BD player decode the HD audio and send it out as Mulit-channel PCM, but I prefer with my clients to have the AVR do the decoding so that you can "see" that the input signal is HD audio.

Here's a post useful for those new to this stuff - FAQs, SearchTips, Optimization, etc:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741

gino333 · 2011-07-06, 10:11 AM

I understand what u are saying. That means it is a setting on the blu ray player. However on this specific blu ray there is no setting that says bitsream. Is there anyone that has this player and managed to make it work? Because u have a choice or pcm or auto . When u put pcm it says pcm on the player. When u choice auto it says dts-es .

hugh · 2011-07-06, 10:14 AM

gino333, as noted by 57, this is a good time to check your manuals to review the audio settings. What does your Blu-ray manual say in this regard?

57 · 2011-07-06, 10:25 AM

Quote:

That means it is a setting on the blu ray player.

No, there are typically several settings that need to be set properly. If there is no bitstream setting, there is often something similar - RAW or audiophile, or perhaps Auto. However, another setting may need to be set properly also. For example, I've often found an SAP setting that needs to be turned off/disabled in order to get HD audio to the AVR.

57 · 2011-07-06, 10:40 AM

I downloaded the operating manual - read pages 42, 44 carefully. I found the table on page 44 very confusing since there is no place where it shows DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD being output, unless there is an error in the table (quite possible).

Perhaps someone here who has this working on a Pioneer can help you - I know I've optimized a few Pioneers for clients and always got it working...

You could use the PCM setting which would have the decoding done in the BD player for the lossless audio, however, you'd want to make sure that it's outputting multi-channel PCM, not two channel PCM - this should be evident on the AVR display/info (You would not see DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD on the AVR when the BD player does the decoding).

You may also wish to turn off HDMI control as this can sometimes have the equipment override settings as mentioned in point 4 of the following FAQ. The BD player may "think" that the best way to do things is to decode in the BD player.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71112

Jake · 2011-07-06, 10:42 AM

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pio...ctions0511.pdf

On page Page 44 the superscript 6 and 7 say about TrueHD and DTS-HD,

Quote:

6. Only the Dolby substream is output.
7. Only the core substream is output.

So no DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD with that player. Just PCM. Don't you just love fine print.

57 · 2011-07-06, 10:47 AM

Jake, I read that also as indicated in post 6, however, that is very odd since even the least expensive BD player will bitstream HD audio to an AVR via HDMI and the only other device that hasn't been able to bitstream is the "Fat" (older) PS3. Of course, this unit could be designed similar to the old PS3 - it's just odd if it is...

By using the MC-PCM setting, the OP can get HD audio, obviously. This is also indicated on page 9 (search the pdf document for bitstream).

Jake · 2011-07-06, 11:03 AM

I agree. I mentioned they should use PCM for HD since it seems to indicate that in the table.

Plus this little nugget which reinforces our suspicion.

Quote:

The HDMI connection is compatible with 8-channel linear PCM signals (44.1 kHz to 192 kHz, 16 bit/20 bit/24 bit), Dolby Digital bitstream and DTS (5.1 channel signals) bitstream.

57 · 2011-07-06, 11:07 AM

It's just so weird. I mean, it's so easy to simply pass the bits on the BD out the HDMI port and let the AVR decode. Why would this BD player "insist" on doing the decoding? The PS3 was that way probably because it was available before there were BDs. The newer (slim) PS3 can bitstream, as can every other BD player I've come across in my optimizations (hundreds).

Jake · 2011-07-06, 11:29 AM

It seems JohnnyCanuck had a bad feeling back in '08.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=81483

eljay · 2011-07-06, 11:36 AM

Just downloaded the manual - I had to have a look for myself!

Based on pages 7, 9, 42 and 44, it does in fact seem as though Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are "downmixed" to DD and DTS.

But it also appears as though a multi-channel HD (or non-HD) audio track should pass through to the AVR unscathed.

57 · 2011-07-06, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

It seems JohnnyCanuck had a bad feeling back in '08.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=81483

Well, that explains that - an older player, probably designed about 4 years ago...

eljay · 2011-07-06, 11:43 AM

Congratulations, gino333! You have an official excuse to go shopping for a newer BD player!

Or, for relatively dirt-cheap, you can pick up a gently-used BD player which will bitstream the HD audio content to your AVR. Check canuckaudiomart.com, or your local used-goods sites - used[yourcity].com, [yourcity].kijiji[.ca] - for availability.

57 · 2011-07-06, 11:44 AM

Of course eljay says that in jest since there's nothing wrong with having the BD player do the decoding and sending HD audio (MC-PCM) to the AVR. Discussed under HD/HDMI audio near the end of the following FAQ:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76082

2011-07-06, 09:50 AM	#1
gino333 Rookie Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8	Cant play hd audio with yamaha 6250 (and, more importantly, Pioneer Bdp-hd50) Hi. I dont understand why my receiver wont play hd audio on my bluray. When i play an dts-hd master soundtrack it says on the receiver that it decodes dts-es discrete. I have a pioneer Bdp-hd50 blu ray drive . I tried to set up to pcm but it doesnt work either. I am wondering do i need special hdmi cable? Currently i am on hdmi but its not 1.2 or 1.3. , is this what the problem is? Please help Thank u

2011-07-06, 10:06 AM	#2
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,347	According to the specs, this AVR should handle the HD audio. Any HDMI cable should work if it gets the signal to the AVR. However, the settings in the BD player need to be appropriate. Often these user settings are not set correctly for HD audio by default. Firstly you need to set it to Bitstream (audiophile if that's an option). Secondly some settings may need to be turn off to get HD audio - like SAP. A thorough read through the BD operating manual may be in order to get all the sound settings correct - or at least the proper settings for all of the audio options. Also, when you insert the Blu-ray Disk, you need to select the HD audio track (it's usually the default, but not always). On the BD Player remote there's usually an "audio" button which allows you to cycle through the various audio modes. Realize that on most disks only the movie itself has the HD audio track - all of the preamble, etc is usually not HD audio, so you have to be playing the main movie. DTS-es is not HD audio as you have noted. It's DTS-MA (Master Audio) or Dolby TrueHD. This should display on the front panel of the AVR, or in the user menu "info" for incoming signals. It's also possible to have the BD player decode the HD audio and send it out as Mulit-channel PCM, but I prefer with my clients to have the AVR do the decoding so that you can "see" that the input signal is HD audio. Here's a post useful for those new to this stuff - FAQs, SearchTips, Optimization, etc: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741 __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2011-07-06, 10:14 AM	#4
hugh Member #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 47,501	gino333, as noted by 57, this is a good time to check your manuals to review the audio settings. What does your Blu-ray manual say in this regard? __________________ As of January 2012, I am no longer the owner of the Digital Home website. If you have questions about the operation of the site, please contact VSAdmin. For personal inquiries contact me at the Hugh Thompson website.

2011-07-06, 10:40 AM	#6
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,347	I downloaded the operating manual - read pages 42, 44 carefully. I found the table on page 44 very confusing since there is no place where it shows DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD being output, unless there is an error in the table (quite possible). Perhaps someone here who has this working on a Pioneer can help you - I know I've optimized a few Pioneers for clients and always got it working... You could use the PCM setting which would have the decoding done in the BD player for the lossless audio, however, you'd want to make sure that it's outputting multi-channel PCM, not two channel PCM - this should be evident on the AVR display/info (You would not see DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD on the AVR when the BD player does the decoding). You may also wish to turn off HDMI control as this can sometimes have the equipment override settings as mentioned in point 4 of the following FAQ. The BD player may "think" that the best way to do things is to decode in the BD player. http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71112 __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2011-07-06, 10:47 AM	#8
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,347	Jake, I read that also as indicated in post 6, however, that is very odd since even the least expensive BD player will bitstream HD audio to an AVR via HDMI and the only other device that hasn't been able to bitstream is the "Fat" (older) PS3. Of course, this unit could be designed similar to the old PS3 - it's just odd if it is... By using the MC-PCM setting, the OP can get HD audio, obviously. This is also indicated on page 9 (search the pdf document for bitstream). __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2011-07-06, 10:11 AM	#3
gino333 Rookie Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8	I understand what u are saying. That means it is a setting on the blu ray player. However on this specific blu ray there is no setting that says bitsream. Is there anyone that has this player and managed to make it work? Because u have a choice or pcm or auto . When u put pcm it says pcm on the player. When u choice auto it says dts-es .

2011-07-06, 11:07 AM	#10
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,347	It's just so weird. I mean, it's so easy to simply pass the bits on the BD out the HDMI port and let the AVR decode. Why would this BD player "insist" on doing the decoding? The PS3 was that way probably because it was available before there were BDs. The newer (slim) PS3 can bitstream, as can every other BD player I've come across in my optimizations (hundreds). __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2011-07-06, 11:29 AM	#11
Jake Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Gatineau and Ottawa Posts: 10,240	It seems JohnnyCanuck had a bad feeling back in '08. http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=81483 __________________ Tip: See an offending post? Don't reply, report it by clicking on the 'Report Post' icon.

2011-07-06, 11:36 AM	#12
eljay Premium Supporter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ottawa (Orleans), ON Posts: 8,378	Just downloaded the manual - I had to have a look for myself! Based on pages 7, 9, 42 and 44, it does in fact seem as though Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are "downmixed" to DD and DTS. But it also appears as though a multi-channel HD (or non-HD) audio track should pass through to the AVR unscathed. __________________ MY HT SET-UP (PICS & GEAR LIST)

2011-07-06, 11:43 AM	#14
eljay Premium Supporter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ottawa (Orleans), ON Posts: 8,378	Congratulations, gino333! You have an official excuse to go shopping for a newer BD player! Or, for relatively dirt-cheap, you can pick up a gently-used BD player which will bitstream the HD audio content to your AVR. Check canuckaudiomart.com, or your local used-goods sites - used[yourcity].com, [yourcity].kijiji[.ca] - for availability. __________________ MY HT SET-UP (PICS & GEAR LIST)

2011-07-06, 11:44 AM	#15
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,347	Of course eljay says that in jest since there's nothing wrong with having the BD player do the decoding and sending HD audio (MC-PCM) to the AVR. Discussed under HD/HDMI audio near the end of the following FAQ: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76082 __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

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