Bell Satellite On-Demand Discussions. - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
 

Go Back   Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums > Canadian Internet, Phone, TV and Wireless Service Providers > Bell Canada Enterprises (BCE) > Bell Satellite TV

Digital Home Helpful Information

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 2011-04-15, 04:15 PM   #1
SkinnyV
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Question Bell Satellite On-Demand Discussions.

I've been pondering on that question for 2 week and can't figure out how it is possible. I have a friend that work for bell and can't answer it either. I know for a fact that satellite tv technology is unidirectional and that itís also not possible for the satellite to just beam on demand movie on request to hundred of customer. I also know how it would be quite easy to do with FIBE tv. What bother me is that the website and documentation state anyone with a HD PVR 9241 or 9242 supporting MPEG 4 (even satellite users) can use that on-demand service provided they connect their PVR with an Ethernet cable to the modem/router. So far it's not rocket science and the pvr have a LAN card in it and is streaming from the internet which make a lot of sense. But then they tell you have the option of connecting it to the phone line instead and thatís when it start not making sense. The phone line doesnít have the bandwidth capacity to stream video, let alone HD content (all the on demand content are HD only).

Some people online state they reserve a part of the internal HDD for the video onĖdemand programming and that the content is already available on the PVR at all time for when you want to order it and that the HDD is bigger than the space showed by the PVR menu to store the excess data stored. This also doesnít make sense as the HDD is not bigger and you can find that out by opening the PVR as many users who upgraded their HDD can easily confirm. Second, there is no way that the PVR download all the HD on-demand catalogue every time they add title as HD content, even when compressed in MPEG 4 would take dozen if not hundreds of GB and downloading that to the PVR so called hidden partition would not only take days and would probably monopolize one of the PVR two available tuner for long period of time.

My only theory that could work according to logic but is still far fetched in my opinion is that those PVR models have some kind DSL modem module built in them linked to the phone jack that would work as a normal DSL modem but without the need to have a DSL account. But that would mean that express vu customer wouldnít be able to use the on-demand service if they had another phone provider like videotron that would disconnect the line from bell and create their own local loop thus eliminating any link the customer line might have with bell central. Also customer not living in area where DSL services are available would not be able to use that feature eitherÖ.

So guys Iím at lost and I hope someone technically inclined can shed some light on this annoying question I have been asking myself and friend for a few weeks and itís really starting to get on my nerve not understanding it

Last edited by SkinnyV; 2011-04-15 at 04:27 PM. Reason: spelling error in title
SkinnyV is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 2011-04-15, 04:32 PM   #2
Pinza
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North of the GTA
Posts: 9,691
Default

The HD On-Demand Movies are partially stored on the Internal Drives, then when a Customer chooses one (Think there are only 2 or 3 per month), the Reciever starts to download the movie from the Satelitte, after sufficient is downloaded, the Customer can watch the movie. Like a form of buffering.

At least that is my understanding.

I do know that no phone connection is required for watching the 1080p movies, so it is certainly NOT coming from the phone lines.

Also you do NOT need an Ethernet or Phone connection to remotely record a show on the 9241/9242, which clearly shows that Bell do use the available bandwith coming from the Sats for other than live Video & Audio.
Pinza is online now  
Old 2011-04-15, 04:40 PM   #3
Costa
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 520
Default

Bell does not reserve all of the HDD space for your PVR use. Example; if you plug a 2 TB external HDD into a 6131, it doesnt let you use all 2TB worth of recording space.

Their also is NO HDD upgrading available, other than through the external USB ports.

The 1080p/3D on demand content is downloaded through satellite, and not streamed (for now). So it has nothing to do with the phone or ethernet ports, which are used for purchasing content or assigning PVR events (ethernet and online only).

Edit: Pinza!!
__________________
Everything

Last edited by Costa; 2011-04-15 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Roar
Costa is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 05:16 PM   #4
Pinza
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North of the GTA
Posts: 9,691
Default

That is exactly as I see it Costa.

There is also space on the Internal Drive reserved for the Guide Data.

I have never pulled a Drive from a 9241/9242 to see what is there, Folders Partitions etc, might be time to do just that......
Pinza is online now  
Old 2011-04-15, 05:24 PM   #5
SkinnyV
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Default

I appreciate you guy's answer, but all of that seem just speculation and nothing concrete as it does not make a whole lot of sense technically speaking but I'll be happy to be proven wrong. I also got to say that upgrading the HDD is quite possible, it's just not supported by bell and opening the devide will show that the size of the HDD is really what it is supposed to be. While the internal HDD probably have a partition reserved for menu system, interface, interactive guide etc... It's is not big enough to store all the on demand movie of the month without greatly reducing the available recording space available. If only I had that receiver I would test the theory myself by filling the HDD completly, removing the HDD and doing a raw reading of the disk on a computer to find how much space it actually use and what other space is left for other data. Also, the satellite can not just ''beam'' the rest of the movie even if a short buffer was already present on the internal HDD because that's not really possible with satellite technology (that's why Pay per view was the only option for a while).
As for not being able to use the full 2TB of a 2 TB HDD, it's actually pretty normal as a 1 TB HDD would format to about 937 Mb in your OS. Without getting too technical, let just say that the advertised capacity of HDD is not calculated in the exact same way as an operating system and file system calculate bytes, thus making you lose a substantial portion of the drive capacity you were expecting to have available when buying the drive.

One way to test your buffer theory would be to try to rent a movie without plugging the ethernet or phone line. You were still able to order pay per view event without having it connected up to a certain limit so it shouldn't be different if the system work in the way you guy are describing. Also, if you make an HDD format procedure on your PVR and try to watch an on demand movie right after it shouldn't work if your theory is right as the movie or buffer of the movie wouldn't be in the HDD yet and would need to be retransfered to the HDD...

Also, guide data is so small that it's not really much of a problem, it's only text based database and would only be a few hundred of KBs... Transferring that to the PVR HDD would never prove to be a problem as opposed to transferring a full HD video feature and is not very comparable to the video on-demand dilemma.

Last edited by SkinnyV; 2011-04-15 at 05:44 PM.
SkinnyV is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 05:44 PM   #6
Costa
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 520
Default

Actually; they're facts, and not theories, but you can accept them however you please. Not only is upgrading your internal HDD not supported, it is also not possible. The Echostar equipment does not accept anything other than what it was not designed to accept.

You also misunderstood me when I referred to the space. If you have a 3 TB external hard drive, the receiver will only see 1.5 TB of it. I'm pretty sure they increased the cap from 1, to 1.5 TB.

Want to still argue about the 'theory'? than go rent a movie and prove us wrong.
__________________
Everything
Costa is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 05:50 PM   #7
SkinnyV
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Default

You don't have to get all defensive about it. If those are indeed fact as you say you can tell me where they came from without giving attitude you know. Someone saying something is a fact doesn't make it a fact without proof or reference of that fact. Did you do any test to know it's a fact? Did you take a look at the HDD partition or open up the pvr?
SkinnyV is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 05:55 PM   #8
57
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 8300-eHDD
Posts: 52,252
Default

A portion of the HDD is reserved for the downloaded material, however, that is not really germane to this discussion. "On-demand" on satellite is really "get a signal to the head end and download to PVR HDD, and watch", so whether there is a partition or not is immaterial, the process is the same - the movie is downloaded to the HDD. Cable and Computer have true on-demand with (almost) instantaneous two-way communication.

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpTv...ON&language=en

If the movie were not stored on the HDD, then any STB would work, but you need a PVR to "store" the movie. Not all of the movie needs to be downloaded before you can start watching in the same way you can "pause live TV".
__________________
57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization) . . . . 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
57 is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 05:58 PM   #9
Pinza
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North of the GTA
Posts: 9,691
Default

Quote:
It's is not big enough to store all the on demand movie of the month
Never said it did....

As you are aware Bell TV On-Demand HD now include 1080p movies, these MUST be downloaded onto the Drive first as no-one broadcasts 1080p "live" in Canada. Unless you know another way that Bell carry out this "Magic".
Pinza is online now  
Old 2011-04-15, 06:08 PM   #10
SkinnyV
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe a portion of the HDD is reserved for the downloaded material, however, that is not really germane to this discussion. "On-demand" on satellite is really "get a signal to the head end and download to PVR HDD, and watch", so whether there is a partition or not is immaterial, the process is the same - the movie is downloaded to the HDD. Cable and Computer have true on-demand with (almost) instantaneous two-way communication
But how can a single satellite be beaming movie on demand to customer at any time of the day? What if 500 customer order a different movie in the same hour, there is no way a satellite can send 500 different video streams to all those customer at the same time it would require more bandwidth than the satellite could ever handle. They’re already compressing the signal to try to fit more channel because they don’t have unlimited bandwidth capacity, that kind of thing would require huge amount of bandwidth… That's tjhe whole reason why pay-per-view was the only viable solution for satellite for a long time.
SkinnyV is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 06:09 PM   #11
57
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 8300-eHDD
Posts: 52,252
Default

From Wiki (BTV is the same):

Quote:
Both EchoStar/Dish Network and DirecTV offer video on demand programming to PVR-owning subscribers of their satellite TV service. Once the programs have been downloaded onto a user's PVR, he or she can watch, play, pause, and seek at their convenience.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_on_demand

Quote:
But how can...
There aren't 500 programmes. There is a limited amount of OD programming due to bandwidth. If you click on my BTV link you'd see that there were only about 20 items available.
__________________
57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization) . . . . 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
57 is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 06:13 PM   #12
SkinnyV
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
From Wiki (BTV is the same):


Quote:
Both EchoStar/Dish Network and DirecTV offer video on demand programming to PVR-owning subscribers of their satellite TV service. Once the programs have been downloaded onto a user's PVR, he or she can watch, play, pause, and seek at their convenience.
So is there any waiting time when you order a movie on vue on demand? Let's say I just plugged my new PVR in my house and I try to order a movie on demand right after activation, will it work right away without any loading?


I know theres only 20 program, but if 500 customers order from that pool of 20 movie at different time during the hour, they're not all at the same portion of the movie and require 500 different streams. Otherwise you would end up starting a movie that has been already playing for 20 min, it would be just like pay per view and you would need to wait for the next showtime and wouldn't be able to watch right away.

Also, it would mean that no internet usage at all would be made by watching an on demand movie with the ethernet plug connected in that case so I don't see why they would leave you the choice of connecting to the ethernet or the phone line and not just tell people to connect the phone line like they used to require for movie renting... Has anyone tried to rent a movie on-demand without the ethernet or phone line connected by any chance?

Quote:
Once the programs have been downloaded onto a user's PVR, he or she can watch, play, pause, and seek at their convenience.
The question then is at what time exactly this stream get uploaded to the customer's PVR?

Also I am curious about one of yours comment about being able to use the remote recording feature withotu having the ethernet or phone line plugged in... Did anyone actually try it? Sound very interesting to me.

Last edited by SkinnyV; 2011-04-15 at 06:51 PM.
SkinnyV is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 07:18 PM   #13
JoeLouie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,084
Default

Directly from the Bell National Installation Bulletin:

Quote:
PVR Hard Drive
• The complete HD movie content is stored on the hard drive for easy access and is renewed with new content as it becomes available.
• Must be on “standby” to download new content.
• This DOES NOT affect the receiver's recording capacity as the On Demand content is stored in another location on the receiver.
Hopefully this answers any questions.
JoeLouie is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 07:21 PM   #14
SkinnyV
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Default

Well that settle it then, thanks! That was a very interesting discussion, I just wish some people wouldn't have been so hostile to some questionning on the info being given
SkinnyV is offline  
Old 2011-04-15, 07:22 PM   #15
julie_rose_
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 309
Default

i am also curious about on demand with bell satellite tv, will they ever launch something like TMN on demand, mpix on demand???? If they are capable having ppv on demand, they should be able to have channels on demand too.
julie_rose_ is offline  
Reply

Tags
on demand, pvr, record

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:30 AM.

Search Digital Home

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.