Cordless tools / dead batteries

[ScaryBob]

The big problem I find with occasional use is that NiCad battery packs don't last long if they are allowed to self discharge. That is especially true of the cheaper tools with low capacity battery packs. It only takes a couple of months for the packs to self discharge and then they never seem to take a full charge again. Let that happen a couple of times and the pack's capacity is toast.

[Petee_C]

I bought a 18V Li-Ion Makita set about 36 months ago at the beginning of my basement HT project. Works well. I use the impact driver for it to drive 350-400 2.5" #8 screws on my home rink. Still holds lots of charge. I usually use it for about 3hrs and then recharge it, even though it's not dead.....

I hope to get 3 more good years out of the batteries, then will probably have to look for a replacement.

The forward/reverse switch on the hammer drill is a bit wonky, but that was my fault. I need to order a replacement part for it.

P

[oldyellr]

To the OP: If you're up to the challenge and like "fixing things", then by all means take the dead battery packs apart and find the dead cells. You might be able to build one good one from the remaining live cells. However, those stainless steel tabs and casings are extremely hard to solder if you don't have any very aggressive SS flux.

I'd be on the look-out for a replacement drill on sale. Whatever you do, don't get one without an extra battery. I have an old 9.6v Makita I bought on sale at TSC over a decade ago that's still serving me, so long as I have one battery on charge when I start using it and can keep swapping batteries. And it doesn't matter what big name brand you buy, they're all made in China and at the mercy of the company's cost-cutting bean counters.

[Petee_C]

"SS Flux"

Can you describe what this is? I've had hard time soldering copper wire to stainless steel connectors before.... Does this help?

(I was making a new 12V cigarette lighter plug for something that drew about 4 amps), the terminals were very hard to get a 'good stick' with the solder I had.....

Thx,
P

[oldyellr]

Stainless Steel Flux.

We used Amco 121 where I used to work for soldering nichrome wire, which is supposed to be impossible.

[WestCDA]

And it doesn't matter what big name brand you buy, they're all made in China and at the mercy of the company's cost-cutting bean counters.

It appears you are implying they are of lower quality because they are made in China. This comes up a lot - and I have to strongly disagree with that generalization. Where they are made is no indication of quality, just (currently) lower labour rates. Chinese factories, as factories anywhere else in the world, can produce garbage, products that are the best in the world, or anything in between. Major tool companies with Chinese plants produce leading quality goods by ensuring they have the materials, training and processes in place to maintain excellent quality.

Good quality tools are not inexpensive, and are built to perform and to last regardless of where the assembly plant is located. Yes, I can buy a Ni-Cad drill at Princess Auto for the price of a few drill bits. They are also built in China, but these 'Alltrade' and 'Powerfist' tools are built to meet a cost. The only time I purchase that kind of tool is for a one-time need. If it survives it's first job it's a bonus - maybe I'll get to use it again before it breaks.

And now back to our regular programming ...

[oldyellr]

I agree that there's decent stuff and pure junk that comes out of China. You get what you pay for, that's for sure. It's a fact of life that labour costs have shut down a large part of North American manufacturing. However, I feel that the big name brands now being made in China are priced with higher margins than cheap stuff is. I'm still waiting for when Canadian Tire has a 2-battery cordless drill on sale for $25 again so I vcan jump on it.

[rsambuca]

I am giving up on cordless drills. I typically won't use a drill for long stretches, and then when I go to use it the batteries are both dead. The last time, neither batter would hold a charge past a couple of screws, so I am going to get a regular corded power drill again.

[oldyellr]

rsambuca, I never bought into the cordless fad decades ago. 99% of the work I do can be accomplished with a regular corded drill that has lasted me for decades. I would have to pay 10x more for a cordless with the same torque, which would likely start giving me trouble within a couple of years. Sure, cordless tools are great for professionals who can recoup the cost from their clients, but for the home handyperson, they're needless extravagance and, frankly, a PITA. I have to plan ahead to use my cordless by having a freshly charged battery and another one on charge, then swap them as they die and hope to get the job finished. My drill, I just plug in and it still has the same torque hours later.

[TKG26]

I have been racing rc cars for about 20 years. (high load,frequent battery usuage)

Nicads. Very low in capacity but have decent voltage when you charger them.... Had memory issues and self discharge issues. Required regular regiment to keep performing

Nihms improved on nicad for the most part, capacity way up, last time i used a nihm sub c we had 4600mah cells.. Problem with these was a fairly fast self discharge rate. If we took a break from use for about a month or two it was not uncommon to find some cells within a pack at 0volts... This led to overcharging of other cells when you charged the pack back up.. near the end of this era for us we experienced many failed cells and even some that exploded

Now we use LIPO batteries. Amazing batteries. Lighter,higher capacity higher amp out put, no need for special care and almost no self discharing. And cost! They are cheap...no longer any need to run 60-110$ packs as we have used 20$ packs from china with huge success.

The work and equipment we needed to keep nicads and nihm up to race condition was staggering. Today with lipo its truely plug and play/race..


If your looking for affordable loose cells i have shopped here without issues a few years ago:
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com

[stampeder]

Another thread on this topic with helpful info:

Best Bang for the Buck Battery or Electric Trimmers?

[oldyellr]

Now we use LIPO batteries. Amazing batteries. Lighter,higher capacity higher amp out put, no need for special care and almost no self discharing. And cost! They are cheap...no longer any need to run 60-110$ packs as we have used 20$ packs from china with huge success.

I agree that those batteries have made a huge difference. Today's cellphones and laptops would be junk without them. However, the price still has to come way down. Cordless power tools using those batteries still cost at least double what NiCad battery powered ones do.

[TKG26]

I suppose in the power tool market that is true. Most of the make propitiatory packs(or should i say battery cases) just so you can't shop for cheap batteries. In the R/C world we all run fairly standard sizes and connectors.. In fact the only difference between one drill to another's drill is the shape of the battery pack. The insides are the same...

I went from needing 6 nihm packs to get through a race day at about 80-120$ a pop to runing one single pack on the same race day for 20$... (we needed 6 packs because the nihms would not perform if reused more then once a day... in some case twice a day was ok. but for the most part you where pushing your luck)


Im sure a drill could be DIY'd into using an affordable battery...

[Nuje]

I pulled apart a dead battery pack one time and found just regular AA-sized cells inside (I'm not sure what I was expecting - but the AAs surprised me.)

So, are those AA-Li-ion "batteries" available for purchase anywhere? I'm sure it's gotta be cheaper to buy 12 1.5V AA Li-ion batteries for my 18V Ridgid battery when it dies, than the $100 or so it costs for a new pack.

[Steve604]

for home, I like finding a good midgrade tool, I've had good success with Ryobi,

I'm a mechanic, and cordless tools are starting to replace air, Snap On, Ridgid, Dewalt and Mikita are the only way to go if you are charging your batterys daily, and leaving them for the weekend, they all include smart charges, which is very important

cheap tools come with really cheap batterys and charges that will cook them,
I've killed Black and Decker stuff in months, even other more expensive brands, the charges will over charge, they get hot, the tool seems to have extra power the first few seconds, you can smell the motor cooking, cause the battery is over charged,

Ryobi has smart charges, kits can be found on sale for next to nothing, and for less than the price of 2 replacement batteries and a charger you can get a drill on sale, that comes with 2 batterys and a charger,

I've used mine for awhile now, the batterys aren't as good as they used to be, but a couple spares with 2 charges is more than enough to keep 2 tools going all day, done a fair bit of work with them and never find myself waiting for a battery to charge,

I have a lot of top quality best of the best tools, and I would use anything else every day, I can easily tell the difference, but if you're not making a living doing it, a good midgrade tool will last you along time,
even the best of the best cordless stuff needs battery rebuilds or replacements eventually, quality tools usually have easier battery to rebuild, screws hold them together not glue