ON - Kanata, Barrhaven, Nepean, West of Greenbelt - OTA - Page 59 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

rosenqui · 2012-03-24, 12:26 PM

I didn't have a pre-amp before; I have a VA-91 amplifier in the basement as the first item after the antenna feed travels through 30 or 40 feet of RG6 from the attic to the basement. Right after the amplifier I split the signal and feed it into 3 HDHomeRun tuners.

We tried using a CM-777? with separate UHF and VHF inputs to combine the signal from the old antenna (aimed at CF) and the new (aimed at HC). It made matters worse - we lost some of the HC channels, perhaps due to interference between the antennas or because the signal was too strong. Oddly, we also lost Global in that configuration regardless of the FM trap settings. We eliminated the splitter / amp / pre-amp, tried different combiners, but were never able to come up with a configuration that got all of the stations with workable signal levels. My old antenna is FM/VHF/UHF, so if the CM-777? doesn't filter out UHF signals from its VHF input then both antennas would have been supplying UHF and that might have been the problem.

I don't have a simple UVSJ - that's about the only thing weren't able to try. If I get a chance to pick one up locally I can fairly easily pop my head through the attic hatch and reconnect things. I suppose some sort of notch filter that only allows CH-6 through might help too since the old antenna is able to bring in Global, and that's really all I need it for now.

roger1818 · 2012-03-24, 01:31 PM

^^^The Winegard 8800 is a high gain antenna and having it pointed directly at HC would very likely cause either a CM-7777 or CM-7778 to overload. To be honest, that would not have been my first choice of antenna for you, but I guess it is too late now. I assume you removed (not just unplugged) your VA-91 when using the CM-777x?

When set for separate inputs, UHF is filtered out of the VHF input (and vice-versa), so it won't cause interference. I have a bunch of UVSJs and could give you one for a buck if you want to try it out (PM me).

As for a filter that only allows CH-6 through, the JoinTenna is what you are looking for, but I suspect it won't be any better than a UVSJ for you.

plain om · 2012-03-25, 02:16 PM

New member, but have been using OTA TV for a few months now. Current set-up is temporary and looking for experience/suggestions to finalize it all.

I’m in Craig Henry, in the Greenbank/Hunt Club area of Nepean.

Currently have a CM4221 on a 16 ft wood pole against the back eave of the one-storey attached garage (house itself is two-storey with hip roof). The antenna feeds about 40 feet of RG59 to a basic 32-inch flat TV. The antenna points a couple of degrees east of south (magnetic), so about 178 degrees.

I’m getting all (I believe) local channels:

4-1 CBOT DT CBC Ottawa
6-1, 6-2, CIII Global
9-1, CBOFT Ottawa
11-1, CHCH DT
13-1, CJOH CTV Ottawa
14-1, OMNI 2
24-1, TVO
30-1, CIVO DT
34-1, CFGS
40-1, CHOT DT TVA
42-1, CITS DT
43-1, CHRO DT (CTV2) Ottawa
60-1, OMNI 1
63-1 CITY-TV

with consistently good signals, (TV indicates levels in % -- weakest is ~ 85%). Recently, WPBS (18.1, 18.2 and 18.3) seems to be fairly reliable at night (not during the day), and a few nights back (during the “heat wave”) I had both 28.1 and 28.2 (CBS and Fox) booming in, but not since.

I’m now looking at two basic options to set up the antenna system more permanently; namely, attic or outside on the house.

I temporarily tried the 4221 in the attic during the day and there was no apparent difference vis-à-vis the current location outside. (E.g, none of the U.S. stations was available.) The attic location is about 10 feet higher, but is under a plywood/shingle roof, surrounded by prefab-type wood roof trusses and rafters, and the usual metal roof vents. For this trial I had the TV upstairs near the attic hatch (i.e. with short length of good RG6), but a permanent install would involve 60-75 feet of (new) RG6 to reach the TV on the main floor. I didn’t try the attic location at night, but presume that it would be the same as the antenna on the pole outside.

Notwithstanding the extra cabling involved, the attic would be my preferred location, but it would be nice to get WPBS, or more, during the day as well, if that’s at all likely in my area.

The outside options include chimney mount (not sure if the chimney structure, which is clad in aluminum siding, can support this) or off an upper roof eave using a J-pole. Both would not add any more height than being in the attic. However, they would require more complex wiring for a ground (i.e., not directly down to the ground rod at the base of the wood pole, as it is now), and be susceptible to our fine weather conditions (wind, snow, and especially ice!). On the other hand, either outside location would make it possible to use a better (larger) antenna (such as the CM4228), which cannot be used in the attic due to the small access hatch. But then, would a CM4228, or similar, really make that much of a difference?

Appreciate if anyone in the Craig Henry area can help based on actual experience.

roger1818 · 2012-03-27, 10:00 AM

plain om, welcome. Could you please post a link to your TVFool results so that we can better evaluate your situation?

DXer · 2012-03-28, 12:57 PM

Discussions about a third DHC OTA Members Meet: Kanata and Area are starting in the meeting thread here: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...46132&page=999

If you are interested in attending a meeting of OTA enthusiats in Ottawa, head over to that forum and join in the discussion!

Please respond only in that thread if you are interested in the event.

DXer

plain om · 2012-03-28, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

plain om, welcome. Could you please post a link to your TVFool results so that we can better evaluate your situation?

roger1818:

Thanks for the reply.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b861322fa7877

I erred in the antenna compass details in my post above (#873). The antenna is pointing SE, at about 145 degrees magnetic (more or less in line with Herberts Corners and the U.S. sources in the Massena area).

roger1818 · 2012-03-28, 03:07 PM

plain om, looking at your TVFool report, I would say your chances of reliably receiving PBS (or anything from the US) is slim without great heroics.

Having metal near your antenna is bad for reception, so if you did a chimney mount, make sure the antenna is several feet above it. To secure it properly use a proper chimney mount (such as a CM-3080 or CM-9067) or possibly a wall mount (such as the CM-9025) bolted through the siding and cladding and into the framing.

Attics loose about 10 to 20 dB of signal (or more if you have a metal roof or siding) so it would only be good for receiving locals.

If you put it on the upper roof eave, I would use a proper eave mount (such as the CM-9030) and not a J-Pole. A larger antenna (such as a CM-4228 or HD-8800) would double the amount of signal received (a 3dB increase) once again increasing your opportunities for receiving PBS, but I can't promise that it will be reliable.

Fortunately Global seems quite strong in your location, so you may be okay as is, but if you have reception problems, it may be necessary to add a VHF antenna (those in Orleans and Kanata/Stittsville are not so lucky). An outdoor antenna will minimize the chance of this being necessary.

plain om · 2012-03-30, 09:08 PM

roger1818

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

I've been thinking of what to do and have sort of decided to stay with the status quo for a little longer. It seems to be doing fine for our interests. I will replace the old RG59 with proper RG6 compression connectors, and see what happens into the summer months.

I might try a 4228 to see if it makes a significant difference, and try the 4221 in different locations, such as temporarily above the chimney. Right now things seem to have improved and we're getting WPBS (18) during the day quite often, and at night consistently.

I was particularly interested in finding out the impact of an attic installation - 10-20 db loss is a high figure, so I'll keep focusing on what to do outside.

The chimney mount is probably the most interesting as it might be the easiest to install, and the antenna could be accessed fairly easily when need be. Also, in my case, it would involve the shortest line of cable to the tv. But I wonder if this type of chimney (wood frame, aluminum siding) can accommodate the strap-type chimney mount due to the strap compression pressures on the aluminum corner trims. The alternative, the wall mounts, are a possibility but I'll have to locate the framing underneath. Any idea/experience about using the strap type in this case?

Great group here. . . .

roger1818 · 2012-04-01, 08:37 AM

plain om, thinking more about it, you are right and the strap on type are probably best left for brick chimneys (for which they are the best option).

robselantra · 2012-04-02, 10:07 PM

Hey,

Not sure how to interpret the data on tvfool, especially when it comes to purchasing the right antenna for the stations I'm hoping for.

I would love to be able to get:
CBC, CTV, Global, Omni 1 and 2, French CBC, TVO, CHRO and City...anything else would be gravy. I currently have a newish indoor antenna that I got on sale to give it a shot. I get 2 french stations, TVO, CBC and CTV, though the last is not reliable, especially when my wife is trying to watch The Voice

TVFool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...267ed430e287b3

Anyone favour my chances? Thank you in advance.

Rob

stampeder · 2012-04-04, 02:43 AM

robselantra, have you seen anyone in this thread that is nearby your location? Which major street corner are you nearest?

robselantra · 2012-04-04, 10:57 AM

A couple of mentions of my area, but for mounts in attics mostly, and one for the CM Stealth antenna. I'm close to March/Shirleys Brook, about a street back from that intersection.

rosenqui · 2012-04-04, 12:34 PM

I'm on Marchvale - a little closer to Carp than you, but overall a very similar TVFool map.

I'm getting all of the local channels with a pair of antennas in the attic. There's an old (giant) FM/VHF/UHF unit aimed at Camp Fortune that's been in the attic for 10+ years, and a new DB4E UHF antenna aimed at Herbert's Corners. They get combined in a CM7777 pre-amp.

With a single good UHF outdoor antenna such as a CM4228 aimed in the general direction of Herbert's Corners you should be able to get everything except Global - that model picks up VHF-HI (CBOFT on 9 and CJOH on 13) fairly well.

My neighbour has a CM4228 + CM7777 in his attic and gets everything except Global. If he fiddles with the antenna position he says he can get Global working, but that generally makes OMNI.1 on CH60.1 disappear - it seems to be the weakest of the Herbert's Corners channels. He'll probably end up getting a VHF-only antenna to aim at Camp Fortune and then combine them with the CM7777 like I'm doing.

Hopefully Global will eventually move off VHF-LO or at least put out a stronger signal, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that they've applied to do so.

roger1818 · 2012-04-05, 12:23 AM

In Kanata North I would lean towards a 4 bay (or a C2) antenna over a cm4228 as it will have a much wider beam-width and you will likely need a separate VHF antenna for global anyway.

Poosh99 · 2012-04-05, 09:49 PM

Glad to see all of the info here on OTA. Just moved here from out West and have settled into our new house in Carp (Hidden Lake). The home theatre room is complete (120" front projection system) and the next step is getting OTA HDTV hopefully in time for the NHL playoffs. HD tuner is on order and will be here next week.

TVfool info: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...267e8023da53a6

I am higher up on the ridge, but the crest is between my house and the CF antennas.

So I am planning on putting together a SBGH antenna in the attic to pick up the local stations. Looks like for now at least, the US stations are trickier to pick up and I will leave that for another day. I may however, try to add a dipole antenna to pick up Global.

This may be a bit more technical question (and more for the antenna design forum??), but I think that the SBGH should pick up both towers as they are only about 70 degrees apart from where I am. Looks like it is best to cheat it towards the HC towers?? Also as this is going to be an attic install, I am not looking for weatherproofing the design so the elements will be on a large styrofoam board in the attic. The main question that I have is that most GH designs have the reflector poles, but in this situation, is it better to just have a flat mesh/solid reflector if there is no need to worry about weight/corrosion/wind?

Bit of an information overload going through these forums over the past few days (I have changed the design in my head a dozen times after reading the posts!), but I'm glad I found this resource.

Cheers!

2012-03-24, 01:31 PM	#872
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	^^^The Winegard 8800 is a high gain antenna and having it pointed directly at HC would very likely cause either a CM-7777 or CM-7778 to overload. To be honest, that would not have been my first choice of antenna for you, but I guess it is too late now. I assume you removed (not just unplugged) your VA-91 when using the CM-777x? When set for separate inputs, UHF is filtered out of the VHF input (and vice-versa), so it won't cause interference. I have a bunch of UVSJs and could give you one for a buck if you want to try it out (PM me). As for a filter that only allows CH-6 through, the JoinTenna is what you are looking for, but I suspect it won't be any better than a UVSJ for you. __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-03-25, 02:16 PM	#873
plain om Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Craig Henry, Ottawa, ON Posts: 14	New member, but have been using OTA TV for a few months now. Current set-up is temporary and looking for experience/suggestions to finalize it all. I’m in Craig Henry, in the Greenbank/Hunt Club area of Nepean. Currently have a CM4221 on a 16 ft wood pole against the back eave of the one-storey attached garage (house itself is two-storey with hip roof). The antenna feeds about 40 feet of RG59 to a basic 32-inch flat TV. The antenna points a couple of degrees east of south (magnetic), so about 178 degrees. I’m getting all (I believe) local channels: 4-1 CBOT DT CBC Ottawa 6-1, 6-2, CIII Global 9-1, CBOFT Ottawa 11-1, CHCH DT 13-1, CJOH CTV Ottawa 14-1, OMNI 2 24-1, TVO 30-1, CIVO DT 34-1, CFGS 40-1, CHOT DT TVA 42-1, CITS DT 43-1, CHRO DT (CTV2) Ottawa 60-1, OMNI 1 63-1 CITY-TV with consistently good signals, (TV indicates levels in % -- weakest is ~ 85%). Recently, WPBS (18.1, 18.2 and 18.3) seems to be fairly reliable at night (not during the day), and a few nights back (during the “heat wave”) I had both 28.1 and 28.2 (CBS and Fox) booming in, but not since. I’m now looking at two basic options to set up the antenna system more permanently; namely, attic or outside on the house. I temporarily tried the 4221 in the attic during the day and there was no apparent difference vis-à-vis the current location outside. (E.g, none of the U.S. stations was available.) The attic location is about 10 feet higher, but is under a plywood/shingle roof, surrounded by prefab-type wood roof trusses and rafters, and the usual metal roof vents. For this trial I had the TV upstairs near the attic hatch (i.e. with short length of good RG6), but a permanent install would involve 60-75 feet of (new) RG6 to reach the TV on the main floor. I didn’t try the attic location at night, but presume that it would be the same as the antenna on the pole outside. Notwithstanding the extra cabling involved, the attic would be my preferred location, but it would be nice to get WPBS, or more, during the day as well, if that’s at all likely in my area. The outside options include chimney mount (not sure if the chimney structure, which is clad in aluminum siding, can support this) or off an upper roof eave using a J-pole. Both would not add any more height than being in the attic. However, they would require more complex wiring for a ground (i.e., not directly down to the ground rod at the base of the wood pole, as it is now), and be susceptible to our fine weather conditions (wind, snow, and especially ice!). On the other hand, either outside location would make it possible to use a better (larger) antenna (such as the CM4228), which cannot be used in the attic due to the small access hatch. But then, would a CM4228, or similar, really make that much of a difference? Appreciate if anyone in the Craig Henry area can help based on actual experience. Last edited by plain om; 2012-03-25 at 06:24 PM. Reason: add more detail to channels received

2012-03-27, 10:00 AM	#874
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	plain om, welcome. Could you please post a link to your TVFool results so that we can better evaluate your situation? __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-03-28, 12:57 PM	#875
DXer Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kanata Posts: 159	DHC OTA Members Meet: Ottawa and Area Discussions about a third DHC OTA Members Meet: Kanata and Area are starting in the meeting thread here: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...46132&page=999 If you are interested in attending a meeting of OTA enthusiats in Ottawa, head over to that forum and join in the discussion! Please respond only in that thread if you are interested in the event. DXer

2012-03-28, 03:07 PM	#877
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	plain om, looking at your TVFool report, I would say your chances of reliably receiving PBS (or anything from the US) is slim without great heroics. Having metal near your antenna is bad for reception, so if you did a chimney mount, make sure the antenna is several feet above it. To secure it properly use a proper chimney mount (such as a CM-3080 or CM-9067) or possibly a wall mount (such as the CM-9025) bolted through the siding and cladding and into the framing. Attics loose about 10 to 20 dB of signal (or more if you have a metal roof or siding) so it would only be good for receiving locals. If you put it on the upper roof eave, I would use a proper eave mount (such as the CM-9030) and not a J-Pole. A larger antenna (such as a CM-4228 or HD-8800) would double the amount of signal received (a 3dB increase) once again increasing your opportunities for receiving PBS, but I can't promise that it will be reliable. Fortunately Global seems quite strong in your location, so you may be okay as is, but if you have reception problems, it may be necessary to add a VHF antenna (those in Orleans and Kanata/Stittsville are not so lucky). An outdoor antenna will minimize the chance of this being necessary. __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-03-24, 12:26 PM	#871
rosenqui Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kanata, Ontario. Posts: 386	I didn't have a pre-amp before; I have a VA-91 amplifier in the basement as the first item after the antenna feed travels through 30 or 40 feet of RG6 from the attic to the basement. Right after the amplifier I split the signal and feed it into 3 HDHomeRun tuners. We tried using a CM-777? with separate UHF and VHF inputs to combine the signal from the old antenna (aimed at CF) and the new (aimed at HC). It made matters worse - we lost some of the HC channels, perhaps due to interference between the antennas or because the signal was too strong. Oddly, we also lost Global in that configuration regardless of the FM trap settings. We eliminated the splitter / amp / pre-amp, tried different combiners, but were never able to come up with a configuration that got all of the stations with workable signal levels. My old antenna is FM/VHF/UHF, so if the CM-777? doesn't filter out UHF signals from its VHF input then both antennas would have been supplying UHF and that might have been the problem. I don't have a simple UVSJ - that's about the only thing weren't able to try. If I get a chance to pick one up locally I can fairly easily pop my head through the attic hatch and reconnect things. I suppose some sort of notch filter that only allows CH-6 through might help too since the old antenna is able to bring in Global, and that's really all I need it for now.

2012-03-30, 09:08 PM	#878
plain om Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Craig Henry, Ottawa, ON Posts: 14	roger1818 Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I've been thinking of what to do and have sort of decided to stay with the status quo for a little longer. It seems to be doing fine for our interests. I will replace the old RG59 with proper RG6 compression connectors, and see what happens into the summer months. I might try a 4228 to see if it makes a significant difference, and try the 4221 in different locations, such as temporarily above the chimney. Right now things seem to have improved and we're getting WPBS (18) during the day quite often, and at night consistently. I was particularly interested in finding out the impact of an attic installation - 10-20 db loss is a high figure, so I'll keep focusing on what to do outside. The chimney mount is probably the most interesting as it might be the easiest to install, and the antenna could be accessed fairly easily when need be. Also, in my case, it would involve the shortest line of cable to the tv. But I wonder if this type of chimney (wood frame, aluminum siding) can accommodate the strap-type chimney mount due to the strap compression pressures on the aluminum corner trims. The alternative, the wall mounts, are a possibility but I'll have to locate the framing underneath. Any idea/experience about using the strap type in this case? Great group here. . . .

2012-04-01, 08:37 AM	#879
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	plain om, thinking more about it, you are right and the strap on type are probably best left for brick chimneys (for which they are the best option). __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-04-02, 10:07 PM	#880
robselantra Rookie Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2	North Kanata Hey, Not sure how to interpret the data on tvfool, especially when it comes to purchasing the right antenna for the stations I'm hoping for. I would love to be able to get: CBC, CTV, Global, Omni 1 and 2, French CBC, TVO, CHRO and City...anything else would be gravy. I currently have a newish indoor antenna that I got on sale to give it a shot. I get 2 french stations, TVO, CBC and CTV, though the last is not reliable, especially when my wife is trying to watch The Voice TVFool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...267ed430e287b3 Anyone favour my chances? Thank you in advance. Rob

2012-04-04, 02:43 AM	#881
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	robselantra, have you seen anyone in this thread that is nearby your location? Which major street corner are you nearest? __________________ New To OTA? OTA FAQ & Knowledge Base OTA Antenna Chart 8.2

2012-04-04, 10:57 AM	#882
robselantra Rookie Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2	A couple of mentions of my area, but for mounts in attics mostly, and one for the CM Stealth antenna. I'm close to March/Shirleys Brook, about a street back from that intersection.

2012-04-04, 12:34 PM	#883
rosenqui Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kanata, Ontario. Posts: 386	I'm on Marchvale - a little closer to Carp than you, but overall a very similar TVFool map. I'm getting all of the local channels with a pair of antennas in the attic. There's an old (giant) FM/VHF/UHF unit aimed at Camp Fortune that's been in the attic for 10+ years, and a new DB4E UHF antenna aimed at Herbert's Corners. They get combined in a CM7777 pre-amp. With a single good UHF outdoor antenna such as a CM4228 aimed in the general direction of Herbert's Corners you should be able to get everything except Global - that model picks up VHF-HI (CBOFT on 9 and CJOH on 13) fairly well. My neighbour has a CM4228 + CM7777 in his attic and gets everything except Global. If he fiddles with the antenna position he says he can get Global working, but that generally makes OMNI.1 on CH60.1 disappear - it seems to be the weakest of the Herbert's Corners channels. He'll probably end up getting a VHF-only antenna to aim at Camp Fortune and then combine them with the CM7777 like I'm doing. Hopefully Global will eventually move off VHF-LO or at least put out a stronger signal, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that they've applied to do so.

2012-04-05, 12:23 AM	#884
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	In Kanata North I would lean towards a 4 bay (or a C2) antenna over a cm4228 as it will have a much wider beam-width and you will likely need a separate VHF antenna for global anyway. __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-04-05, 09:49 PM	#885
Poosh99 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Carp, ON Posts: 1	OTA in Carp Glad to see all of the info here on OTA. Just moved here from out West and have settled into our new house in Carp (Hidden Lake). The home theatre room is complete (120" front projection system) and the next step is getting OTA HDTV hopefully in time for the NHL playoffs. HD tuner is on order and will be here next week. TVfool info: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...267e8023da53a6 I am higher up on the ridge, but the crest is between my house and the CF antennas. So I am planning on putting together a SBGH antenna in the attic to pick up the local stations. Looks like for now at least, the US stations are trickier to pick up and I will leave that for another day. I may however, try to add a dipole antenna to pick up Global. This may be a bit more technical question (and more for the antenna design forum??), but I think that the SBGH should pick up both towers as they are only about 70 degrees apart from where I am. Looks like it is best to cheat it towards the HC towers?? Also as this is going to be an attic install, I am not looking for weatherproofing the design so the elements will be on a large styrofoam board in the attic. The main question that I have is that most GH designs have the reflector poles, but in this situation, is it better to just have a flat mesh/solid reflector if there is no need to worry about weight/corrosion/wind? Bit of an information overload going through these forums over the past few days (I have changed the design in my head a dozen times after reading the posts!), but I'm glad I found this resource. Cheers!

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