ON - Kanata, Barrhaven, Nepean, West of Greenbelt - OTA

[roger1818]

GazzaT, is your "dipole" antenna something like this?

A simple, efficient TV antenna

[GazzaT]

Yes, exactly. With a balun soldered to the down lead, and the main part taped to a piece of plastic conduit

[roger1818]

Was going to make one like that (even got the twin-lead), but then decided to buy my 5Y6S instead.

[dave7718]

Hi, I'm new to OTA but I have been reading this forum a lot.

I am having some reception issues on some channels and some signal quality issues on some channels.
I live in Kanata near the Scotiabank Place. I'm in a 3 storey townhome.

My Setup:
- Approx 30ft off ground
- Rabbit ears

With the rabbit ears lying horizontal with the antennae 30 degrees NE and 60 degrees NE I do pretty well.
- 4-1 CBOT-DT (CBC)
- 11-1 CHCHDT1 (CHCH)
- 13-1 CJOH (CTV)
- 24-1 TVO
- 30-1 CIBO-DT
- 34-1 CFGS
- 40-1 CHOT
- 65-1 CityTv (CityTV)

I was trying to get Global (6-1) so I bought a CM7777 that was recommended on the forum and I get marginal differences. It boosts the signal strength a bit on all channels, but global still does not come in with the antenna this way. In addition to the above, I get
- 42-1 CTS-HD
- 43-1 CHRO (CTV2)
- 60-1 OMNI1 (OMNI1)

Now, if I hold the antenna upright in the center of the bedroom some other channels come in depending on which way I hold the antenna.
- 9-1 CBOT-DT
- 14-1 OMNI2 (OMNI2)
- 6-1 CIII-HD (Global)
- 41-2 CIII-SD (Global)

My goal is to get:
Global, CBC, CTV, CTV2, CHCH, CityTV, OMNI1, OMNI2 consistently and at the same time .

So my questions are:
- Do I have an appropriate setup?
- Should I put the antenna in the attic as some on the forum have recommended?
- Do I really need the pre-amp (CM7777) or is there something else I should be using?
- Should I have a different antenna? Will a different antenna make much of a difference?

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. As of now I don't think I can rely on OTA completely. I have also not tested it in poor weather. Does poor weather affect the signal much?

Thank you very much for your help.

[OTAJuncqui]

Welcome Dave.

First things first, please go to TVFOOL( http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29) and complete a signal report and post the link to it here.
Digital signals are very stable and given certain atomspheric anomilies quite surprising(I was watching WPTZ NBC from Plattsburgh last weekend).
You can do much better with a better antenna($50-100) but don't toss the rabbit ears(you may need 'em for Global).
The pre amp is fine but lets see that TVFOOL report you may have some US channel capability.

[gzero]

Hi Dave --

With my CM7778 I had to open it up and disable the FM trap (theres a little switch inside the case) to pick up Global on RF6.

Cheers,
Jared

[roger1818]

Dave, when you say you are using rabbit ears, what do you mean? Does it also have a loop for UHF? Is it amplified? A model number would be useful.

Also, as OTAJuncqui said, your TVFool report would be useful.

Global is tough to receive indoors. Attic installations can be better, but an outdoor antenna is best.

Regarding the CM-7777, in general I don't recommended amplifying indoor antennas (with certain exceptions). Your first course of action should be to get a better antenna and installing it either in the attic (better) or outside (best).

[dave7718]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses!

My TV Fool report is:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b8659a7bf77a2
And I have set it to my homepage.

RE: Pre-Amp
- I noticed on channel master's website that they recommend the 7778 for distances less than 20 miles and 7777 for distances more than 20 miles. It seems all the channels I'm looking for are less that 20 miles, could that be hurting my chances?
- I'll try to disable the FM trap like you suggested when I get home

RE: Current Antenna
- I am using rabbit ears which I just had kicking around the house.
- "Replacement VHF dipole". I linked to it, but the moderator removed it. No UHF loop, not amplified.

I'm in a 3 storey town-house, so getting an antenna on the roof may be a challenge, but I'm certainly open to an attic installation if required.

[GazzaT]

I am not that far from you (And have an almost identical signal report). I found I needed an primary antenna pointing to HC (SW) and a separate VHF antenna for Global pointing at CF (N). My Global VHF dipole antenna is discussed above, the main antenna is this one (Without any reflectors) http://www.diytvantennas.com/sbgh.html (FWIW I did try to make a second one using 12 gauge copper, it was no better than the first one using the 14 gauge multi-purpose wire.)
I think mine is pointed a little south of HC and collects the strong signals from CF from the rear. The CM7777 combines the VHF and UHF signals as well as amplifies. I am able to get all the channels you listed consistently with this set-up. I am sure you can buy antennas that match this/better this set-up, but there is something quite stimulating in throwing together a bunch of wire, screws and tape and then seeing HD TV display.

[dave7718]

Hi, I tried turning the FM trap to "Out" and it brings in CBC much better but global is still about the same, I can get it if I put the antenna in a random place in the room but I loose half the other channels.

I'm also a little confused about the whole VHF/UHF topic. I have rabbit ears and seem to get channels up to 69 but the following description states I should only be able to pick up stations up to 13...

"In Canada, TV stations broadcast over-the-air on either VHF (channels 2-13) or UHF (channels 14-51) frequency bands."

Does anyone have any recommendations for a different antenna? I could put it in my attic, or even a different indoor antenna would work too if that would help get global.

[OTAJuncqui]

Yep, you should get another antenna.
A 4-bay ($50) or better yet an 8-bay if it fits ($100).
Get a WineGard,ChannelMaster or Antennas Direct because "you get what you pay for".

Attach your rabbit ears to the VHF on the CM7777 and the new antenna to the UHF.
You are going to have to have a stable mount, just holding the antenna is not consistant.
So, an attic mount is what you seem to favor. Get up there with a phone to communicate with someone in front of the TV and find a position for each that yields good reception. You can hang them from hooks and dental floss if you're really cheap. It's better if you do this before May because an attic can be very uncomfortable May thru September!

In my case I have an 8-bay pointed at HC and a 45yr old single bay to CF with the CM7777

[roger1818]

dave7718, rabbit ears are typically optimized for VHF (though you can shorten them to work for UHF). That doesn't mean they can't receive UHF, it is just they won't receive it very well. If the signal is strong, any antenna will work (even a paper clip). As you have noticed, the thing about DTV is it is all or nothing in that you either get a perfect picture or none at all. Since weather and foliage will affect reception, using antenna(s) optimized for the channels you want to receive is recommended for reliable reception year round.

Channel 6 is very difficult to receive indoors for a variety of reasons. First of all, it is quite weak (more so for some than others). Secondly it is much more susceptible to impulse noise generated inside your house than higher channel numbers. Moving the antenna outside will not only allow it to receive a stronger signal but will reduce the amount of impulse noise received.

[OTAJuncqui]

For the past several months my reception of CBOT-DT has been iffy from 4:30pm thru 6:30pm. Yesterday it was fine but today I couldn't hold a signal for more than 3-5secs. All other CF staions are fine(including Global). What is it that could cause interference on this one channel at this specific time of day and only some days? I'm ten floors up and yes there are what appears to be cell transmitters (they're shrouded in fiberglass). Any ideas?

[roger1818]

^^^Strange that it affects CBOT but not TVO as they are adjacent. I wonder if it could be some type of inter-modulation interference. Doesn't explain the time of day issue. Can you try and find out what frequencies are used by the cell transmitters near you (I seem to remember seeing an online tool posted in one of the other threads that would help with this). If that is the problem, a low pass filter (before your pre-amp if you have one) might help.

[roger1818]

Replying to a post in the OTA: Ontario Parts, Sales, Service, Installers thread.

Originally Posted by rosenqui

We spent about 2 hours trying to get an attic setup that received all of the Ottawa channels, but in the end, Global proved to be too much of a problem for me in NW Kanata near Carp. I could get Global and the other Camp Fortune stations with my old FM/VHF/UHF attic antenna, but when adding a second antenna to get the Manotick stations we could never get Global and the Manotick stations regardless of what combiner / amplifier / preamp / FM-trap we tried. Global is just too weak and finicky.

In the end I left just the Winegard 8800 that he installed connected - it's getting everything except global. We'll see if we miss Global, and if so, maybe get a high-gain antenna tuned just for VHF CH-6 added to the mix, or go with an outdoor setup rather than in the attic. I sure wish Global would improve their transmitter or switch to another frequency.

Did you have a pre-amp before? What pre-amp are you using now? If it has separate VHF and UHF inputs, what if you connected your old FM/VHF/UHF antenna to the VHF port and the new 8800 to the UHF one (be sure that the pre-amp is set to use separate inputs)? Alternately, use a UVSJ to combine the two.