ON - Kanata, Barrhaven, Nepean, West of Greenbelt - OTA - Page 57 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

roger1818 · 2012-03-06, 02:32 PM

You will never find 3dB as that is the theoretical minimum. In the real world 3.5dB is the minimum you can expect to find.

DCor · 2012-03-07, 12:00 AM

Hi Everyone,
I'm fairly new to the OTA adventure, however I do remember back in the 60s Dad had quite the system going on when we lived at CFB Trenton, I loved the cartoons we could pull in from across the lake!
I see many OTA'ers poping up on this forum within my area, I'm a couple of blocks from Claridge & Strandherd, and quite satisfied with the channels I'm able to recieve with a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna. It sits about 10' up from the ground at the south end of the house. I'm in a bungalow and pretty much surrounded by two storey houses.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b86cc812a9393

4.1 - CBOTHD
6.1 - CIII-HD
9.1 - CBOFT *
11.1 - CHCHHD
13.1 - CJOHHD
14.1 - OMNI2HD
24.1 - TVOHD
30.1 - TELE-Quebec HD*
34.1 - CFGS*
40.1 - CHOT
42.1 - CTS HD*
43.1 - CHRO HD (CTV2)
60.1 - OMNI 1 HD*
65.1 - CityTV HD
* I may have been able to get these in the recent past but having trouble with them lately.

roger1818 · 2012-03-07, 09:37 AM

DCor, With a good outdoor (or maybe attic) antenna, you should be able to add WNPI (PBS) and maybe even WNYF-LD (CBS and FOX). It should also help the reliability of the locals you are having trouble with.

DCor · 2012-03-09, 08:19 PM

Hi Roger1818,
Thanks for your reply.
I have been moving my antenna around, even a slight change can make a big difference, finding this true with City, Omni1 and Omni 2.
Would love to explore a roof or attic antenna, but with the others living in the house will have to keep cable for now.
I find the HD PQ so much better OTA!!

rosenqui · 2012-03-12, 03:24 PM

I'm in rural Kanata near Carp - on the Kanata side of the Carp ridge.

TV Fool report

I've got a large UHF/VHF/FM antenna in the attic pointed at Camp Fortune. It's been up there since the house was built in 2000 and hasn't been used all that much, but now I'm looking to get rid of satellite TV so I'm motivated to improve our OTA reception. I don't know the antenna brand/model - I'd have to get up in the attic to check, but it's a relatively large UHF/VHF/FM unit like you saw all the time in the "old days".

The main problem with the current setup is that I don't get any of the channels from Herbert's Corners reliably, if at all. If I use an FM trap + UHF/VHF amplifier, the most sensitive ATSC tuners I have will pick up some HC channels, but even then there's picture breakup.

As you can see from my TV Fool report, CF and HC are almost exactly 90 degrees apart at my location. Does that mean I'm unlikely to get good results with a single antenna at my distances (12.2 miles to CF, 22.4 to HC)? I don't want to lose VHF-Lo (Global) since they carry a lot of the shows we watch. I don't mind trying to install a different antenna in the attic myself, but if I need to gang 2 antennas or go with a roof mount I'd just as soon have a pro do the work. From what I've read, just adding another antenna aimed at HC might cause interference with the signal I get off the existing CF antenna.

So... can this work with 1 antenna, and if not, where does one find an OTA antenna installer in Ottawa? I found nothing for installers in the forum, and a web search just turns up one guy on Kijiji. There are lots of places that will sell the gear for a do-it-yourself install, but I'm not having any luck finding someone who'll go up on the roof or do whatever is necessary to get a good signal. I'll make contact with the guy on Kijiji, but in the meantime it would be good to hear recommendations from others who've had work done.

roger1818 · 2012-03-12, 03:40 PM

rosenqui, while 90 degree separation isn't ideal, it should still be possible to receive everything without rotating or switching. Looking at your TVFool report, it isn't surprising that with your antenna pointed towards CF, you aren't receiving anything from HC reliably. Since your current antenna is working well for Global and all VHF stations are from CF, I would leave that antenna as is and use it as a VHF antenna. I would then add a UHF antenna with a wide beam-width (such as the C2) for UHF and point it between the two towers (maybe more towards HC since they are weaker). The antennas could be combined with your pre-amp if it has a built in combiner, otherwise you can add a UVSJ.

I wouldn't rule out an attic mount and doing it yourself. I don't know of any good installers and a bad one may sell you a bunch of stuff you don't need. This is something you can do.

rosenqui · 2012-03-12, 04:03 PM

Interesting... so the UVSJ would filter out the UHF from the existing antenna I take it, meaning it's just being used for Global, CBOFT, and CJOH.

I didn't consider that option originally because the specs on the forum sponsor site for an antenna like the ClearStream 2 says it has "an extremely wide beam width of 70 degrees", and 70 degrees < 90 degrees. If you guys are convinced that it can work I don't mind spending a bit of time and money to try it out.

Would there be any point in using a pre-amp instead of the UVSJ or is that likely to provide too strong a signal? The feed from the attic goes to the wiring room in the basement via RG6 coax - I'd guess 30-40' tops, so there shouldn't be much signal loss.

Any other suggestions are welcome.

roger1818 · 2012-03-12, 05:01 PM

Yes, the UVSJ would do as you say (though CBOFT may be moving to UHF soon).

The beamwidth spec of an antenna is what they call the 3dB beamwidth, which is the range over which the signal received will be more than half of the maximum (typically straight ahead). It does not mean there will be no signal beyond that. The other option would be to combine two UHF antennas, but the disadvantage of that is you will loose more than half the signal strength with a broadband combiner and may run into other difficulties.

cayemar · 2012-03-13, 01:08 PM

Well we are completely cable TV free and picking up between 8 and 14 channels with our amplified indoor antenna depending upon placement.

I am really considering a roof top antenna with a signal booster and a connection to the old cable lines in the house as I mentioned once earlier.

Problem is I really don't see myself up there above the second storey trying to mount the antenna. And so I wonder, as was previously mentioned in the thread, if there is a local expert who does these kinds of installs??

My wife is also concerned about lightning. How does one protect oneself from lightning strikes with a roof top antenna?

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Jase88 · 2012-03-13, 01:45 PM

cayemar, for installers, please check out the "Where can I buy?" forum for threads on installers.

Please also check out the Grounding Info and Standards thread. Specifically, I'd do a search through the thread for "Lightning Arrestors".

GazzaT · 2012-03-13, 05:59 PM

I build a SBGH antenna and put it in my attic, pointing a little south of HC (I think I pick up CF channels from the back). Getting good reception on all channels except Global (ch 6) which is intermittent. I built a VHF dipole antenna out of 300 ohm twin which I plan to combine with the GH. On its own it seems to work. Have not yet put it in my attic as I want to join the antenna, and reading here it seems a UVSJ combiner is what I need.

Anyone know where you can buy one in Ottawa? I seem to stuck in $20-40 shipping charge land for a $4 item from US sites.

tvlurker · 2012-03-13, 11:34 PM

Check out my recent posting in the Ontario Parts and Servce Where to buy thread. I saw a UVSJ there this morning. I think it was 20 bucks for one made by Antennas Direct. Not bad considering it's $18.99 on AD's website. (AD calls it a UHF/VHF Combiner)

Jase88 · 2012-03-14, 02:12 PM

^^^
I recommend the AD VHF/UHF combiner, as it performs well and comes with an excellent weather enclosure.

GazzaT · 2012-03-14, 06:55 PM

Thank you TVLurker I went to the shop on Carling today and looked at the UVSJ you mentioned for $20. They also have the CM 7777 pre-amp which has separate UHF/VHF inputs - I was thinking it might improve my more marginal signal levels (CHRO 43.1 and City 65.1 they work most days but not 100%) so as I only spend $15 on antenna materials (And they said I could bring it back it it didn't work) I splurged on the CM7777 instead.

I set it up in the attic and it works great. With my 56" dipole Global (Ch 6) is now great (My HDHomerun is showing 100% signal 89% quality whatever that is). I am pulling in another channel CHCH (11.1) I was not getting before, all over channels work fine and am getting over 90% signal for all locals (vs ~50-60% for many of them.

GazzaT · 2012-03-17, 04:29 PM

Correction my dipole is 5' 6" not 56" (So 66") sorry typo.

Someone asked me about it, it is nothing fancy essentially a strip of 300 ohm twin wire taped to some plastic conduit with a 300/75 ohm balun soldered on, and directed at camp fortune (It just rests on a couple of screws attached to studs in the attic.

2012-03-06, 02:32 PM	#841
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	You will never find 3dB as that is the theoretical minimum. In the real world 3.5dB is the minimum you can expect to find. __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-03-07, 09:37 AM	#843
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	DCor, With a good outdoor (or maybe attic) antenna, you should be able to add WNPI (PBS) and maybe even WNYF-LD (CBS and FOX). It should also help the reliability of the locals you are having trouble with. __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-03-12, 03:24 PM	#845
rosenqui Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kanata, Ontario. Posts: 386	Rural Kanata near Carp I'm in rural Kanata near Carp - on the Kanata side of the Carp ridge. TV Fool report I've got a large UHF/VHF/FM antenna in the attic pointed at Camp Fortune. It's been up there since the house was built in 2000 and hasn't been used all that much, but now I'm looking to get rid of satellite TV so I'm motivated to improve our OTA reception. I don't know the antenna brand/model - I'd have to get up in the attic to check, but it's a relatively large UHF/VHF/FM unit like you saw all the time in the "old days". The main problem with the current setup is that I don't get any of the channels from Herbert's Corners reliably, if at all. If I use an FM trap + UHF/VHF amplifier, the most sensitive ATSC tuners I have will pick up some HC channels, but even then there's picture breakup. As you can see from my TV Fool report, CF and HC are almost exactly 90 degrees apart at my location. Does that mean I'm unlikely to get good results with a single antenna at my distances (12.2 miles to CF, 22.4 to HC)? I don't want to lose VHF-Lo (Global) since they carry a lot of the shows we watch. I don't mind trying to install a different antenna in the attic myself, but if I need to gang 2 antennas or go with a roof mount I'd just as soon have a pro do the work. From what I've read, just adding another antenna aimed at HC might cause interference with the signal I get off the existing CF antenna. So... can this work with 1 antenna, and if not, where does one find an OTA antenna installer in Ottawa? I found nothing for installers in the forum, and a web search just turns up one guy on Kijiji. There are lots of places that will sell the gear for a do-it-yourself install, but I'm not having any luck finding someone who'll go up on the roof or do whatever is necessary to get a good signal. I'll make contact with the guy on Kijiji, but in the meantime it would be good to hear recommendations from others who've had work done.

2012-03-12, 03:40 PM	#846
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	rosenqui, while 90 degree separation isn't ideal, it should still be possible to receive everything without rotating or switching. Looking at your TVFool report, it isn't surprising that with your antenna pointed towards CF, you aren't receiving anything from HC reliably. Since your current antenna is working well for Global and all VHF stations are from CF, I would leave that antenna as is and use it as a VHF antenna. I would then add a UHF antenna with a wide beam-width (such as the C2) for UHF and point it between the two towers (maybe more towards HC since they are weaker). The antennas could be combined with your pre-amp if it has a built in combiner, otherwise you can add a UVSJ. I wouldn't rule out an attic mount and doing it yourself. I don't know of any good installers and a bad one may sell you a bunch of stuff you don't need. This is something you can do. __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-03-12, 05:01 PM	#848
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	Yes, the UVSJ would do as you say (though CBOFT may be moving to UHF soon). The beamwidth spec of an antenna is what they call the 3dB beamwidth, which is the range over which the signal received will be more than half of the maximum (typically straight ahead). It does not mean there will be no signal beyond that. The other option would be to combine two UHF antennas, but the disadvantage of that is you will loose more than half the signal strength with a broadband combiner and may run into other difficulties. __________________ Link to my TVFool results is in my profile Homepage URL. I suggest others do the same.

2012-03-07, 12:00 AM	#842
DCor Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Barrhaven (Ottawa), On. Canada. (3 blocks north of Strandherd Dr. & 2 east of Claridge Dr.) Posts: 101	Hi Everyone, I'm fairly new to the OTA adventure, however I do remember back in the 60s Dad had quite the system going on when we lived at CFB Trenton, I loved the cartoons we could pull in from across the lake! I see many OTA'ers poping up on this forum within my area, I'm a couple of blocks from Claridge & Strandherd, and quite satisfied with the channels I'm able to recieve with a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna. It sits about 10' up from the ground at the south end of the house. I'm in a bungalow and pretty much surrounded by two storey houses. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b86cc812a9393 4.1 - CBOTHD 6.1 - CIII-HD 9.1 - CBOFT * 11.1 - CHCHHD 13.1 - CJOHHD 14.1 - OMNI2HD 24.1 - TVOHD 30.1 - TELE-Quebec HD* 34.1 - CFGS* 40.1 - CHOT 42.1 - CTS HD* 43.1 - CHRO HD (CTV2) 60.1 - OMNI 1 HD* 65.1 - CityTV HD * I may have been able to get these in the recent past but having trouble with them lately.

2012-03-09, 08:19 PM	#844
DCor Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Barrhaven (Ottawa), On. Canada. (3 blocks north of Strandherd Dr. & 2 east of Claridge Dr.) Posts: 101	Hi Roger1818, Thanks for your reply. I have been moving my antenna around, even a slight change can make a big difference, finding this true with City, Omni1 and Omni 2. Would love to explore a roof or attic antenna, but with the others living in the house will have to keep cable for now. I find the HD PQ so much better OTA!!

2012-03-12, 04:03 PM	#847
rosenqui Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kanata, Ontario. Posts: 386	Interesting... so the UVSJ would filter out the UHF from the existing antenna I take it, meaning it's just being used for Global, CBOFT, and CJOH. I didn't consider that option originally because the specs on the forum sponsor site for an antenna like the ClearStream 2 says it has "an extremely wide beam width of 70 degrees", and 70 degrees < 90 degrees. If you guys are convinced that it can work I don't mind spending a bit of time and money to try it out. Would there be any point in using a pre-amp instead of the UVSJ or is that likely to provide too strong a signal? The feed from the attic goes to the wiring room in the basement via RG6 coax - I'd guess 30-40' tops, so there shouldn't be much signal loss. Any other suggestions are welcome.

2012-03-13, 01:08 PM	#849
cayemar Rookie Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Nepean, ON (Woodroffe/Rideaucrest) Posts: 11	Roof top antenna installers and what about lightning? Well we are completely cable TV free and picking up between 8 and 14 channels with our amplified indoor antenna depending upon placement. I am really considering a roof top antenna with a signal booster and a connection to the old cable lines in the house as I mentioned once earlier. Problem is I really don't see myself up there above the second storey trying to mount the antenna. And so I wonder, as was previously mentioned in the thread, if there is a local expert who does these kinds of installs?? My wife is also concerned about lightning. How does one protect oneself from lightning strikes with a roof top antenna? Thanks for any info you can provide.

2012-03-13, 01:45 PM	#850
Jase88 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kitchener, ON Posts: 4,109	cayemar, for installers, please check out the "Where can I buy?" forum for threads on installers. Please also check out the Grounding Info and Standards thread. Specifically, I'd do a search through the thread for "Lightning Arrestors". __________________ DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct 91-XG & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection

2012-03-13, 05:59 PM	#851
GazzaT Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kanata, Katamivik Posts: 5	UVSJ diplexer in Ottawa I build a SBGH antenna and put it in my attic, pointing a little south of HC (I think I pick up CF channels from the back). Getting good reception on all channels except Global (ch 6) which is intermittent. I built a VHF dipole antenna out of 300 ohm twin which I plan to combine with the GH. On its own it seems to work. Have not yet put it in my attic as I want to join the antenna, and reading here it seems a UVSJ combiner is what I need. Anyone know where you can buy one in Ottawa? I seem to stuck in $20-40 shipping charge land for a $4 item from US sites.

2012-03-13, 11:34 PM	#852
tvlurker Veteran Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Craig Henry (Greenbank/Hunt Club), Nepean, ON Posts: 2,733	Check out my recent posting in the Ontario Parts and Servce Where to buy thread. I saw a UVSJ there this morning. I think it was 20 bucks for one made by Antennas Direct. Not bad considering it's $18.99 on AD's website. (AD calls it a UHF/VHF Combiner)

2012-03-14, 02:12 PM	#853
Jase88 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kitchener, ON Posts: 4,109	^^^ I recommend the AD VHF/UHF combiner, as it performs well and comes with an excellent weather enclosure. __________________ DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct 91-XG & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection

2012-03-14, 06:55 PM	#854
GazzaT Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kanata, Katamivik Posts: 5	Thank you TVLurker I went to the shop on Carling today and looked at the UVSJ you mentioned for $20. They also have the CM 7777 pre-amp which has separate UHF/VHF inputs - I was thinking it might improve my more marginal signal levels (CHRO 43.1 and City 65.1 they work most days but not 100%) so as I only spend $15 on antenna materials (And they said I could bring it back it it didn't work) I splurged on the CM7777 instead. I set it up in the attic and it works great. With my 56" dipole Global (Ch 6) is now great (My HDHomerun is showing 100% signal 89% quality whatever that is). I am pulling in another channel CHCH (11.1) I was not getting before, all over channels work fine and am getting over 90% signal for all locals (vs ~50-60% for many of them.

2012-03-17, 04:29 PM	#855
GazzaT Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kanata, Katamivik Posts: 5	Correction my dipole is 5' 6" not 56" (So 66") sorry typo. Someone asked me about it, it is nothing fancy essentially a strip of 300 ohm twin wire taped to some plastic conduit with a 300/75 ohm balun soldered on, and directed at camp fortune (It just rests on a couple of screws attached to studs in the attic.

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