ON - Kanata, Barrhaven, Nepean, West of Greenbelt - OTA

[Rudster]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I agree it is likely tuned for channel 7 and as such is an excellent antenna for receiving WWNY and WNYF (SD).
I also certainly agree that replacing the pre-amp is the first thing Rudster should do.

My next question is how is he combining the Yagi and the Bowtie antennas? Optimally he should be using a signal injector such as a Jointenna. If he is using a broadband signal combiner, he could gain another 3dB of signal with this.

Anecdotal note...I think the Yagi is a good channel 7 antenna. I thought about it some more and remember that I got it 30 years ago (1980) when we bought our first house on Mississippi Lake near Carleton Place. The elderly gentleman that we bought the house from was a Ham radio enthusiast so he probably knew something about TV antennas too. When we moved twice into other homes over the next ten years I took the tower and antennas with me, set them up and replicated the compass bearing old Roy Moulton had them set at on Mississippi Lake. The last time we moved which was 20 years ago I added the preamp which made a remarkable difference for all channels.
The only thing I miss about the old analogue channel 7 is you could always watch it even if it got snowy and scratchy! The new digital channels WWNY 7-1 and WNYF 7-2 (SD) pixel sometimes and then is gone for a bit. I mostly loose the signal when it is windy-cloudy-raining.

If I get up the nerve to climb the tower again...I will try a better preamp.

I am pretty sure the two antennas are joined this way. twin leads from each antenna go to a box and one lead from there goes to the preamp and the rest is coaxial.

As for the Bowtie, it certainly is a curiosity. I am not convinced that it is for channel 6 only as the director is significantly smaller than the reflector. I am thinking it was designed for all of VHF, though it does seem to be doing a good job of receiving UHF for him as well. If he turns it a bit more towards Herbert's Corners he might be able to pick up CJMT-DT on 66, though it might be on too high a channel for that antenna. Otherwise, he might want to add a UHF antenna to the mix.

I have never seen another antenna like that Bowtie but it does seem to work pretty good for the 30 mile broadcast signals. The digital channels CBC 4-1, Sun 20-1 and OMNI 1 27-1 are perfect always. We also get Global 6, CJOH 13 , OMNI 2 14, TVO 24, A Channel 43 and CITY 65 very good to perfect. (I forgot to put 65 in the original post).

I was thinking the same thing...that I should try rotating the Bowtie a little more toward Herberts Corners.

After the analog shutdown, he might be able to replace the bowtie with a VHF-HI antenna, assuming Global doesn't use Ch.6.

This sounds like a good idea and I might try that next year.

Thank you very much to all of you.
I have learned so much and it is such an enjoyable way to learn.

All the best!

RD in CP

[tvlurker]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The only channels that you might be able to pull in with a new UHF antenna would be CJMT-DT (Ch.66) and WNPI (Ch.23) plus its sub-channels.

And since CJMT-PT-2 is scheduled to move to channel 20 in 2011 (and with as much as 845kW), the existing antenna will probably be good enough.

That leaves PBS from Norwood or Watertown as likely reasons for improving distant UHF reception .

[rajugsw]

Originally Posted by tvlurker

Alternatively, he could use a preamp with separate UHF and VHF inputs -- feed the the Channel 7 yagi only to the preamp, and split the bowtie antenna with a uhf/vhf combiner in reverse, and feed only the uhf side to the uhf input on the preamp. The signals on the Ottawa VHF locals shouldn't need preamplification. Or, if the OP wants to invest in a separate UHF antenna for Herberts Corners, then feed that to the UHF input, and leave the Ottawa unamplified as an input to s seaparate combiner.

What he really needs is a DBGH or a parabolic UHF with a very low noise preamp to get ABC/CW WWTI on 21 and WPBS on 41 from Watertown.

My DBGH 10 with Gapless NAROD's has received ABC/CW WWTI (50.1, 50.2) rock solid ALL winter. Tonight I'm getting FOX 28.1 (yes, the LO TV signal from Watertown in HD) & 68.1 FOX out of Syracuse in fading in from time to time. It must be getting warmer outside cause there's no trop scat scheduled this week.

[Rudster]

Originally Posted by rajugsw

My DBGH 10 with Gapless NAROD's has received ABC/CW WWTI (50.1, 50.2) rock solid ALL winter. Tonight I'm getting FOX 28.1 (yes, the LO TV signal from Watertown in HD) & 68.1 FOX out of Syracuse in fading in from time to time. It must be getting warmer outside cause there's no trop scat scheduled this week.

Is that Montague twp between Smith Falls and Ashton?
If yes...Howdy neighbor!
How high is your antenna?
Do you have a rotor?

Rudy Dyck
Carleton Place

[stampeder]

If you go to a post made by another member and click on that person's user name to the left you'll see a menu that has a link to show their previous posts - you can look up his OTA gear and other info that way.

[REW]

TV fool results;

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...cd7271cda15643

Primarily interested in DTV.Presently inherited 30ft tower(and pole) plus CM rotor(must replace).No ant preamp but want CM7777 asap.Lots of tall trees50-80FT!(evergreen)here but signals like 18-1/2/3 getting thru consistently.Is Digiaire pro signal finder a good idea or just be guided with TVfool results?Considering 91XG as DIY GH not likely for me.
Ron.

[stampeder]

Some people like the Digiaire Pro signal finders, others don't. You can read or ask about them and other types in here:

Signal Analyzers and Meters for OTA

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by REW

Primarily interested in DTV.Presently inherited 30ft tower(and pole) plus CM rotor(must replace).No ant preamp but want CM7777 asap.Lots of tall trees50-80FT!(evergreen)here but signals like 18-1/2/3 getting thru consistently.Is Digiaire pro signal finder a good idea or just be guided with TVfool results?Considering 91XG as DIY GH not likely for me.
Ron.

Looks like you are in a good location. Not sure what atnenna you currently have, but it may not be worth replacing it if you can pick up WNPI (18.x) reliably. The key is to get that rotor working.

As for a pre-amp, that depends more on your setup? Are you splitting the signal to multiple TVs or do you have more that about 50' of cable? If so, it could be useful, otherwise it likely won't help much.

Regarding the signal finder, if you are using a rotor, I probably wouldn't bother as long as the signal strength meter in your tuner works reasonably well. The signal finder is great when aiming antennas manually as you can bring it up on the roof with you and see the effects immediately.

Word of warning about the 91XG. It is a UHF only antenna, so it won't work very well for any VHF stations (such as WWNY. CJOH and CBOFT are also likely to be on VHF post transition). You could always combine it with a good VHF only antenna though.

[REW]

Roger1818:
Thanks for that input esp since we are close at hand and have similar problems,if not solutions.
My antenna looks like about 50element VHF/UHF CM?(channel master).I always thought it could serve as VHF local backup antenna on separate manual switch.Thus 91XG should do most of what I want.New CM 9521 rotor is part of the plan and is a key part.I am presently using 50ft RG6 and plan to run same to 91XG.Hoping to get comments on my TVfool results or better still get you to sample libations while seeing site.
Ron.

[vfgilber]

Hi from Barrhaven,

Here are the results of my tvfool report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9fbee5563ba1e0

Could you please give me some feedback on whether one omni-directional antenna like the 3000a would be useful, or if I should go with two directional antennas.

I have the money, time, and facilities for both, so it's just a question of which.

Thanks,

Vince

[roger1818]

vfgilber, it all depends what channels you want to receive.

An omnidirectional antenna will not receive any of the American channels. There is also a good chance it won't receive CJMT-DT since the antenna's gain rolls off for the upper channel frequencies. Global (analog channel 6) will also likely be very poor.

If you go the two antenna route, you would be much better off using an A/B switch to select the antenna than trying to join them together.

For UHF, a third option would be to use a reflector-less antenna and try to receive signals off of both sides. At 126 degrees separation between the two local towers, this might work. You would then need a separate antenna for VHF.

[tvlurker]

Originally Posted by roger1818

vfgilber, it all depends what channels you want to receive.

An omnidirectional antenna will not receive any of the American channels. There is also a good chance it won't receive CJMT-DT since the antenna's gain rolls off for the upper channel frequencies. Global (analog channel 6) will also likely be very poor.

If you go the two antenna route, you would be much better off using an A/B switch to select the antenna than trying to join them together.

For UHF, a third option would be to use a reflector-less antenna and try to receive signals off of both sides. At 126 degrees separation between the two local towers, this might work. You would then need a separate antenna for VHF.

It also depends on whther you want only digital channels. For digital local channels, you may be able to get by with a single rooftop antenna aimed midway between the two towers. There is enough signal in the air for you to get the loal channels off-axis. However, you may suffer from un-watchable ghosting on the analog channels.

You are well positioned for an external antenna to get PBS and possibly even CBS and Fox with an antenna pointed towards the states.

[vfgilber]

Hi TVLurker and Roger1818,

I'm really confused. My goal at the moment is to have one mast on my roof with an antenna that will pick up channels from the two towers roughly north and south of my house (almost 180degrees) without a rotor or having to flick a switch every time I flick back and forth between two channels that happen to each come from one tower.

Could I get away with a double-bay gray-hoverman without a reflector (or strip the reflector off a CM4228) for the digital, and then add a vhf antenna above it at the top of the antenna to get the analogue channels?

I really just want to have a few channels for the one-hour-max I watch each day.

Thanks,

Vince

[tvlurker]

roughly north and south of my house (almost 180degrees)

I'm not sure what you mean. Camp Fortune is at 0 degrees magnetic, Herberts Corners is at 124, and South COlton (WNPI/ soon WNYF-LD) is at 154.

If you're only trying to get local stations, a single antenna pointed at 60 degrees should get you both towers in digital. You may have to favour one direction or another to get the weakest station (CKXT-DT from CF, CITY or OMNI2 from HC).

If you want to get WNPI, you might be able to get by with a reflectorless antenna, but you may run out of margin during bad weather.

Also, a reflectorless antenna may make WNPI harder to get, as you way be more susceptible to adjacent channel interference from CBOFT-DT on 22 and TVO on 24 from camp fortune.

To get WNYF-LD (Fox/CBS from South Colton, starting next month) you would probably need a a high gain yagi to avoid adjacent channel interference from CITY-DT at Herberts Cornes (HC) on 17.

So the bottom line is, what stations do you want to get:

1. All analog ghost-free (a moot point in 14 months, as they will be gone)
2. All local digital (for now, CBC, SRC, SUNTV, OMNI1, OMNI2, CITY. by Aug 2011 all 15 local stations, give or take SUNTV if they decide to shutdown OTA)
3. PBS from South Colton (WNPI Norwood) and/or Lyon Mountain (WCFE Plattsburgh)
4. CBS/Fox from either South Colton, or Watertown (would require a deidicated channel 7 VHF-Low antenna)
5. CKWS CBC Kingston from Franktown, for now in analog

[Werryner]

Originally Posted by tvlurker

So the bottom line is, what stations do you want to get:

1. All analog ghost-free (a moot point in 14 months, as they will be gone)
2. All local digital (for now, CBS, SRC, SUNTV, OMNI1, OMNI2, CITY. by Aug 2011 all 15 local stations, give or take SUNTV if they decide to shutdown OTA)
3. PBS from South Colton (WNPI Norwood) and/or Lyon Mountain (WCFE Plattsburgh)
4. CBS/Fox from either South COlton, or Watertown
5. CKWS CBC Kingston from Franktown, for now in analog

Just adding my experience (I am exactly 180 degrees between towers)

compare your tv fool with mine: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9fbe7e737d1903

and I get TV Lurker's 1 and 2 with a very simple set up - CM4221 with reflector removed, your angles are quite a way off so pointing a reflectored antenna between them could work as has been said. Options 3,4 and 5 are theoretically possible for me too but probably a lot of work. My couch is too comfortable. You might have a better chance (or a bad couch).

(Also TVlurkers 2nd option typo should read CBC, not CBS)