ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

Crankshaft · 2010-03-24, 09:21 PM

Getting started.
I live just north of the Racetrack/Casino, Quinn Rd

I have lived with rabbit ears for years and want to upgrade to an outside antenna system for 3 TVs picking up as much UHF and VHF signals as possible to start with. By living with cheap rabbit ears running two TVs for years, I know I will be very happy with the improvements I will have going to a proper outside Anenna system for analog and digital signals.

I have been reading posts for 2 days now to get myself started and I think I have information overload and there are so amny things to consider.

I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations.
I understand I probably do not want a long distance setup as most station are fairly close.
I am not sure of the antennas I need for my area/use.

Does anyone live near me that has been doing this for a while who can help me get started?

Cheers,

mlord · 2010-03-28, 10:45 AM

If you don't mind the drive over to Bells Corners (opposite end of Ottawa from you), then you could borrow a couple of antennas from me to try out there.

I have a GH-8 Rev.2, and a small UHF yagi, plus some coax to hook them up with.

How those perform (or not) will help guide your eventual purchase decisions. All it will cost you is the gas for the trip over to here.

Cheers

roger1818 · 2010-03-29, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crankshaft

I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations.

Welcome to the forum. We will try to help you out as best as we can. Could you please post the link to your TVFool results? It will give us a much better idea of what you will need.

Crankshaft · 2010-03-30, 09:08 PM

My TV Fool details are:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b7c8fd70ef8029

roger1818 · 2010-03-31, 10:09 AM

Crankshaft, you are certainly in a great location for OTA! Camp Fortune and Herberts corners are about 160 degrees apart so you should be able to pick up the stations from one off of the back end of the antenna. Also, for the local transmissions, the signal strengths all look good so any quality suburban VHF/UHF combo antenna should give good results.

If you wanted, you also have a good chance of picking up a PBS station. WNPI is almost directly behind HC, and is is more than 60 dB weaker than a bunch of stations from it, so it might be tough to pick up without lots of notch filters. As a result it might be easier to receive WCFE, even though it is slightly weaker. To receive this, I would point a deep fringe UHF antenna towards it and combine it with a suburban VHF antenna pointed towards CF (HC won't have any VHF stations post transition).

One other thing to consider in all of this is there is a chance that VHF-LO (channels 2-6) won't be used post transition (though that has not been decided yet). Since the antenna elements for VHF-LO are by far the longest and furthest apart, antennas for VHF-HI and UHF can be made significantly smaller. Waiting a little bit for the dust to settle may permit you to have a smaller antenna, which is good from both an aesthetics perspective and is less likely to be damaged in an ice storm. Regardless, it would be good to do some trials with the antennas mlord has kindly offered to lend you.

james039 · 2010-04-07, 10:48 PM

Rogers still desperately needs to boost the power on Ch. 27 and 66 (omni channels). I peaked my antenna to get Ch. 14, 32, 43, 60, 65 as clear as possible. Ch. 65 is pristine (and the rest are quite watchable, even 32, which where I live is usually impossible to pick up), but the digitals seem like a total lost cause. I can't even get a lock, let alone scan them. Are they way lower powered than the analog channels??

I generated a TV fool report in hopes of some suggestions. Would a power boost on their digital stations be coming soon? Or should I give up and invest in a roof-mount setup (and would that be worth it for some of the more distant PBS/CBS stations?) I see them in the gray which implies to me they are impossible.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9c6b7e9e6c5d68

TaylorTech · 2010-04-07, 11:26 PM

Hmm... You're gonna need a good antenna to get those. How is your line of sight?

james039 · 2010-04-08, 12:20 AM

I only have line of sight to the camp fortune stations. I think I need to get about 60ft or so of elevation before Herbert's Corners is line of sight, and that is just not practical for my situation.

mlord · 2010-04-08, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james039

Rogers still desperately needs to boost the power on Ch. 27 and 66 (omni channels). I peaked my antenna to get Ch. 14, 32, 43, 60, 65 as clear as possible. Ch. 65 is pristine (and the rest are quite watchable

Given that 65 is clear (really clear??), then you should be able to get 66-1. If it's not working, then perhaps a more modern ATSC tuner might help?

I have an HVR-950Q USB stick, with the very modern XC5000 chip inside. It's portable, and loanable. Want to try it?

Cheers

GeoStar · 2010-04-08, 09:18 AM

I could only get 66 with a direct line to HC plus a pre amp , I use the kitz right now but the 7777 and pa19 also did the trick.

You are below the ridge line for the ottawa river valley and need some extra boost to bring in that olde 66

and when it snows 66 goes under ..

Hey you guys getting cbc 4 digital right now . its been down for me for the last few days ?

roger1818 · 2010-04-08, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlord

Given that 65 is clear (really clear??), then you should be able to get 66-1.

Not necessarily. The broadcast antenna for 66-1 is slightly lower than the one for 65 and since james039 has a 2-edge diffraction to HC, that could be a factor. Reception on 65 will test his antenna's capabilities and reception of 60 (and 14) will test LOS issues (all 4 Omni broadcasts use the same antenna).

It is common to have issues receiving 66-1, but since he is also having issues with 27-1, I would say he needs to raise his antenna. LOS may not be necessary, but getting it down to a 1-edge diffraction would make things much better. Even if that isn't feasible, every little bit will help.

james039 · 2010-04-08, 11:49 AM

Yep, CBOT-DT 25 (4.1) is working for me. I also get (20)20.1 and (22)9.1

The tuner is brand new (just got a 40" Sony BRAVIA) during this year's boxing day sales. I also have a USB stick for my laptop(I think it's the same one you mentioned mlord), which again gets 0% on 27/66. Thank you for the offer though

Ch. 65 looks about the same as analog cable. But Ch. 4, 9, 13, 24, 30, 34 and 40 all look *better* than analog cable (no snow at all, maybe some ghosting). Ch 11 actually is the only channel that is so snowy I wouldn't bother to watch it. Ch. 6, 14, 32, 43, 60 are all in the category of quite snowy, but watchable (though some may feel otherwise), though Ch.14 seems to have worse interference issues than 60.

65 is the only station from HC that rivals the Camp Fortune channels in terms of clarity.

Thank you everyone for the help.

roger1818 · 2010-04-08, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james039

Ch. 65 looks about the same as analog cable.
...
Ch. 6, 14, 32, 43, 60 are all in the category of quite snowy, but watchable (though some may feel otherwise), though Ch.14 seems to have worse interference issues than 60.

65 is the only station from HC that rivals the Camp Fortune channels in terms of clarity.

It defiantly looks like elevation is your problem. Try playing with the "Antenna height" in TVFool and see if that makes much of a difference.

Where is your antenna currently and what make/model is it?

james039 · 2010-04-08, 02:30 PM

TV Fool only starts showing the two Omni DT stations as "LOS" at 71 ft. They go from 2-Edge to 1-Edge at 16 ft.

The antenna I'm using now is an indoor UHF loop with two VHF poles which are extended to full length. I'm about 10 ft. off the ground in a house. There is no amplifier on the antenna, but I was told that is bad for digital anyway.

roger1818 · 2010-04-08, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james039

TV Fool only starts showing the two Omni DT stations as "LOS" at 71 ft. They go from 2-Edge to 1-Edge at 16 ft.

Putting the antenna on the roof will make a huge difference then.

Quote:

The antenna I'm using now is an indoor UHF loop with two VHF poles which are extended to full length.

For UHF, there are better options. Though not designed for indoor use, a 2 bay bowtie is a good option. To improve channel 11, try shortening the poles to half length. They should only be full length for VHF-LO (channels 2-6).

Quote:

There is no amplifier on the antenna, but I was told that is bad for digital anyway.

Not just digital. Amplifiers should never be used for indoor antennas (analog or digital). They are typically only useful when you have long cable runs or are splitting the signal for multiple TVs. Even then you should use a good quality one, not the junk they put in indoor antennas.

2010-03-24, 09:21 PM	#1
Crankshaft Rookie Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2	ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA Getting started. I live just north of the Racetrack/Casino, Quinn Rd I have lived with rabbit ears for years and want to upgrade to an outside antenna system for 3 TVs picking up as much UHF and VHF signals as possible to start with. By living with cheap rabbit ears running two TVs for years, I know I will be very happy with the improvements I will have going to a proper outside Anenna system for analog and digital signals. I have been reading posts for 2 days now to get myself started and I think I have information overload and there are so amny things to consider. I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations. I understand I probably do not want a long distance setup as most station are fairly close. I am not sure of the antennas I need for my area/use. Does anyone live near me that has been doing this for a while who can help me get started? Cheers, Last edited by stampeder; 2010-03-24 at 11:40 PM. Reason: Moved to Ottawa reception thread

2010-03-30, 09:08 PM	#4
Crankshaft Rookie Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2	Starting up in Ottawa South (Leitrim/Albion) My TV Fool details are: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b7c8fd70ef8029

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2010-03-28, 10:45 AM	#2
mlord Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,545	If you don't mind the drive over to Bells Corners (opposite end of Ottawa from you), then you could borrow a couple of antennas from me to try out there. I have a GH-8 Rev.2, and a small UHF yagi, plus some coax to hook them up with. How those perform (or not) will help guide your eventual purchase decisions. All it will cost you is the gas for the trip over to here. Cheers

2010-03-31, 10:09 AM	#5
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,626	Crankshaft, you are certainly in a great location for OTA! Camp Fortune and Herberts corners are about 160 degrees apart so you should be able to pick up the stations from one off of the back end of the antenna. Also, for the local transmissions, the signal strengths all look good so any quality suburban VHF/UHF combo antenna should give good results. If you wanted, you also have a good chance of picking up a PBS station. WNPI is almost directly behind HC, and is is more than 60 dB weaker than a bunch of stations from it, so it might be tough to pick up without lots of notch filters. As a result it might be easier to receive WCFE, even though it is slightly weaker. To receive this, I would point a deep fringe UHF antenna towards it and combine it with a suburban VHF antenna pointed towards CF (HC won't have any VHF stations post transition). One other thing to consider in all of this is there is a chance that VHF-LO (channels 2-6) won't be used post transition (though that has not been decided yet). Since the antenna elements for VHF-LO are by far the longest and furthest apart, antennas for VHF-HI and UHF can be made significantly smaller. Waiting a little bit for the dust to settle may permit you to have a smaller antenna, which is good from both an aesthetics perspective and is less likely to be damaged in an ice storm. Regardless, it would be good to do some trials with the antennas mlord has kindly offered to lend you.

2010-04-07, 10:48 PM	#6
james039 Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 338	Rogers still desperately needs to boost the power on Ch. 27 and 66 (omni channels). I peaked my antenna to get Ch. 14, 32, 43, 60, 65 as clear as possible. Ch. 65 is pristine (and the rest are quite watchable, even 32, which where I live is usually impossible to pick up), but the digitals seem like a total lost cause. I can't even get a lock, let alone scan them. Are they way lower powered than the analog channels?? I generated a TV fool report in hopes of some suggestions. Would a power boost on their digital stations be coming soon? Or should I give up and invest in a roof-mount setup (and would that be worth it for some of the more distant PBS/CBS stations?) I see them in the gray which implies to me they are impossible. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9c6b7e9e6c5d68

2010-04-07, 11:26 PM	#7
TaylorTech Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Russell, Ontario (40 clicks from the hill) Posts: 166	Hmm... You're gonna need a good antenna to get those. How is your line of sight?

2010-04-08, 12:20 AM	#8
james039 Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 338	I only have line of sight to the camp fortune stations. I think I need to get about 60ft or so of elevation before Herbert's Corners is line of sight, and that is just not practical for my situation.

2010-04-08, 09:18 AM	#10
GeoStar Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: frik&glic land Posts: 167	I could only get 66 with a direct line to HC plus a pre amp , I use the kitz right now but the 7777 and pa19 also did the trick. You are below the ridge line for the ottawa river valley and need some extra boost to bring in that olde 66 and when it snows 66 goes under .. Hey you guys getting cbc 4 digital right now . its been down for me for the last few days ?

2010-04-08, 11:49 AM	#12
james039 Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 338	Yep, CBOT-DT 25 (4.1) is working for me. I also get (20)20.1 and (22)9.1 The tuner is brand new (just got a 40" Sony BRAVIA) during this year's boxing day sales. I also have a USB stick for my laptop(I think it's the same one you mentioned mlord), which again gets 0% on 27/66. Thank you for the offer though Ch. 65 looks about the same as analog cable. But Ch. 4, 9, 13, 24, 30, 34 and 40 all look better than analog cable (no snow at all, maybe some ghosting). Ch 11 actually is the only channel that is so snowy I wouldn't bother to watch it. Ch. 6, 14, 32, 43, 60 are all in the category of quite snowy, but watchable (though some may feel otherwise), though Ch.14 seems to have worse interference issues than 60. 65 is the only station from HC that rivals the Camp Fortune channels in terms of clarity. Thank you everyone for the help.

2010-04-08, 02:30 PM	#14
james039 Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 338	TV Fool only starts showing the two Omni DT stations as "LOS" at 71 ft. They go from 2-Edge to 1-Edge at 16 ft. The antenna I'm using now is an indoor UHF loop with two VHF poles which are extended to full length. I'm about 10 ft. off the ground in a house. There is no amplifier on the antenna, but I was told that is bad for digital anyway.