Any point in upscaling to 1080i on a 720p native TV? also PS3, Hitachi 57F500..

[neptunet]

Hi, I have a question that is well, summed up pretty nicely in the title. There seem to be a few very knowledgeable people on this forum and some with this TV so I thought I might ask. The Hitachi 57F500 has a horizontal resolution of 1366 lines if I remember right. I scoured the Internet a few years ago and I thought I pulled up some specs document but I can't find it now. A lot of sales sites have it listed at 1280 lines of resolution. I do remember it listed as "lines" and not a standard resolution or pixels.

So, I've just got a PS3 and I am trying to figure out the best resolution is. Really I guess it comes to:

1) Is there any point in viewing 1080i content on the 57F500 when the same content is available at 720p?
2) The 57F500 IS only 720p, right?
3) Well, would there be any point to upscaling a 720p game to 1080i?

I know I can just turn off 1080i in the PS3 menu and lock it to 720p.

For your consideration, I did a test on an Xbox 360 game called Oblivion on a different HDTV that I figured out was native 720p. The Xbox 360 had set itself to 1080i automatically. Since Oblivion I believe was developed mainly as a PC game I knew that graphics scale with settings. I thought it might carry over to the Xbox 360 version so I did a test. Basically, in a short test the game looked identical in 720p and 1080i except there was a missing water effect in the 1080i resolution. Maybe a bug? Or maybe the game performance was suffering? I'm not sure. Food for thought.

Thanks for reading!

[eljay]

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[wprager]

It's a CRT-RPTV, right? Technically it has *no* native resolution, but it certainly can display all 1080 scan lines of a 1080i signal.

That said, if the action is fast and furious you may be better off with a progressive-scan image, even at the lower resolution (which you probably would not notice anyway).

Bottom line, try both and decide which is better. It may very well be that the upscaling process makes for a crappy picture, in which case 720 p would look better.

[eljay]

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[wprager]

Interesting, I own a 57F520 and don't remember reading about this anywhere.
...

Just checked the manual online and it only mentions 540p in context of the Virtual HD mode. I did not see it implied anywhere that it only outputs 1080i or 540p. Of course that was just the user manual, hell, it didn't even bother describing what "Virtual HD" did.

[eljay]

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[wprager]

Originally Posted by eljay

According to the owner's manual:

Also:

Hitachi Expands Digital Projection Televison Line (PDF)

Hitachi 51F510:
HDTV Questions - 720p or 1080i:

In my defense, "Press this button to toggle between 1080i and 540p" is hardly a description, and I believe that's the only mention of it in the manual.

As for the rest, I guess I have to trust 57, as I still have not seen anything that specifically states my 57F520 does not output 720p. That secodn link you provide is a thread about a 51F510 -- different model number, and the specs link in there is no longer working. I don't think Hitachi's website would still have the specs for a product that has been discontinued for nearly 4 years.

I wonder if this explains why I never did see much of a difference between a DVD and on-demand HD movies. If Rogers is broadcasting them in 720p, then the set downscales that to 540p, which would not look any different from 480p. Also, the few movies I've seen on ABC-HD that were supposed to be HD did not look all that fantastic to me -- now I know why.

(groan) Now I've got to convince my wife that we need a new TV.

[eljay]

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[worth]

Panasonic made an RP-CRT some years ago that could output 480p, 720p, and 1080i, but I believe they were the only manufacturer to do so.

All other CRTs only output 1080i (or 540p, which is the same electronically), and a few output 480p.

[57]

1. This is a 1080i TV (native resolution).

2. There was an option to display incoming SD signals as either 540P (half the lines, progressive), or as 1080i. There was no option for incoming HD, which was all displayed as 1080i, even though 720P was accepted.

3. Either was "virtual HD", but I always found 1080i to be better for my CRT until I got rid of it last month.

4. It cannot display 720P natively, the signal is converted to 1080i.

5. These TVs had 1080 horizontal lines and the typical "resolution" horizontally was about 1000-1200 vertical lines using a test signal, depending on who was "reading" the test signal - hence the comment above that there was no real "native horizontal resolution", like there is with a fixed pixel display.

6. The Panasonic mentioned by worth, above, was indeed available around 2000/2001 and was very expensive - a lot more expensive than the $4-5k range that the 50-60" RPTVs went for at the time.

Here are the FAQs on the topic of native display and upconversion.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73528

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=87543

[FortMacDude]

I have a PS3 and the Hitachi 57F500...when I do my video settings in my PS3 I ask it to automatically output to best resolution my TV accepts. The PS3 says the 57F500 accepts 1080i and 720P. In the PS3 menu, my TV displays that a 1080i signal is being displayed. In most games (including COD MW2) the PS3 uses 720P and the TV indicates that a 720P signal is being displayed.

This is all using a HDMI to DVI interface cable (as the 57F500 doesn't have HDMI).

That's my experience anyways

[57]

and the TV indicates that a 720P signal is being displayed.

...no, it's indicating that a 720P signal is being received. 1080i is being displayed - the TV has no choice. Read the FAQs.

[neptunet]

ahhhh... very interesting. I learned a lot. Thanks, everyone. So, my TV is actually natively 1080i (or as close to that as possible). I see. Now the Virtual HD thing makes sense. So the PS3 should be set to 1080i, right? So really my core question is:

1)Is it a bad idea to convert an HD input signal to a different resolution?
While I'm picking your brain..
2) If I'm looking at 720p game content switched around to 1080i is that a negative?
3) How about 480p from DVD players and the Wii? Is that gonna get jacked up at 540p or 1080i? Out of those two, which is the better stop for 480p?

If there is a FAQ for any of those I won't mind if you point me in the right direction. Thanks, 57 and everyone else.

[scampbell]

So the PS3 should be set to 1080i, right? 1)Is it a bad idea to convert an HD input signal to a different resolution?

You will likely want 1080i sources to output at 1080i. All non-1080i sources will eventually (either at the source or inside your TV) be converted to 1080i -- whether the PS3 or your TV does a better job at upconverting is really up for you to decide with your eyes.

3) How about 480p from DVD players and the Wii? Is that gonna get jacked up at 540p or 1080i? Out of those two, which is the better stop for 480p?

That decision would likely depend on whether it is more important to have a progressive-scan picture or a high-resolution one. Fast movement might look better on 540p (probably best for Wii). For DVDs which are generally 480i, upconverting straight to 1080i might work better (no deinterlacing will be involved).

Again, this is almost certainly something you will want to decide for yourself by trying each option.

[57]

The FAQs at the end of post 10 address all those questions. I suggest a re-read of those.