New HDTV Picture (SD PQ) - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

aca1099 · 2010-01-04, 04:35 PM

I just bought a new Samsung 37inch LCD 1080p.

I do not have an HD box yet, and so i am not expecting full HD picture... BUT when i plug my sd cable in, the picture is WAY worse than it was even with my old TV.... If i get the HD box will channels that still do not broadcast in HD look as bad as this?

57 · 2010-01-04, 04:56 PM

Here's an FAQ on SD PQ. Perhaps this will help explain what you're seeing. The HD STB will do little for SD channel PQ, unless your analogue signal is very poor, creating the problems, in which case digital SD may be better than what you're seeing, although the compression of digital SD may in some cases make the PQ a bit worse.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18580

Also check out the following post, useful for those new to the forum and HD - FAQs, Search Tips, Optimization, etc:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741

JamesK · 2010-01-04, 04:59 PM

Is it actually worse or does it simply look worse on a set with a larger screen? If you have a DVD player that can be configured to upconvert the resolution, you might try a comparison beteen when the DVD player does the upconversion and when the TV does.

aca1099 · 2010-01-04, 05:29 PM

A DVD looks completely fine on the screen.

The cable is split a couple times before it gets to my bedroom so im assuming the signal is pretty poor. The picture is very pixelated and on some channels very fuzzy. (quality does differ from channel to channel)

congo · 2010-01-04, 06:30 PM

I'm sure this will spark some debate but here goes...

I had the luxury of having both cable and Bell sat available in my house for a period of time. I also have both a 50" plasma (Panny) and 32" LCD (LG). I had the LCD running on cable (no cable box) in my bedroom and my plasma was on sat. The plasma also had cable hooked up to it. The sat always provided a better picture on the plasma and even cable looked better on the plasma. In my opinion, LCD just does not do as good a job on regular analog cable and is only a bit better when using a box. HD on cable and LCD is much better but still doesn't compare to plasma. I've since lost my cable so my bedroom set is now fed the analog output from my Bell PVR and it is a better picture than cable ever was.

Congo

PPL4GOLF · 2010-01-04, 09:37 PM

@OP, don't worry...you'll get used to it

To complicate things further,

1. 720p/768p is generally better in rendering SD content than 1080p.

2. Plasma render SD content a lot better than an equivalent LCD counterpart of the same make and same price range.

3. The crappier the SD quality (eg cable), the easier it is to see the above differences.

The dying breed of 720p plasmas are actually the best 'compromized' TV for 50:50 SD:HD viewing. My old LG42PC5D provides almost as good a SD picture quality as a CRT TV's.

Paolo · 2010-01-05, 10:31 AM

you said your plugging the cable directly into the TV's built-in NTSC tuner? then thats Analogue signals you are receiving. If you used a SD STB, you will still receive SD broadcasts, but the QOTI will be vastly improved. you will get closer to 480i type signals. The STB will be doing the converstion, not the Cable Head End.

PPL4GOLF · 2010-01-05, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo

you said your plugging the cable directly into the TV's built-in NTSC tuner? then thats Analogue signals you are receiving. If you used a SD STB, you will still receive SD broadcasts, but the QOTI will be vastly improved. you will get closer to 480i type signals. The STB will be doing the converstion, not the Cable Head End.

Cable box doesn't necessarily mean better quality, you're subjected to factors such as compression. There shouldn't be wavy lines, ghost and snow but highly compressed channels can still look bad.

fitsintite · 2010-01-05, 05:11 PM

Hi

Splitting the cable a couple times is definitely not helping PQ.

Paolo · 2010-01-09, 12:05 PM

although there is compression, its less noticible on a SDTV/CRT.

the cable signal pumps right out of the box to your tv, it travels so short, its less prone to image distortion. where as analogue, it coems from the head end, its amplified so many times, it goes through many splitters, bad wires, by the time it reaches your tv, you will notice not all the channels are very clear compared to digital.

2010-01-04, 04:35 PM	#1
aca1099 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2	New HDTV Picture (SD PQ) I just bought a new Samsung 37inch LCD 1080p. I do not have an HD box yet, and so i am not expecting full HD picture... BUT when i plug my sd cable in, the picture is WAY worse than it was even with my old TV.... If i get the HD box will channels that still do not broadcast in HD look as bad as this?

2010-01-04, 04:56 PM	#2
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,300	Here's an FAQ on SD PQ. Perhaps this will help explain what you're seeing. The HD STB will do little for SD channel PQ, unless your analogue signal is very poor, creating the problems, in which case digital SD may be better than what you're seeing, although the compression of digital SD may in some cases make the PQ a bit worse. http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18580 Also check out the following post, useful for those new to the forum and HD - FAQs, Search Tips, Optimization, etc: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741 __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2010-01-04, 06:30 PM	#5
congo Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 804	I'm sure this will spark some debate but here goes... I had the luxury of having both cable and Bell sat available in my house for a period of time. I also have both a 50" plasma (Panny) and 32" LCD (LG). I had the LCD running on cable (no cable box) in my bedroom and my plasma was on sat. The plasma also had cable hooked up to it. The sat always provided a better picture on the plasma and even cable looked better on the plasma. In my opinion, LCD just does not do as good a job on regular analog cable and is only a bit better when using a box. HD on cable and LCD is much better but still doesn't compare to plasma. I've since lost my cable so my bedroom set is now fed the analog output from my Bell PVR and it is a better picture than cable ever was. Congo __________________ Panny TC-P60GT50, Bell 9242, Yamaha RX-V730, Paradigm Cinema 70, Harmony One, HTPC

2010-01-04, 09:37 PM	#6
PPL4GOLF Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 904	@OP, don't worry...you'll get used to it To complicate things further, 1. 720p/768p is generally better in rendering SD content than 1080p. 2. Plasma render SD content a lot better than an equivalent LCD counterpart of the same make and same price range. 3. The crappier the SD quality (eg cable), the easier it is to see the above differences. The dying breed of 720p plasmas are actually the best 'compromized' TV for 50:50 SD:HD viewing. My old LG42PC5D provides almost as good a SD picture quality as a CRT TV's. __________________ LG55LW5000/Denon3313/MirageOMD5+Nanosat+MM8/ClearStream2/CM7778+3414 SSGPN50A550/OptomaHD33/Onkyo717/KEF3005/Velo15"

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2010-01-04, 04:59 PM	#3
JamesK Veteran Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mississauga Posts: 5,040	Is it actually worse or does it simply look worse on a set with a larger screen? If you have a DVD player that can be configured to upconvert the resolution, you might try a comparison beteen when the DVD player does the upconversion and when the TV does.

2010-01-04, 05:29 PM	#4
aca1099 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2	A DVD looks completely fine on the screen. The cable is split a couple times before it gets to my bedroom so im assuming the signal is pretty poor. The picture is very pixelated and on some channels very fuzzy. (quality does differ from channel to channel)

2010-01-05, 10:31 AM	#7
Paolo Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Regional Municipality of Durham Posts: 2,695	you said your plugging the cable directly into the TV's built-in NTSC tuner? then thats Analogue signals you are receiving. If you used a SD STB, you will still receive SD broadcasts, but the QOTI will be vastly improved. you will get closer to 480i type signals. The STB will be doing the converstion, not the Cable Head End.

2010-01-05, 05:11 PM	#9
fitsintite Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Montreal Posts: 39	Hi Splitting the cable a couple times is definitely not helping PQ.

2010-01-09, 12:05 PM	#10
Paolo Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Regional Municipality of Durham Posts: 2,695	although there is compression, its less noticible on a SDTV/CRT. the cable signal pumps right out of the box to your tv, it travels so short, its less prone to image distortion. where as analogue, it coems from the head end, its amplified so many times, it goes through many splitters, bad wires, by the time it reaches your tv, you will notice not all the channels are very clear compared to digital.