Tired of bad CD sound - come BACK to the FUTURE!

[ScooterMcTavish]

So here I am with my $900 AVR, my $400 PS3, and my Athena Speakers thinking, "Why does my old NAD stereo system in the basement make music sound better than this"?

Off and on, I had also been experimenting with hooking up CD players (yes those old things in the garage) via optical and analog to see the differences. I also compared against DVD players via optical and analog to see what was up. I do not use any DSP processing on music, and listen to it 2.1 (stereo) only.

For those who are interested, I used:
An older Denon CD player - 4x oversampling with dual 8 bit D.A.C.s, analog only
A newer JVC 5 Disk CD Player - 1 bit JVC proprietary P.E.M. D/A converters, analog and digital (optical) outputs
A newer Toshiba DVD Upscaler - with CD D/A upsampling (via analog) and optical out
A PS3 - Audio via optical out

Rather than bore you with a blow by blow detail of the differences between them, suffice it to say that both the CD and DVD players via optical sounded virtually identical using the AVR's D/A upscaling converters. Despite changing numerous settings, the PS3 just sounded bad. Muddy and dull.

Hooking up via analog was much more interesting. Both the JVC and Denon players sounded nice, with a nod to the Denon for a "richer" sound. Guess the construction of those D/A circuits does make a difference. However, both (to my ears) sounded better than the D/A converters in the AVR.

However, using the DVD player via analog sounded bad. Obviously its D/A upscaling converter didn't do very much for the sound. To my ears, it really thinned it out and make is lifeless (missing dynamic peaks).

So, simple decision - I've hooked up the JVC via analog in my living room, and I'm happier than I was with the PS3. However, I get an idea....

What if I hook up a graphic equalizer inline between the CD player and the analog CD ins on the AVR? In goes an old Pioneer 7-band.

(Can't you hear the pot being stirred now?)

Wow, what a way to combat bad room effects and to counter the natural roll-offs in my speakers. (All in caps) I COULD NOT BELIEVE HOW MUCH BETTER IT SOUNDED!

Yes, I know the audio purist may think that I am messing with the "neutrality" or "lack of coloration" of the source material. However, last I checked, every component in my stand, and my speakers will affect the neutrality of the sound.

All I know is it sounded GOOOOOOOD!

And I lent a spare EQ to a buddy of mine who has been fighting with room issues in his HT for 2.1 ch music (even though he has a zippity-doo Onkyo thingie with 5 band parametric for each speaker and Audessy too!), and he has told me he has entered audio nirvana this route.

Let the discussion begin. Or, even better, dig out that old EQ and CD player and try it for yourself.

Sometimes advances in sound and technology aren't as good as the old fashioned stuff.

[eljay]

I normally listen to CDs on my older Technics SL-PG450 CD player, which is connected to my receiver by stereo analogue cables. Recently, I tried playing some CDs on my OPPO DV-980H, using both the HDMI connection and the multi-channel analogue connection.

The OPPO's HDMI connection didn't sound any better than my Technics' analogue connection but, initially, I thought the OPPO's multi-channel connection sounded particularly good. Once I adjusted the volume to match that of the Technics, the "improvement" disappeared.

So far, I'm happiest listening to my CDs on my old CD player.

THE END.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Hey eljay.

You MUST have an EQ lurking around somewhere, don't you?

That you put a smiley behind your "THE END" suggests it isn't the end.....

Geez, I feel like some sort of pusher trying to get kids hooked on drugs.

[eljay]

The only EQ I have is in my receiver and, as it happens, I thought to use it tonight while listening to some music (Black Sabbath's "Neon Knights" and "Children of the Sea" and Dire Straits' "Telegraph Road") in PLII Music mode. I had previously modified the "Preset EQ" setting to boost lower frequencies on my center, which is a bit anemic vs. my mains. It worked great! So, +1 for judicious use of EQ.

That you put a smiley behind your "THE END" suggests it isn't the end.....

Long version of story: I was amused when I wrote "THE END" because it felt as though I'd just completed a "What I Did This Summer" essay, so I added the smiley. Is it really the end? I dunno. I normally don't get too motivated to "fix it if it ain't broke"...but never say never.

Geez, I feel like some sort of pusher trying to get kids hooked on drugs.

Drugs, no. Good Scotch, absolutely.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Good Scotch, absolutely.

That sounds like a smashing idea. I see a shot of Talisker or 6 Islands in my near future.

[eljay]

My Glendronach 12 Year is gone, but there's a bottle of Lagavulin in the basement waiting for this weekend to arrive...

I see a shot of Talisker ...

In my humble opinion, Talisker 18 Year is THE Scotch. Period. Lagavulin is, in many ways, on par with it, but it's more of an acquired taste - and therefore somewhat less "accessible" - than Talisker.

Oops - sorry for taking this off topic.

[ScooterMcTavish]

No issues with going off topic Eljay - Music and scotch - what goes better together? Though adding a nice cigar could also be swell.

You must be doing better than me - for me Talisker 12 yr is THE scotch. Though I do also really like Bowmore.

FYI, "Slam" by Onyx is playing on the system right now - seems like a good waste of audio equipment.

[eljay]

Well, as long as we're cyber-lounging around, waiting for others to kick in their 2¢ on the topic of this thread... ...I haven't tried Bowmore yet, but I'll give it a go some time. I'd be interested in giving Six Islands (Isles?) a try but it doesn't seem to be available in Ontario (not at the LCBO, anyway).

A few of the Scotches that have stood out for me are:
- Any of the Distillers Six (Cragganmore, Dalwhinnie, Glenkinchie, Lagavulin, Oban, Talisker)
- Ardbeg 10 Yr
- Balvenie 12 Yr Doublewood
- Glendronach 12 Yr
- Glenfiddich 15 Yr (affordable and MUCH better than the regular stuff, which I don't care for)
- Laphroaig 10 Yr

FYI, "Slam" by Onyx is playing on the system right now ...

Gave it a quick listen on YouTube buuuuut it's not my cup of tea.

So I'm back to listening to Sabbath's "Heaven and Hell" album for about the fourth time today. (I discovered it recently and I can't get enough of it.)

Signing off and rocking out... \m/ \m/

[ScooterMcTavish]

Hahaha Eljay. Funny what happens to a thread when there's no-one around but two bored guys.

Bowmore is an Islay scotch, but is not as stiff as Laphroaig. However, lots of smoke and white pepper flavour in that one. "The Six Isles" (lazy typing) is one of the few blended scotches I like. It is a blend of only island scotches (Islay, Jura, Skye [so there is Talisker in it] and three others). However, I'm too lazy to go get the bottle to tell you all six. Regardless, its good.

IMHO, it has very little in common with most blended scotches, and is much more resemblant of a very mild Islay scotch, or a very strong Speyside. It was discontinued in Manitoba last year, so I guess once this bottle is gone, it's gone.

Funny you don't like Glenfiddich 12 yr. I use this as my "intro to Scotch scotch". You know, where you get the questions like, "Can I have some Coke with this?" (head banging on wall). A few years ago I introduced a buddy to it while camping, and we got completely smashed. At some point I fell into the bushes. It was a good time!

I do also have a soft spot myself for Glenmorangie though typically I'm an island kind of guy.

"Slam" was certainly not in the regular rotation around here. It was just on a mixed dance CD I erroneously left in the disc player (I like Haddaway's "What is Love?" as a bass-tester for speakers - it was on the same disc). Can't blame you for not liking it - I don't like it either.

Now I'm listening to Sonata Arctica's new disc - "Days of Grays". It is Scandinavian progressive, melodic, symphonic metal. Much better - just trying to get the kinks worked out in the new RTS-P100s.

"Heaven and Hell" - excellent disc! What took you so long?

[eljay]

"The Six Isles" ... is one of the few blended scotches I like. It is a blend of only island scotches ... IMHO, it has very little in common with most blended scotches, and is much more resemblant of a very mild Islay scotch, or a very strong Speyside.

Sounds interesting. I prefer single malt to blended, but this one sounds like it's worth trying. I'll have to hunt around for some.

Funny you don't like Glenfiddich 12 yr. I use this as my "intro to Scotch scotch".

Glenfiddich was my "intro", too, but over the years I've discovered that there's much better stuff to drink and, often, for not much more. The 15 year is considerably better; I'm tempted to snag a bottle of the 18 year, too.

"Slam" was certainly not in the regular rotation around here. ... Can't blame you for not liking it - I don't like it either.

Whew, that's good to know! You never know how personally someone might take having their musical tastes question...

"Heaven and Hell" - excellent disc! What took you so long?

I dunno. I remember listening to some Ozzy-era Sabbath but I just couldn't get into it. Recently, though, I got a buddy of mine into Iron Maiden and he reciprocated by ripping a bunch of Dio-related stuff, including a few Sabbath albums, the new disc by Heaven and Hell (Sabbath in all but name) and some Rainbow.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Well, if you like Iron Maiden (my personal favourite), then do yourself a favor and check out Sonata Arctica. SA actually opened for IM on an asian tour.

Good "starter" songs are "The Cage", "Victoria's Secret", "Don't Say A Word", "Misplaced", "Black Sheep", "Shamandalie", "Full Moon" and "White Ocean, Black Pearl". Try it, you may like it.

IMHO, Neon Knights is the best Dio-Sabbath song there is.

[eljay]

OK, I'll give SA a listen. Thanks for the tip.

IMHO, Neon Knights is the best Dio-Sabbath song there is.

So far, I will have to agree. (And "Children of the Sea" makes for an awesome 1-2 combo.)

-- Edit --
Placed an order through ParkersWhiskey.co.uk for a bottle of "Six Isles" whiskey. Looking forward to it!

[ScooterMcTavish]

Maybe the thread should be renamed from "Want good CD sound" to "Scott and Eljay discuss scotch and music".

We could make this thread go for days.

Though listening to CDs through the EQ again tonight. Not quite as severe a difference as with the Athenas - the EQ turned round steak into T-Bone. With the SDs, the EQ turns T-Bone into Filet. Its effect is subtler than with the book shelves, but it smooths out an already good sounding system.

Time for some "The Six Isles". Ahhh, reekin' good rich!

-Add- Yes, it certainly is. Mmmmmm.

[eljay]

Originally Posted by ScottCrick

Maybe the thread should be renamed from "Want good CD sound" to "Scott and Eljay discuss scotch and music".

We could make this thread go for days.

LOL!

I regret not having anything to add to the EQ portion of the thread, so I'll just say that it's good to hear that your fiddling is paying off. Makes it worth while, eh?

Filet with Scotch - an excellent combination.

[ScooterMcTavish]

I remember listening to some Ozzy-era Sabbath but I just couldn't get into it

Wow, for some reason, I missed that the first time around! Really!?!

I'm 39, so I did listen to a lot (and I mean A LOT) of Ozzy in my teens, and loved it. Randy Rhodes' guitar solos in Mr. Crowley are in my top 5 guitar solos of all time.

So, like no "Paranoid", "Iron Man", "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath", or "War Pigs"?

To me, Paranoid is one of the best 20 metal albums of all time! Plus that guitar riff on the title song:

dah-dah-dah-dunna-dunna-dunna-dunna-dah-dah-dah-dunna-dunna-dunna-dunna

Quite odd! Generally most Sabbath fans I've met love the Ozzy era, and fewer like the Dio era. Mind you, I liked Dio's solo stuff - "Rainbow in the Dark" is a fabulous tune; way better than "Holy Diver" IMHO. "Last in Line" was also a rockin' track.

Just rereading the posts above, apparently I make a lot of "top __" lists.

Time to go pour another dram.