latest in software media extenders?

[shmish]

Hi,
I currently use my Vista PC for recording and watching tv on my PC. The tv is digital and HD OTA signals through a Hauppage card. As well, I have a NAS with movie, photo and music data on it. I connect to the NAS on an HPTC (actually it's just a laptop) that is running XBMC. I really like the interface of XBMC. However, it cannot receive media (ie tv) from my vista computer.

What is the best os or software to load on the HPTC such that it can stream all sorts of media from the NAS as well as the hd tv from the Vista machine? I think SageTV is an option but I like free options when available. I'm not sure that using windows media center type software will work for all of the movie files I have, and the interface isn't as nice as xbmc. Besides, I'm not sure that I can even install Vista on the HPTC.

thanks

[TorontoColin]

You wouldn't have to run Vista on the laptop, you would need an Xbox 360 as a media center extender (about $200). They work well but they won't stream a lot of your files. If you're planning on upgrading your Vista computer to Windows 7 that will fix a lot of those problems.

SageTV would probably be better for streaming files but in that case you'll need a copy of the SageTV license ($80) and a SageTV HD Theater extender ($200). Also, if you find the Windows Media Center interface lacking you might be severely disappointed with Sage (or maybe you'd love it, it is kind of a personal thing).

MythTV is a free Linux based platform. There are software extenders that you can install on your laptop, the problem is that the server PC (the one with the TV tuner) needs to be running Linux. Same as Sage regarding the interface; it's not awful but it's not as pretty as VMC.

[jean luc picard]

first of all, media center is BY FARRRRRRRRRR the best looking gui. its not even a contest. second, media center will play any codec you want with a simple "plugin". third, media center will NOT stream live tv. you need the xbox360 for that, but the 360 has more issues with codecs.

i don't know much about sage, but i think it can stream live tv.

[shmish]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does a remote Media Center (for example, a vista media center laptop) connect to a main Vista Media Center (the PC with all the data/media files on it)? With the windows media extenders, I'm under the impression that you give the VMC an 8 digit code and then you can connect to the extender. With two computers running VMC though, do you have to use the normal windows file and media sharing?

I think the SageTV idea is good, but it's a $300 layout. I'll also have to look into the PS3 option, as $300 would also get you a blu-ray player. I don't think the ps3 solutions provide tv streaming.

[tbusa]

Actual if you go to the Sagetv store, Its $224.95 for a extender and Server +shipping ! with the CAN to USD looking good, its not going to be that bad in the wallet.

[jean luc picard]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how does a remote Media Center (for example, a vista media center laptop) connect to a main Vista Media Center (the PC with all the data/media files on it)? With the windows media extenders, I'm under the impression that you give the VMC an 8 digit code and then you can connect to the extender. With two computers running VMC though, do you have to use the normal windows file and media sharing?

assuming all media center pcs are on the same network, you simply tell media center which folder to look for recorded tv content. this folder can obviously be on that computer or ANY computer on the network. which is cool because you can record tv on any computer and stream it to any other computer on your network. in other words, you're not restricted to a single server. but most ppl just record to a single pc.

only the 360 can stream live tv if you want to use media center.

[shmish]

Any idea if W7 will change things in terms of live tv streaming?

[Wayne]

Vista or Win7 Media Center are prettier than Sage but there are lots of add-ins that make Sage look nicer. I was running a Windows XP Media Center PC but I switched to Sage about 1.5 years ago.

But there are several other advantages of Sage. Microsoft doesn't seem to care too much about the Canadian market and they have not done things to help us. This includes issues like not supporting OTA HD in Canada, which you can get around with a hack, and also not dealing with the CGMS-A recording flag that plagued Canadians for several years. Microsoft also has more interest in having DRM in their media implementations and they seem to be losing interest in the whole concept of media center PCs.

Here is what Sage can do that Media Center cannot:
Directly supports the Hauppauge HD-PVR for recording and streaming of HD from cable and satellite boxes.
Fully supports playback of ripped DVDs and Blu-Ray DVDs.
Hardware extenders (the only extender currently available for Windows is the Xbox-360).
Ability to use PCs as Media Center clients (known as softsled in the MCE world).
Direct support for Placeshifting.
Support for Windows, Linux and Mac.

Sage is also very proactive in releasing updates. With MS you are pretty much tied into the cycle of their OS upgrades so you may have to wait years for changes which is too long given the rapidly evolving world of home media.

IMHO the best model is to have a server with lots of hard drive and TV tuners and then stream this content via a wired network to extenders throughout your house. I have a server in my basement running WHS with SageTV. This records TV and has 6.6 TB of hard drive with tons of content. I can watch this in 5 places throughout my house, including live TV, on Sage HD200 extenders or PC clients. I can also connect to this from halfway around the world via Sage Placeshifter.

[ScaryBob]

I connect to the NAS on an HPTC (actually it's just a laptop) that is running XBMC. I really like the interface of XBMC. However, it cannot receive media (ie tv) from my vista computer.

The server and client must use the same protocol in order to communicate. XBMC uses a protocol called UPnP. In order to use XBMC, a UPnP server is required. These include Nero MediaHome, SnapStream BTV/BeyondTV (under Windows) and MythTV (under Linux). For more info see Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) and Universal Plug and Play

Windows Media Center uses Real Time Streaming Protocol (RTSP). For More info see Real Time Streaming Protocol. It is incompatible with UPnP but is supported by a number of other clients. These include Windows Media Center and Windows Media Player.

You basically have two choices, either install a UPnP compatible server to use XBMC or switch to an RTSC compatible client. There are also a number of solutions that use neither but use their own protocols. That would require installation of both a server and client. MediaPortal is one free solution. SageTV is another solution.

[TorontoColin]

Originally Posted by Wayne

This includes issues like not supporting OTA HD in Canada, which you can get around with a hack, and also not dealing with the CGMS-A recording flag that plagued Canadians for several years. Microsoft also has more interest in having DRM in their media implementations and they seem to be losing interest in the whole concept of media center PCs.

To be fair they fixed the CGMS-A flag a long time ago, and I've never seen any DRM on any of my feeds. I know it is a problem in the US on CableCards but that's because of the CableLabs restrictions on firmware, not MS.

The big issue on that list that's missing from Windows 7 and has no work around is software extenders.

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by TorontoColin

To be fair they fixed the CGMS-A flag a long time ago, and I've never seen any DRM on any of my feeds.

Colin - I don't know if you follwed this issue on TGB but it took at least a year from the time they acknowledged this until they released the fix - and I am not 100% sure that the released a fix for XP MCE. Taking that long to fix a significant bug is a SERIOUS drawback.

Originally Posted by TorontoColin

The big issue on that list that's missing from Windows 7 and has no work around is software extenders.

I think the biggest issue is the lack of direct support for the HD-PVR. I know you can get around this but are there any tradeoffs in running DVBLink? The other issue is the demise of hardware extenders, other than the Xbox360.

And you still have to wonder whether they care about Canadians. Don't forget that they have never supported OTA in Canada and with the TV Pack 2008 they broke Peter Near's hack that allowed you to get around this.

Sure you can blame the lack of CableCards on the CRTC and the cable cos but MS has never really shown support to the Canadian market for MCE (and now they no longer sell the Zune in Canada) and they seem to really be pulling back from being that keen on MC as a concept. They seem to be pushing "TV on your PC" when what I want is "PC on your TV".

[TorontoColin]

As far as I know there are no drawbacks to DVBLink (and a few advantages including individual management of the HD-PVR's part of the channel guide, integration with firestb for channel changing, and a dedicated team that provides regular support).

I have no issue with the Xbox 360s as extenders. The new ones are pretty quiet, the noise is never an issue for me, and they're powerful and flexible devices, and relatively cheap and easy to find now too. Even when there were other options I always chose the 360s anyways (since XP MCE 2005) and I've never regretted that.

[shmish]

The SageTV sounds like an okay option. For just a bit more I could get a PS3 though. My NAS is UpNP and DLNA compliant, so it should be able to stream any backup dvds I have, along with all my digital music and photos. It should also be able to play back tv that is recorded by my PC. What it can't do is play back live tv or control recording. Of course the big positive about the PS3 is that it is a blu-ray player (I have no desire to backup blu-ray discs).

So for any given price point, I would have to decide between a blu-ray player or better integration (sagetv, xbox360).

[ScaryBob]

Another possibility is the TVersity Media Server. It uses the UPnP protocol so it should work with XBMC. There is a free and a paid version of TVersity.

Originally Posted by TVersity Media Server FAQ

What devices are supported by the TVersity Media Server?
TVersity is the most versatile media server and the only one that is truly universal in the range of devices it supports. TVersity can serve media to:

1. Devices supporting the UPnP AV / DLNA standard (which is the de-facto standard for connecitivity between devices in the digital home). This includes devices like game consoles (Xbox 360 and Sony PS3), networked TVs, DVDs, Stereo Receivers, Digital Media Adapaters/Receivers, Mobile Phones, Satellite and Cable set-top-boxes and more.
2. Devices with a web browser (XHTML-MP or WAP 2.0) and media streaming or downloading capabilities like iPhone, Blackberry, the Sony PSP, Nokia N series, and other smart phones.
3. Devices with Adobe Flash, this includes the Nintendo Wii.
4. Devices with an RSS reader and media streaming or downloading capabilities like the Sony PSP, iTunes/iPod and more.

[shmish]

Originally Posted by ScaryBob

Another possibility is the TVersity Media Server. It uses the UPnP protocol so it should work with XBMC. There is a free and a paid version of TVersity.

True, but I don't think TVersity does anything that my NAS doesn't already do. The NAS streams all my media except live tv.