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What is "the soap opera effect"?

31K views 37 replies 17 participants last post by  dynot 
#1 ·
I'm re-sending this post as the original evaporated into cyberspace. I've read several articles on the Net from 1080p, 120 Hz LCD set owners complaining about "the soap opera effect" but they don't explain what the problem is. Could anybody enlighten me as to what this means? :confused: Thanks
 
#2 ·
The Soap Opera effect is watching a movie and the picture is similar to the soap operas seen on TV in the afternoons... meaning the picture looks more Video than film.

"Movieholics" wish to see a movie on their home display with 24 frames per second and qualify blur and judder scenes as the "Directors' Intent".

When a TV features 120 frame rate it carries 5 times the rate of frames per second compared to 24 fps. In my case, my TV features 240Hz or 10 times the source's frame rate.

Although my 240Hz AMP can be set to OFF, more and more Samsung B750 owners keep it ON and by selecting the "Custom" setting, can set Blur and Judder reductions rates at individual personal settings.

Some people are questioning the "Directors' Intent" statement wondering if the 24 frame rate per second is a Director's choice or an imposition because most cinema movie equipment can only playback at the 24 frame per second rate.

The next sentence I'm about to write will enrage most movieholics... would movie Directors consider using a frame rate higher than 24 fps, if that was possible, thus making the image clearer?

I now watch movies with no blurring and no judder. The action, the faces of people are clear and pleasant. To each his own.
 
#3 ·
The fact that many TVs can do 120Hz refresh or higher isn't the real issue.

The big difference is that soap operas are usually shot on video, which is 30fps (and perhaps 60 fps ?) vs film which is 24 fps.

The extra frame rate looks "different" than film. Some people like it, others don't. TomAYto vs TomAHto if you ask me.
 
#4 ·
Thanks guys for the info! I Googled "soap opera effect" yesterday, and while there was lots of stuff about it, none of them described exactly what the problems were!

mfabien "The Soap Opera effect is watching a movie and the picture is similar to the soap operas seen on TV in the afternoons... meaning the picture looks more Video than film."

So, the filmed show or movie no longer has the smooth glossy look of film but now has the sharp, edgy look of video? If this is correct, I'm not so sure I would like this feature as I like the smooth look!
I guess the best thing would be to go to an electronics store and view it side by side, with a regular HD set.
 
#5 ·
I should add to my comments that there are more than just the frame rate at play here.

Soaps tend to be filmed entirely on smaller, closed sets. As such the lighting is much different, and I wouldn't be surprised if the cameras use a much different depth of field setting than what you would see in a movie.
 
#6 ·
mfabien:
"The next sentence I'm about to write will enrage most movieholics... would movie Directors consider using a frame rate higher than 24 fps, if that was possible, thus making the image clearer?"

Several years ago, film critic Roger Ebert demonstrated "Maxivision" that had a 48 fps rate. The images were really stunning! He showed a film clip projected at 24 fps of a panel truck travelling from right to left across the screen and the lettering and logo on the side of the van was a complete blur. Then he showed a Maxivision clip of the same scene projected at 48 frames and you could read the name of the company and an image of a rose, if I remember correctly, as I seem to recall it was a flower delivery van!
For some reason or other, the invention never caught on with the movie industry big wigs.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxivision for more info on the innovation.
 
#7 ·
I believe IMAX 70mm film gets recorded and projected in 48 fps. It is a fact that 70mm film converted to digital HD provides best results. I have two such productions:

Coral Reef Adventure and The Living Sea both MacGillivray Freman's films are in Blu-Ray.
 
#8 ·
"Movieholics" wish to see a movie on their home display with 24 frames per second and qualify blur and judder scenes as the "Directors' Intent".
Personally, I like to see a movie or television show the way it was intended to be seen. If it was shot in black & white, I want to see it in black & white. If it was shot in widescreen, I want to see it in widescreen. If the original soundtrack was mono, I want to hear it in mono. And the same applies to the frame rate. If something was shot at 24fps, I want to see it at 24fps - if it was shot at 30fps, I want to see it at 30fps.

Some people are questioning the "Directors' Intent" statement wondering if the 24 frame rate per second is a Director's choice or an imposition because most cinema movie equipment can only playback at the 24 frame per second rate.
It's pretty much irrelevant whether it's a choice or a limitation - the fact of the matter is that that's the way it was made. I'm sure that a lot of black & white films would have been made in colour if the budget had allowed it, but that doesn't mean we should go around colourizing black & white films.

Also, television has never had that "imposition", yet 99% of all dramatic series are - and have been - shot on 16mm or 35mm film at 24fps, or 24p video.

There's no reason why something like CSI couldn't be shot at 30fps (it would actually be easier in some ways), yet the producers have opted for 24fps, precisely because it conveys a more cinematic look.

People are certainly free to watch whatever they like with fake frames added in, just as they're free to watch their sets in 'vivid' mode with the DNR maxed out, but I just hope that there will always be an option to turn frame-interpolation off.

But to answer the original question, the "soap opera effect" is a form of frame interpolation - that is, the tv adds fake frames in between existing ones, guessing at what the motion between real frames might be. This creates a smoother - some would argue 'more realistic' - sense of motion, though it's clearly no longer what the filmmakers created.
 
#14 ·
There's no reason why something like CSI couldn't be shot at 30fps (it would actually be easier in some ways), yet the producers have opted for 24fps, precisely because it conveys a more cinematic look.
You couldn't be more wrong. There is one reason and one reason only that movies and especially tv shows aren't shot at 30fps. Money. 25% increase in film stock cost.
 
#10 ·
There was a move some time ago to use 60fps for movies using digital cameras. Not sure if that is still used outside TV. As stated, higher frame rates produce better images and a better movie experience. Just like 30fps NTSC, 24fps film is just a technical hold back to old standards, not a way to enhance a film. Some directors may want to use older techniques such as B&W to set a mood, most do not and use existing equipment due to availability and cost. Higher frame rates and higher definition improve the movie experience and most directors would use them if given a choice.
 
#12 · (Edited)
There was a move some time ago to use 60fps for movies using digital cameras. Not sure if that is still used outside TV. As stated, higher frame rates produce better images and a better movie experience. Just like 30fps NTSC, 24fps film is just a technical hold back to old standards, not a way to enhance a film. Some directors may want to use older techniques such as B&W to set a mood, most do not and use existing equipment due to availability and cost. Higher frame rates and higher definition improve the movie experience and most directors would use them if given a choice.
As someone who works - and knows a number of people who work - in the film and television industry, I seriously dispute the claim that "most directors" would prefer to shoot with a higher frame rate. If anything, it's the preference of filmmakers for 24fps that has made 24p high-def the standard for dramatic film and television production.

Higher frame rates may look 'better' in the sense that they look more like everyday life, and may indeed be preferable for live events such as sports, or things like the news and nature documentaries.

But for dramatic films, it's much easier to create a suspension of disbelief using 24fps. It's precisely its lack of 'reality' that makes it appealing. Try watching science-fiction or fantasy shot on 30fps video. It just doesn't look right. It looks too 'real' to sell the illusion.

It's the same with resolution - since the dawn of filmmaking, cinematographers have been using various filters and film stocks to make the image less sharp and less detailed in order to achieve a certain look and feel.
 
#13 ·
A couple of years ago, I read that Imax movies would no longer be shot at 70mm due to: (1) The heavy and bulky cameras and equipment. (2) The added expense of 70mm film stock. Instead, they have developed a system where they can blow-up a 35mm or Super 35mm film to 70mm but the image isn't quite as sharp as an original 70mm Imax film.
 
#15 ·
You couldn't be more wrong. There is one reason and one reason only that movies and especially tv shows aren't shot at 30fps. Money. 25% increase in film stock cost.
Really? Does that apply to HD video, as well? Seems to me there's no cost savings there, yet there are a number of dramatic shows that shoot 24fps HD and I can't think of a single one that shoots at 30fps.
 
#16 ·
...since the dawn of filmmaking, cinematographers have been using various filters and film stocks to make the image less sharp and less detailed in order to achieve a certain look and feel.
The use of tints and filters to set a mood or look and feel has nothing to do with frame rates or resolution. Film noir would still look like film noir, regardless of the resolution or frame rate, as long as the same photographic and production techniques were used. As for "film like" qualities, those are a handicap when film is converted to video. They cause numerous artifacts that detract from the quality and enjoyment of the content. They don't set the mood, look or feel of the film. The director and cinematographer do that, whether its 16mm B/W stock or 70mm high grade stock. Any director who claims they prefer lower quality stock is probably working on a budget or doesn't know how to use better technology.
 
#17 ·
As for "film like" qualities, those are a handicap when film is converted to video. They cause numerous artifacts that detract from the quality and enjoyment of the content.
And yet, 24fps is overwhelmingly favoured for television and commercial production, even though 30fps offers 'better' (i.e. smoother and more realistic) handling of motion. Why is it favoured? Probably because it makes content - even content that was never meant to be seen in the cinema - more cinematic.

I can only speak for the people that I know personally - film professionals including directors, writers, cinematographers, editors, actors and designers who have worked on numerous features, telefilms and series such as "Stargate Atlantis", "Prison Break", "Bones", "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles", "Monk" and, ironically, "24" - but I have never heard anyone express a preference for the look of 30fps over 24fps. Not one single person. I'm not saying they don't exist - I heard something about James Cameron expressing an interest in faster film rates, and, Michael Mann, as well - but I don't get the sense that there is any overwhelming desire within the industry to make the switch, nor does there seem to be any dissatisfaction with the limitations of 24fps. If anything, there is a bias towards 24fps over 30 fps, and a bias towards film over video - though I know a few people who'd rather shoot in HD than film.

As to whether it detracts from the quality and enjoyment of the content - well, that comes down to personal preference. Some people prefer the look of 24fps, some don't. There's no 'right' or 'wrong' here, though - to get back to the original topic of discussion - I'd argue that using a frame interpolation algorithm to watch content shot at 24fps is 'incorrect', in the same way that altering aspect ratio or colourization is incorrect.
 
#18 ·
Johnny Depp was on David Letterman, last night and mentioned that his new film on Dillinger, called "Public Enemies", about to be released, was recorded with portable cameras in many instances and that was feasible because the recording was done in HD digital...
 
#19 ·
Samsung UN55C8000 + Soap Opera Effect = gross

mfabien, it's funny that you should mention Public Enemies--I hated that film for a number of reasons, one of which was the gross "Soap Opera" style.

Speaking of which, I will never accept this grotesque hyperrealistic "Soap Opera Effect" that the new 120Hz and 240Hz HDTVs are creating. I would sooner go back to watch movies on a boxy CRT than artificially pervert quality films and TV.

Unfortunately, I just bought a new Samsung UN55C8000 240Hz LED TV and it seems I'm screwed when it comes to the Soap Opera Effect--even turning off Auto Motion Plus doesn't solve the problem. Everything looks comically realistic and accelerated. If I want real life I'll go outside.

The closest I've come to a solution is to set Auto Motion Plus to "Clear." It reduces the Soap Opera Effect slightly, but only slightly. I want a full solution or I'm taking this TV back and getting anything without this BS effect.
 
#20 ·
I much prefer Concert Videos to movies, and therefore, my film library is quite small. Whenever I watch a movie on Blu-Ray, I leave my settings to 240 Hz and I have no problem with the so called "Soap opera effect". If given the choice, I doubt that in today's world all film producers would choose 24 fps...

If you want to truly watch what your TV can do, buy the following:

"Coral Reef Adventure" and "The Living Sea" both produced by MacGillivray Freeman's with Imax 70mm film.
 
#23 ·
With Samsung LCD you can completely turn off the automotion feature. That will get rid of the sopa opera effect. I like the effect for everything but movies so I turn it to the OFF setting when watching blurays.

You don't have to return the TV just turn the automotion off. If you buy a plasma there are other issues such as flickering. My eyes are sensitve to the flickering of a plasma tv and I can't watch them for very long.
 
#24 ·
My eyes are sensitve to the flickering of a plasma tv and I can't watch them for very long.
Never heard that one before.

Unless you're talking about using the 24fps thing. You do know that Blu-rays are recorded with 24fps? And movies are typically made using 24fps, which is why the BDs use it? IOW you will see no more flickering on a plasma that does 24fps properly than at a movie cinema.

Many displays, especially Samsung, do not do 24fps properly. Turn OFF the 1080p/24 mode on ANY display if it bothers you. Especially don't use it for DVDs, it usually only occasionally works well for those. Bottom line is plasmas don't flicker, per se, but LCDs DO flicker and that is why they use 120Hz/240Hz/etc. refresh rates partly to minimise the flicker effect on them. You still would see it with something 1080p/24 though, if you are sensitive to that (some are).
 
#25 ·
Some Panasonics with their terrible 48hz processing of 24fps content were unwatchable due to the flickering, and I have seen some flickering on some other plasmas as well. Very crt like in the flickering which never bothered me, but I could see how it could aggravate some people.

As for lcds flickering, that is the first I've ever heard of that. All I've owned for flat panels is lcds and none of them displayed flicker with any content.

As for phrozted's issue, like others have said, turn off the automotion plus in the picture settings and you will get rid of the soap opera effect. Don't return a great tv, just learn to optimize it.
 
#27 ·
These videos were shot with Imax cameras (as told in the Coral Reef Adventure video). The beauty of the scenes , in Blu-Ray, exceeds all that I've seen (and I do have Planet Earth and Galapagos in HD DVD) by a stretch.
 
#29 ·
Just back from visiting my parents place. They have a 46" 240Hz Lg lcd tv (bought a year or so ago). A bunch of us were watching the transformers movie when all of us remarked how there was something wrong with the picture. I had just read up on this soap opera effect and I have to say it was hideous. All of us could not stand it. Looked like cardboard cutouts, depth perception was off. I actually thought they had redone scenes which was accounting for the amateurish look of the whole thing.

Are there some lcd tv brands in which this isn't a problem. I'm looking for a 40" lcd at the moment and definitely do not want anything which has this problem.
 
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