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Old 2009-07-08, 12:01 PM   #1
avenger
 
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Default Bowtie antennas vs Gray Hoverman antennas?

First of all I am new to this whole building of HD antennas. Since now everything suppose to be in High Defenition Tv reception, what is the main difference between a Bowtie antennas and the Gray Hoverman antennas when it comes to performance. I have made one of each but have only used the Gray Hoverman antenna with good results . Are both antennas capable of receiving all of the High Defenition Channels?. Is it possible to stack one Bowtie and Gray Hoverman, and vice versa for a better performance of reception. I hope that I am not asking too many silly questions for a rookie. Any help and information is greatly appreciated. Thanking You in advance.
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Old 2009-07-08, 02:48 PM   #2
stampeder
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Hello and welcome here avenger - they each have their own benefits, and they both are able to pick up digital TV signals better than most or all commercial antennas.

Check out the gain performance chart thread for a good comparison, but also try to pick out a design (of either type) that suits your reception requirements, your budget, and your build skills. Currently if you need to go large there are more build options for a DBGH (Double Bay Gray Hoverman) than with the M8 (mclapp 8-bay Bowtie Reflector) but that is really only just because the M8 has not had much testing and refinement to this point.

Please read through these links:
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Old 2009-07-08, 02:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Are both antennas capable of receiving all of the High Defenition Channels?. Is it possible to stack one Bowtie and Gray Hoverman, and vice versa for a better performance of reception.
Yes, both antennas are HDTV ready, and even backwards compatible with B/W sets.

Stacking non identical antennas gives much less gain than stacking identical antennas.
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Old 2009-07-08, 07:56 PM   #4
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Thanks stampeder and 300ohm for your replies. I live in the States, the channels offered here are in the range from channel, 4, 6, 8, 12, 32, 38, and 54, these stations are located about 30 miles away. I built a SBGH and as stated it works good. I am not too sure what quality I am getting, but it is a pretty good picture. I will check into a Double Bay Gray Hoverman antenna. I will also do more reading on the Bowtie and Hoverman types of antennas. If you have any more sujestions, please don't hesitate to offer, for I will be more than happy to learn. Thanks again.
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Old 2009-07-08, 08:24 PM   #5
stampeder
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Check out Post #10 in the OTA FAQ on how to generate a TVFool.com report so that we can look at it and make suggestions. Also please put your location in your user profile so that other members from your area might help out.
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Old 2013-04-24, 08:56 AM   #6
crite40
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Default experience with 2 bay Gray-Hoverman antenna.

Good day all!
Out here in NZ I have put together a 2 bay Gray-Hoverman for receiving HDTV. It uses a mesh reflector on an aluminium frame covered in aluminium welding wire mesh.
from Auckland. This is a path of about 55 Km with a low ridge about 2Km away in the line of sight. Generally reception is marginal in Helensville.
My antenna is about 4dB better than a typical 4 "bow tie" fringe commercial antenna in the same location. it has a "King Ray" 24 dB mast head preamp.
However I note that the lower UHF channels are much stronger than those above channel 32 or thereabouts.
I am considering shortening the active elements for a slightly higher frequency.
Has anyone got the appropriate design formulae for scaling the elements to suit?
FYI I am a VERY experienced (now semi retired) electronics engineer and have quite a good electronics workshop, including proper signal strength meters and antenna impedance bridges.
BTW I get a very acceptable signal on 10 of our 15 free to air digital channels but it would be nice to have the full set as a backup to satellite
reception.
Regards Cliff wright ZL1BDA ex G3NIA NZVRS
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Old 2013-04-24, 11:33 AM   #7
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The Gray hoverman models are created using nec2 optimization. I have not seen any formula that can work for you.

Scaling the entire model may work for you, but that means a new build...
And if you decide on new build check out my website.

Otherwise if you have a nec model for the antenna you've build, you can try optimizing it for the channels you are missing.
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Old 2013-04-24, 12:28 PM   #8
300ohm
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nikiml, note his channel frequencies are here : http://www.nzart.org.nz/info/technic...l-frequencies/

Quote:
Good day all!
Out here in NZ I have put together a 2 bay Gray-Hoverman for receiving HDTV. It uses a mesh reflector on an aluminium frame covered in aluminium welding wire mesh.
I take it that's a DBGH gen 1 mesh model, the same one Ive been using for four years, heh. Youre losing gain (and distorting the gain curve) by using an aluminum frame for the reflector. The reflectors on a GH antenna are TWO separate panels (a left side and a right side) separated by an air space. An aluminum frame shorts the two sides together. I would suggest re-doing the reflector using cheap UV resistant grey electrical 1/2" pvc pipe as the frame. Then leave a vertical 1 inch air gap in the middle of the aluminium welding wire mesh.

After the above changes to the reflector are done, the antenna should peak around your channel 47. Do you still have channels above 700 MHz ?

Quote:
This is a path of about 55 Km with a low ridge about 2Km away in the line of sight. Generally reception is marginal in Helensville.
I would also tilt the antenna up to aim for the top of the ridge to catch the refracted signals.
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Old 2013-04-24, 02:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300ohm View Post
nikiml, note his channel frequencies are here : http://www.nzart.org.nz/info/technic...l-frequencies/
thanks. So it seems that there are no models that fit the NZ frequencies perfectly. If IRC the gen1 gh was not so good at~700 already, let alone at ~800.

@crite40: May be you should list the channels(frequencies even) you are interested in.
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Old 2013-04-24, 02:57 PM   #10
holl_ands
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Rescaling an existing design to a different frequency of operation is very simple. To rescale the Center (or Lowest or Highest) Frequency from current f1 to new f2, multiply ALL antenna dimensions by Rescale Factor = F = f2/f1. Rescaling antenna for higher frequency means it gets SMALLER by F. For small Rescale Factors, the Element and Feedline radius can remain the same, with only minor impact on SWR. However, if Rescale Factor is fairly large, say from UHF to Hi-VHF Band, then the Element and perhaps also Feedline radius should also be increased by the Rescale Factor.

You could also try to simply shorten JUST the Zig-Zag Elements and hope for the best. However, you should download the FREE 4nec2 program and modify the selected G-H model to do a run with the proposed change to determine the result of different sized cuts. Summary of G-H 4nec2 models found here:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/grayhoverman

I don't know the particulars of YOUR commercial 4-Bay Bowtie....but ours tend to be low-performance compared to dual Hi-VHF/UHF Band M4 with it's much larger Double Angle Reflector and don't provide good performance in the Hi-VHF Band like the M4 does.

Bear in mind that G-H just barely covers our NEW UHF Band (470-698 MHz in North America), whereas M4 4-Bay and 8-Bay Bowtie designs have much wider bandwidth, falling off on the lower freqs (which you don't use), so their current dimensions should be close to what you need:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay
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