HD Provider for HTPC in Vancouver?

[xterrastrial]

Hi everyone!

I've been running Windows Media Center (Vista and now W7) to record SD from my Shaw cable for two years. I just bought our first HDTV and want to keep using WMC as my PVR and central hub for all my media. I live in Vancouver and can get the 3 local HD channels OTA and will hook that up to the MC (I have 2 Hauppauge 1600 tuners which handle NTSC and ATSC). However, I need more HD programming.

Questions:
1) For HD programming, any recommendations on going with Shaw HD or Telus HDTV?
2) How would I set them up so that WMC is the PVR? (love the interface, one place for all my media) I've read somewhere that I might need to use Hauppauge HD-PVR, which now works with W7.

Any advice between those 2 providers and how to set it up would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, everyone!

[toybox]

This is the dilemna isn't it?? I have the same exact set up as you. There really isn't an "easy" way to get more HD programming into WMC. You can research the hundreds of posts here about the HDHomerun, and running firewire from Shaw's HDbox, to some other not so desireable ways...

Ultimately for me, I decided that analog plus 3 OTA HD stations would do. I can always download HD content from the Net which I can't get OTA. I live near the Oak St. Bridge and have always been interested if I can "boost" my antenna to somehow get a few more OTA HD stations from Seattle, but I think it's just too far for me.

Let me know how you do, I would be interested...

[agover]

1) For HD programming, any recommendations on going with Shaw HD or Telus HDTV?

-> cant really answer this as im in ontario - that said see the next answer

2) How would I set them up so that WMC is the PVR? (love the interface, one place for all my media) I've read somewhere that I might need to use Hauppauge HD-PVR, which now works with W7.

- In order to record HD from cable/satellite there are basically 4 ways
1) clear-qam channels - this is a select subset of the channels available through a cable (ie shaw) provider and maybe inconsistant and not contain all the channels you want/pay for
2) firewire - similarly to clear-qam it will be a subset of channels
3) r5000 modified receiver - This is only available through satellite and will NOT work on either shaw cable or VDSL(telus tv)
4) hd-pvr - allows recording of any hd content provided analog(ie component) video out is available.

Of the 4 options 3 is the best overall but its expensive and limited to satellite, option 4 is generally the best option for cable but be aware that you will lose some picture quality (mostly on higher motion scenes). I cant speak to how well it works with windows 7 but I have been running an HDPVR with SageTV for over a year now and it works pretty much flawlessly. So much so implanning on ditching my rogers pvr and simply buying another stb and hdpvr to allow 2 channel recordings.

Hope this helps

[ScaryBob]

Another option is to use a Hauppauge HD-PVR. However, WMC does not support it directly. Recording will need to be done using other software and some file conversion will be needed. The HD-PVR comes with recording and file conversion software but it's not the best. SageTV does support the HD-PVR but that would mean leaving the WMC interface for HDTV.

[agover]

Lol - point 4 is referring to the hauppuage hd-pvr. As noted windows 7 media center supports it apparently. Sage is still the better option though

[xterrastrial]

agover - Thanks for your overview. That's helpful. Out of curiosity, how does the clear-qam method work? What output from a Shaw HD cable box do you connect and to what on the HTPC? Is it coax? HDMI?

I'm leaning towards the HD-PVR option in combination with dual tuner for the 3 OTA HD channels (already have the 2 tuners). I like the Telus TV option b/c it is less expensive, the HD STB comes is included in the 1+ year contracts and more flexible in terms of what programs you select. The biggest drawback seems to be that you can only have one HD Telus box, any additional boxes would have to be set to SD. The other Shaw benefit is that I already have the tuner set-up working for SD if I want to keep that going.

I'll look at our viewing habits with the wife and see which works better. Any other things to consider would be appreciated.

[agover]

Clear-QAM is available on some (not all) ATSC cards(OTA-HDTV tuner cards, im sure the dvico fusion gold is one such card). Basically you would plug your shaw(coax) cable directly into the tuner card without any set top box.

You would then need to find out which channels are available through a channel scan (all 600+) and only some would work - these ARE random. On rogers I know you can pick up some canadian HD & SD channels for instance, you used to be able to intercept VOD from other local users also.(that no longer works to my knowledge)

In truth firewire is a better opion (not only cost wise but a bit more consistant). Additionally shaw may not allow any clear qam channels (make sure you check dont spend a dime on either firewire or clearqam without confirmation).

[stampeder]

Shaw does not have any Clear QAM signals available in the Vancouver area, so that's a show stopper.

[xterrastrial]

Sounds like the HD-PVR is the way to go. Couple questions:
1) When using HD-PVR, is the picture noticeably different than if you connected your HD STB directly to your TV through HDMI?
2) I assume you need to use a IR blaster from the HDPVR to the STB to get it to change channels. Correct? Is this reliable?
3) When the IR blaster changes channels on the STB, it must record the on-screen display of the channel info from the STB, right? Is this much of an issue?
4) When using HD PVR, the STB just had to handle HD and have component output + optical audio out; the PVR in the STB is a waste. Correct?
5) If I go with Shaw, which STB models are best?
6) Does Hauppauge make a PCI card version of the HD PVR that you could install in a computer? Would just need the inputs, no outputs (except IR blaster).

Sorry for all the questions - this is much more complicated than my SD PVR setup ... but will be worth it.

Thanks!

[agover]

1) When using HD-PVR, is the picture noticeably different than if you connected your HD STB directly to your TV through HDMI?

- is it different - yep - with the HD-PVR you are recording an analog signal and then recompressing it in real time using dedicated hardware.

- I find it a good to excellent picture but I have inleast 1 friend that doesnt like it at all (note that I know of about 6 people with almost identical setups to mine and only one doesnt think the picture quality is good enough)

- In my mind it really depends on what you watch - high action sports like: hockey,football etc will show the limitations of the re-encoding. IE you will see blockiness during high motion. That said almost every non-action based movie or tv program should look just fine. Even action should largely be ok.

- basically the biggest difference is that the analog connection tends to produce a somewhat softer picture (ie the lines arent as sharp)


2) I assume you need to use a IR blaster from the HDPVR to the STB to get it to change channels. Correct? Is this reliable?

- I dont run WMC since I preferred Sage when I did my eval so with WMC I cant speak to this. That said I know many people are running this using either IR blasters or using firewire based control of the STB (firewire is 100% and can be used to control multiple stb's) with Sage.

- I use IR blasters and they arent 100% but they are pretty close. I get an occasional mistake recording but not too often.

3) When the IR blaster changes channels on the STB, it must record the on-screen display of the channel info from the STB, right? Is this much of an issue?

- Im guessing you mean the "info bar" that pops up usually at the bottom of the screen? Its not an issue. The info bar disappears usually in under 5 seconds and doesnt return until the beginning of the next recording.


4) When using HD PVR, the STB just had to handle HD and have component output + optical audio out; the PVR in the STB is a waste. Correct?

- Yes, in fact the pvr in the STB is likely a hinderence to using the HD PVR. In the case of Rogers their pvrs actually turn themselves off at night to conserve power, the normal stbs dont normally do this.

5) If I go with Shaw, which STB models are best?

- dont know - havent had shaw since like 1992

6) Does Hauppauge make a PCI card version of the HD PVR that you could install in a computer? Would just need the inputs, no outputs (except IR blaster).

- Nope - it wouldnt be practical in a pci card - there are WAY too many input/outputs
- 2x3 for component in/out,svhs,composite,2x2 audio in/out, optical, ir blaster

[xterrastrial]

Originally Posted by stampeder

Shaw does not have any Clear QAM signals available in the Vancouver area, so that's a show stopper.

I read on another forum that Shaw Vancouver only 5C protects the premium HD channels and that you can set up a 6200 through firewire to your MC PC.
- Is 5C the same as Clear QAM?
- Does what I've read make sense to you?

Feels like the firewire recording and live TV on W7 MC would be the best option and saves one extra box (HD-PVR) to buy and plug in.

Thoughts?

[KingBuzzo]

these are risky waters you are entering - are you sure it is worth it?

I have been recording HD thru VMC for a few years now and it has been challenging...

I was using firewire with Shaw's moto box (cant remember the model # - was replaced 5 times they are so crappy) when I first started and it was working well until one day I wasn't receiving any channels so I looked for another solution...

I ended up selling my Shaw moto and buying the R5000HD with a Starchoice setup - this has been very hit and miss for me as the software is extremely buggy in VMC - it crashes about 40% of the time and requires constant reboots - very unstable but sorta works...

I have heard about the new Hauppage but I heard that you can only record clear QAM thru it - I have read on many forums that there is zero clear QAM in Manitoba but I could be wrong - not sure about Couver...

I wish I had the option of OTA - all I ever really wanted was basic cable (HD) from the majors and fair use of my paid content...

[Wayne]

I am using two HD-PVRs hooked up to Rogers cable SA3250HD boxes. SageTV is my PVR software.

I disagree that sports are definitely inferior from the HD-PVR. The blockiness that was mentioned by agover is usually there in the original source material as well as the MPEG-2 codecs cannot keep up with the picture.

I find IR channel changing to be very reliable - I have used it for years on TiVos, an XP MCE PC and now it is used on one tuner for my SageTV setup. But I use firewire for changing the channels on my SA3250HDs since they have firewire ports. The firewire is not relable for extracting video but it is perfect for channel changes. I also believe that the firewire channel change does not bring up the banner on the screen when it changes, not that I care. I believe this can probably be disabled or at least the time of display shortened in the config for the cable box.

[baudfather]

I'm using Sage rather than VMC, and have 2 analog tuners and am using firewire to capture from my HD Shaw box (here in Vancouver). I seem to have ironed all the bugs out, and it now works 99% of the time. Getting the firewire to work perfectly involves a lot of work (not just plug-n-play) and patience. Not sure if you can get firewire to work through VMC though. 5c is the copyright protection policy in place on all the digital channels. I think most of the channels are 5c "clear", which means that you can copy the program and play back as often as you want. Other modes include copy protected, but I haven't run into that on any channels I know of. Clear QAM refers to digital channels available without a decoder box, but here in Vancouver they only consist of the digital music (audio-only) channels, so a QAM tuner card is fairly useless in this market. The HD-PVR is probably more "user-friendly" than setting up firewire, but from what I've read can be troublesome.