Ways to get DirecTV and Dish Network legalized in Canada?

[nakedgord]

Upon reading this thread I started thinking.

I understand Hugh's decision to lock the thread since, although he opposes the law, he feels a moral obligation to respect it however I don't think there'd be any harm in discussing how to go about getting that law changed.

Here's a few ideas I have. Any thoughts?

• Hugh said that he felt not allowing DTV and Dish was "Restraint of trade" - is there a tribunal that someone could file a complaint with?
  
• He also mentioned Violation of our civil liberties - what about filing complaints en masse to the Human Rights Commission?
  
• With the economy getting worse and worse DTV and Dish may be more interested in grabbing more customers while not having to invest in new birds to get their signal to S. America etc - what if we all started writing DTV and Dish en masse and requesting that they start lobbying Canadian politicians to allow foreign subscription based sat services in Canada?

Any more ideas?

[hugh]

nakedgord, discussing ways to get the laws changed is certainly welcome on the forum!

To remain a civil society, laws must be obeyed, however, our rights in a civil society allow us to agitate for a change in laws that we find are discriminatory.

Having said that, remember this went all the way to the Supreme Court in 2002 and the courts ruled that the Broadcasting Act was constitutional. NAFTA cultural protections pretty much assure that you can't make a challenge based on restraint of trade. Personally, I think it would almost be impossible to mount any challenge.

IMO, The only way this will change is if the politicians change the laws.

[peano]

Stephen Harper is on record as being in favour of opening up DBS competition to allow foreign providers.

I am sure it is not a top priority for the Conservatives, but it was in their plans in the past.

Lets remember the Supreme Court ruling was basically mandated by the Liberal filled Senate and by Sheila Copps and Allan Rock. It was a political ruling to keep BCE happy.

The Liberals have always bent over backwards to support the Canadian Broadcasters and in return, the Canadian media heavily slants their coverage in favour of the Liberals.

[nakedgord]

Originally Posted by hugh

Having said that, remember this went all the way to the Supreme Court in 2002 and the courts ruled that the Broadcasting Act was constitutional.

Although it may be constitutional I don't know one way or the other if the Human Rights Commissions base their laws on the constitution itself but more on the standard of international human rights.

NAFTA cultural protections pretty much assure that you can't make a challenge based on restraint of trade. Personally, I think it would almost be impossible to mount any challenge.

I certainly could be mistaken (it's happened often before lol) but I wonder if that provision would stand up against a WTO complaint. I'd assume for a WTO complaint it'd have to be filed by a nation state but, like with softwood lumber, the Americans seem to be pretty bully about forcing trade.

I think it would almost be impossible to mount any challenge.

I actually agree. I'm more or less musing on what's possible within that realm of "almost impossible" and wondering if there's any angles that's never been looked at before.

Whenver I've asked about actually paying for DTV or Dish in Canada everybody says it's illegal but the conversation never migrates beyond that. A decade ago I'm sure even gay people wouldn't have thought that gay marriage would be legal in Canada; who knows - in another decade pot might actually be legal.

Things change over time - even on the technological angle perhaps giving Canadian subscribers the option to subbing to an all Canadian On Demand channel may be enough to satisfy cultural obligations along with picking up the CBC (with US programming blacked out) for viewers across North America. CBC has partnered with a US provider before with Sirius so I'd have to assume they'd be interested in taking a shot at becoming the dominant Canadian media company again.

From the locked thread it certainly seems like Direct TV welcomes the idea of Canadian subscribers for those able to offer a valid US mailing address and SSN...I'd have to imagine we'd have an ally for them to get an extra potential 30 million customers.

[travisc]

Funny, I remember that argument at the time that it was a political ruling. Everyone shouted about how the Supreme Court had been appointed by the Liberals and were thus beholden to them. If one actually looked at the members of the Court at the time, it was interesting that the majority had NOT been appointed by the Liberals, so that argument was BS, just like the argument that this was done to keep BCE happy is BS.

The entire Canadian broadcasting system as it stands cannot have legal US competition, because they do not meet the requirements relating to carrying Canadian content, nor do they only broadcast channels that are on the CRTC's eligible list. The decision complied with the law, both as written and in spirit. The only way to change it is if the politicians decide to tear the system down.

Anyone who knows me and knows I work for a cable company will probably claim that the above comments are indicative of me being afraid of competition. Far from it. I think it would be great if the system got torn down - I simply wouldn't want to compete against Dish and DirecTV if we were still restricted in what we carry. I'd love to have more US content mixed in with the best Canadian channels to offer a compelling package to Canadian customers that I don't think the US providers would bother trying to match.

[nakedgord]

Originally Posted by peano

Lets remember the Supreme Court ruling was basically mandated by the Liberal filled Senate and by Sheila Copps and Allan Rock. It was a political ruling to keep BCE happy.

The Liberals have always bent over backwards to support the Canadian Broadcasters and in return, the Canadian media heavily slants their coverage in favour of the Liberals.

The Liberals did do that in the past but it seems like CTV and Canwest have jumped ship to support the Conservatives now (which is why I suspect foreign DBS services haven't been on their agenda).

After CTV used Dion's partial deafness to portray him as an idiot I can't believe that there's anyone in the Liberal HQ who hold favourable feelings towards them. And Canwest is well the Fox News of Canada.

During the election before last I even saw a CTV report on the national news about convicts being allowed to vote and they had the audacity to end it with a scary looking prisoner giving a thumbs up and saying "I just voted Liberal!"

Considering how in bed Canwest and CTV has been with the Conservatives I could only see it as a boon to the Liberals to get rid of them in Canadian media.

[nakedgord]

Originally Posted by travisc

The entire Canadian broadcasting system as it stands cannot have legal US competition, because they do not meet the requirements relating to carrying Canadian content,

That's going on a decade though and much has changed. From what I've seen of the Cancon productions lately from CTV and Global they've all been US/CDN co-productions.

After Chum disappeared the only media left who seems to be interested in creating solely Canadian product is the CBC.

What's left of Cancon could be provided to customers across North America with little bandwidth if the US networks put a clause in their international rights distribution agreements that Canadian buyers wouldn't have exclusive rights to US programming aside from OTA broadcasts.

[hugh]

Just a note folks to stay on topic. Please read post #1 before posting on this thread. If you want to rant about the CRTC then do so on the rant thread.

Directv not being available in Canada is because the Broadcast Act forbids it. The CRTC works within the Broadcast act and can't change it. Only politicians can.

[peano]

Originally Posted by travisc

Funny, I remember that argument at the time that it was a political ruling. Everyone shouted about how the Supreme Court had been appointed by the Liberals and were thus beholden to them. If one actually looked at the members of the Court at the time, it was interesting that the majority had NOT been appointed by the Liberals, so that argument was BS, just like the argument that this was done to keep BCE happy is BS.

The entire Canadian broadcasting system as it stands cannot have legal US competition, because they do not meet the requirements relating to carrying Canadian content, nor do they only broadcast channels that are on the CRTC's eligible list.

I disagree that the ruling was not politically motivated. I can understand not allowing US competition since they don't meet content rules, however branding me a criminal for obtaining a grey market sub was definitely going too far.

After that success limiting Canadians' right to watch encrypted foreign programming, Paul Martin tabled Bill C2 which would have made it illegal to import or own US DBS equipment and made the penalties for viewing US DBS incredibly stiff. Another blatant attempt to appease BCE. Thankfully he was ousted before it became law.

[57]

...branding me a criminal for obtaining a grey market sub was definitely going too far.

Clarification: It was grey market before the ruling. Thereafter it was black market! (Illegal)

[d2e8b8]

It sounds like the law needs to be changed to achieve this objective - maybe petitioning the politicians should be one of the options in post 1.

I think folks that benefit from this law (Canadian artists/ studios etc) would start counter petitions and they'd probably be more successful being more organized than us folks.

I've seen online petitions (Go train service for instance) that, once it had sufficient signatures, eventually made it to the media and was able to get a reaction from the authorities. That may be an option to consider although media support (given that the petition basically is against them so to speak) may be a question.

[magnet]

BTW, Stephen Harper does not have any dishes on the outside of his private residence in Calgary... I'm guessing he is a Shaw guy.

[nakedgord]

Originally Posted by hugh

Just a note folks to stay on topic. Please read post #1 before posting on this thread. If you want to rant about the CRTC then do so on the rant thread.

Opps! Sorry. I've modded my statement to remove any CRTC reference.

[nakedgord]

Originally Posted by peano

After that success limiting Canadians' right to watch encrypted foreign programming, Paul Martin tabled Bill C2 which would have made it illegal to import or own US DBS equipment and made the penalties for viewing US DBS incredibly stiff. Another blatant attempt to appease BCE. Thankfully he was ousted before it became law.

Remarkable. Even more so because this is the guy who, as finance minister, wanted to privatize the CBC only to be stopped by Chretien.

To be honest I don't really think of this as a Liberal problem - more of a Paul Martin problem.

[nakedgord]

Originally Posted by d2e8b8

I think folks that benefit from this law (Canadian artists/ studios etc) would start counter petitions and they'd probably be more successful being more organized than us folks.

I've seen online petitions (Go train service for instance) that, once it had sufficient signatures, eventually made it to the media and was able to get a reaction from the authorities. That may be an option to consider although media support (given that the petition basically is against them so to speak) may be a question.

All this is why I content we'd need the support of a third party agency like the human rights commission, WTO and even Dish Network/Direct TV themselves.

Just for the record I actually support Canadian Content and preferred Canadian TV in the 90's over American however, aside from the CBC, there's barely any 100% Canadian TV (aka no US/CDN/etc co-productions) programs anymore.