TVFool Canadian Discussion

[balm]

The Receive Pwr(dBm) level is a statistically derived estimate of the signal level delivered by a 0 dB gain antenna....

So, as I understand it, this means there is no direct mathematical link between the "Transmit ERP" and the "Receive Pwr level"

and

the "receive Pwr level" is based on a "theoretical" antenna, as opposed to the transmitter antenna, or the receiver antenna...

[holl_ands]

TVFool's "Receive Pwr(dBm)" is the calculated result of the complex ITM computer model.

Although it does NOT include the receive antenna gain (responsibility of the user),
it DOES include the transmit ERP level, as well as the antenna azimuthal pattern,
if it was input into the FCC database.

For the UBERGEEK: Additional explanations re ITM model can be found here:
http://www.softwright.com/faq/engine...gley_rice.html
http://users.ictp.it/~radionet/2000_...loss/INDEX.HTM
http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/pub/ntia-rpt/tn101/
http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/pub/ntia-...-100/index.php
http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/pub/essa/essa_erl_79-its_67/

[balm]

holl_ands;


thanks for all the information and explanations, it's appreciated. Now, much reading to do!

[red]

Hello to all!

A couple of days ago I discovered TV FOOL now has an interactive map! Everyone really needs to take a look at this. It has a built in feature which allows one to zoom in to his exact location, for precise latitude and longitude. I can see my rooftop, and mark the spot with an "'X" !

Television towers are marked by green and red dots and you can enable a feature which draws a line from your location to the tower. When you are finished with the map, the familiar radar plot can then be shown.

In my case, I noticed the radar plot now gives NM, or noise margin, figures which are more consistent with my actual reception.

There is more, but I'll let y'all discover for yourselves.

Good day!

[Emerald_Boar]

Awesome.
What makes tvfool.com so great.

Is that you can enter a postal code and get results.

Read ya l8r,
Al

[Legacy2009]

I just looked at my post-transition TVFool report and I have to say it's confusing. There are 3 OMNI 1's (CFMT) on channels 47, 64 and 69. They all map to virtual channel 47.1 What's up with that?

Similarly, ch 20 and 25 map to 25.1 for CBLFT, ch 51 and 53 map to 57.1 for CityTV and Global appears many times as well.

Will it really be this confusing, or is it just inaccurate information since Canadian broadcasters are not a high priority for a FCC database?

[recneps77]

Probably just errors in the FCC database. They should be cleared up by the time you have to actually worry about the new channel #'s

[stampeder]

Legacy2009, this has been an ongoing problem with using TVFool for Canadian info. See roger1818's comments in Post #10 of the OTA FAQ, and also remember to verify any Canadian info in your TVFool results with this site that is updated daily with Industry Canada TV station data:

http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblan...a_TV_Stations/

[holl_ands]

FCC and hence TVFool contains current Analog/DTV allocations, recent/soon DTV changes
plus the agreed upon Post-2011 Canadian Transistion changes....up to three entries.
There are also some proposed, but unapproved entries (OMNI may fall into this category).

Use the Canadian DTV allocation list to help resolve what is post-2011 and
what is near term....but since a Canadian station might change at some time prior
to 2011, you'll have to use other sources to determine what is REAL....

In general, an Analog channel will probably remain until 2011, when
the DTV can move from it's temporary assignment back to that channel.
The U.S. is vacating Ch52 and above TOMORROW....some Canadian stations
may also be vacating, but most are NOT....at least not before 2011....

[RamKat]

TVFool is certainly a stellar tool and the way to go. Comparing Stampeders list of available channels in Ottawa (which lines up pretty good with what I am recieving) with that of the TVFool website there are some holes in the TVFool listing from the Herberts Corners tower. (Camp Fortune looks OK) I am missing Channels 11, 27, 32, 43, 65 from Herberts Corners on the TVFool listing. Maybe the TVfool creator(s) can find some why of fuzing the FCC data with the data that Stampeder's list is using?

An active channel that is in TVFool but not listed by the link that Stampeder provided, is Channel 30 - CIVOTV - A French Station

[stampeder]

Originally Posted by RamKat

Maybe the TVfool creator(s) can find some why of fuzing the FCC data with the data that Stampeder's list is using?

I've had the opposite happen with the data too, in which Americans or else Canadians in border areas found my data useable only to find out that the info for the U.S. from Industry Canada was often incorrect. In 2007 roger1818 emailed Andy Lee at TVFool and me to pitch the idea of importing my web page data for the Canadian info into his site and vice versa, but it was going to be too complex for Andy's timeframe so he went on to other projects at his site. I'd be happy to help Andy get it up and running when he can.

Later I was in email contact with the folks at the RabbitEars.info site about integrating my data into theirs and they also stepped away from the task, not even accepting my offer to put in at least a link from their site since the Canadian data on theirs is so flawed. I felt like I'd gotten the cold shoulder, actually, so if you know any of those guys I'm still interested but I'm not chasing them.

Personally I don't have the time to write a data pump from the FCC when excellent ones like TVFool and RabbitEars.info already both do that, and then have to write a rosetta stone program for integrating them into a single db.

Originally Posted by RamKat

An active channel that is in TVFool but not listed by the link that Stampeder provided, is Channel 30 - CIVOTV - A French Station

CIVO is shown in the Quebec listings:

QC   Hull AL 64  CIVO-DT   453011 755101 300.0 15000 770.00
QC   Hull AL 30  CIVO-PT   453011 755101 353.2 406000 566.00
QC   Hull OP 30  CIVO-TV   R-QF  453011 755101 353.2 1774200 566.00  +

http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblan...a_TV_Stations/

[RamKat]

CIVO is shown in the Quebec listings:
Code:
QC Hull AL 64 CIVO-DT 453011 755101 300.0 15000 770.00
QC Hull AL 30 CIVO-PT 453011 755101 353.2 406000 566.00
QC Hull OP 30 CIVO-TV R-QF 453011 755101 353.2 1774200 566.00 +

Ahh That explains - thanks for the response - I should also run a filter on Hull in the Quebec side which is actually the strongest tower from where I live) - approx -20 to -30 dBm on most stations where the Herberts Corners stations are typically 15dBm lower

Question: How do you decide when to include it in the Hull listing and when to include it in the Ottawa listing? Reason I am asking is that the Ottawa listing includes channels from the same tower in Hull (Camp Fortune) 453011 755101

I felt like I'd gotten the cold shoulder, actually, so if you know any of those guys I'm still interested but I'm not chasing them.

I know the feeling - no I don't know anyone there.


I am wondering, can one use the TVFool data for say a specific tower and specific channel transmitted at a specified power value and estimate the dBm values for another channel (thats not provided by TVFool) that is transmitted from the same tower if one knows the transmitted power value?

[stampeder]

Originally Posted by RamKat

How do you decide when to include it in the Hull listing and when to include it in the Ottawa listing?

That is Industry Canada's database entry. I don't tamper with their database entries.

Let's get back to TVFool Canadian Discussion.

[RingtailedFox]

i've heard of the these terms a lot, but i only know what LOS is... (line-of-sight), but even my definition of LOS might not be right.. what are these?

- LOS (Line of Sight)
- 1Edge (Single-Edge Diffraction)
- 2Edge (Double-Edge Diffraction)
- Tropo (Tropospheric Scatter/skip)
- E-skip
- F2-skip

[keef]

LOS - you can see the antenna from your location - direct line of sight (ignoring trees and local buildings, of course)
1Edge - there is a hill between you and the antenna - if you went to that hill you could see the antenna
2Edge - there are two hills - if you went to the first hill you couldn't see the antenna, but you could if you went to the next hill
Tropo - the antenna is over the horizon

I don't know E-skip or F2-skip.