ATSC in Canada with Windows 7 MC via HDHomerun - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

pnear · 2009-01-20, 09:18 AM

Three years ago, I made a promise that I would ship a case of Canadian beer to the eHome team if they are able to deliver support for ATSC in Canada. Alas, their whistles go unwhetted in Redmond but as soon as I can track down the office location of the SiliconDust engineers they can expect to find twenty-four of Canada's finest sitting in their mail slots.

Today, they released the first beta driver that implements the workaround idea that I discussed only a few weeks ago in my blog (http://thegreenbutton.com/blogs/pnea...14/326955.aspx). To say I'm thrilled is an understatement. By paying attention to the user community and being willing to invest in some interesting ideas, they have won the support of many devoted fans. Today you can add me to that list. SiliconDust deserves every bit of business that they've earned, and I will personally pledge to help them continue their success within the Canadian Media Center community. I'm gushing, and I don't even know if it works yet.

Today I'm begging and pleading with Toronto-area vendors to let me come and pick up an HDHomerun rather than wait for shipping. I hope to have an HDHomerun tuner later today, and be able to post some results tonight as to my success with this new workaround. Worst case, this weekend.

You can find the beta drivers linked here: http://www.silicondust.com/forum/vie...?p=33972#33972

(This also applies to TV Pack 2008 for Media Center)

profets · 2009-01-20, 12:26 PM

this is great news.. i'm very curious to see your results after you have a chance to try it out.

pnear · 2009-01-20, 09:42 PM

I received the tuner today, and can confirm that the "QAM Spoofing" method works. I can get all my ATSC channels working in W7 Media Center. And I'm liking the new options for recording, such as:
- Combine one channel with multiple sources (ie Global via cable, Global via satellite, and Global via OTA are all the same channel, and I want it to always prefer the OTA source).
- Set HD versus SD preferences when setting up a series recording (mine are almost always "prefer HD", but you could also choose "HD Only", or "SD Only")

Pete

Wayne · 2009-01-20, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnear

I received the tuner today, and can confirm that the "QAM Spoofing" method works. I can get all my ATSC channels working in W7 Media Center. And I'm liking the new options for recording, such as:
- Combine one channel with multiple sources (ie Global via cable, Global via satellite, and Global via OTA are all the same channel, and I want it to always prefer the OTA source).
- Set HD versus SD preferences when setting up a series recording (mine are almost always "prefer HD", but you could also choose "HD Only", or "SD Only")

Both of the above are basic features of SageTV, as is support for Canadian OTA, QAM and Canadian cable/sat via the HD-PVR.

KingBuzzo · 2009-01-20, 11:33 PM

I thought there was absolutely zero clear QAM in Canada so the HDhomerun was useless here...

Please let me know if i'm wrong...

Wayne · 2009-01-20, 11:37 PM

If Peter can tear himself away from his PC he can verify but this tuner appears to "fool" Win7MC into thinking that ATSC channels are actually QAM channels. So yes, you are correct as you don't really get QAM channels in Canada but the HD HomeRun fools Win7 into thinking you are watching QAM when you are really watching ATSC OTA. Very clever!

Danno100 · 2009-01-20, 11:42 PM

I haven't used it much, but my HDHomeRun (on Cogeco) seems to tune quite a few clear QAM channels, but they all appear to be SD, not HD. At a minimum I get digital cable without a digital box. Is that correct?

pnear · 2009-01-21, 08:44 AM

On SageTV: Windows MC has the compelling feature that I already own it and several extenders. ;-)

On QAM: Yes, Wayne is correct. In their infinite wisdom, Microsoft chose to support QAM in Canada (which is mostly useless here) and not to support ATSC in Canada (which is becoming our broadcast standard). This driver hack makes Media Center think that it is communicating with a supported QAM tuner, when in fact it is only a driver trick and in fact it is tuning in OTA ATSC high definition signals.

Wayne · 2009-01-21, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnear

On SageTV: Windows MC has the compelling feature that I already own it and several extenders. ;-)

I have 5 V1 extenders that are unlikely to be used anymore - do you know anyone who wants to buy them!

The problems with MC continues to be (1) MS doesn't care about Canada (this is made evident that you need a hack even to watch OTA HD), and (2) it is currently impossible to get non-OTA HD channels into MC.

tczernec · 2009-01-21, 10:36 AM

Wayne,

Although I agree with you that Microsoft does not tend to focus their offerings on the Canadian consumer, I don't know if I fully agree with your statement:

(1) MS doesn't care about Canada (this is made evident that you need a hack even to watch OTA HD)

I set up VMC with a US zip code (Niagara or Buffalo - thanks to another user on this forum who suggested it) and am able to tune all Toronto-area stations. I am also able to manually add any other stations that might not show up, and the EPG data comes through without a hitch. I'm not sure if this qualifies as a 'hack' (I know there are some other hacks out there that allow you to use registry entries to make OTA work with a Canadian postal code), but it's fairly easy to work around.

Just my 2 cents!

Wayne · 2009-01-21, 10:55 AM

MS should not ignore OTA tuners when you set your country to Canada, nor should they have broken Peter's "hack" with TV Pack. Using a US zip code works somewhat but I don't think that this will allow you to also combine Canadian satellite/cable with OTA, will it? And I would think that most folks using OTA in Canada with Media Center will also have cable/sat.

And MS took something like two years to fix a problem with CGMS-A that was causing Canadians to not be able to record some shows via cable/satellite.

In 2009 to be a viable PVR solution you have to be able to record HD and that means all of your HD channels, including cable only channels. In the US you can buy a CableCard PC but that is not an option in Canada as you can't get a CableCard.

So by the time it is released Win7MC should support HD tuners such as the HD-PVR but so far MS has given no indication that they will do so.

tczernec · 2009-01-21, 12:11 PM

Agree - I'm staying far away from the TV pack (which is mostly for US QAM support anyways from what I remember).

I can't speak for other users, but once I get my OTA setup working, I will be dropping all cable and satellite programming and using just OTA - so the US zipcode trick works for me. If you wanted to keep cable/sat though, I think you have a point and that's not so easy..

Regarding external HD tuners, MC already supports in-system tuner cards (like Hauppage, etc.) but I think you're talking about external devices like the Hauppage HD_PVR, right? I could be wrong but I believe there may legal issues with streaming encrypted content from a STB via the HD_PVR to a PC. Bell and Rogers are very careful to not allow folks to transfer their recordings from their PVR's onto other devices (like PCs). Maybe with component (instead of HDMI) based recording this is not an issue? I would be interested to hear if anyone knows more about this..

Wayne · 2009-01-21, 12:26 PM

The HD-PVR is an external device that is connected to a cable/sat box via component cables - HDMI cables have encryption but the 1080i or 720p over component is arguably as good as the signal over HDMI. I recently swithced from XP MCE to SageTV where I have an OTA tuner, a Hauppauge PVR-150 (SD analog tuenr) and two HD-PVR tuners.

OTA only is not an option to me as I am a sports fan and you don't get many hockey or basketball games over OTA but that OTA vs cable/sat is another discussion.

Lethbridge · 2009-01-21, 12:30 PM

I want to preface my answer by saying that I am not an expert in this, and I am learning as I go.
My understanding is that adding the HDhomerun box with the updated drivers will allow you to record ATSC signals in Canada. The HDhomerun box tricks media center into thinking it is a QAM signal. I have 2 starchoice receivers connected to my pc, and I am planning on setting up an OTA system by this weekend, with the HDhomerun box, and from what I was told, the 2 receivers and the HDhomerun box will all co-exist in harmony. This being said, I am only speaking for people that use Media Center as I have no knowledge of the other platforms.
Once I purchase the parts, I will also install the tvpack for media center and I will let you know what my results are.
Based on pnears posts, this all works fine with windows 7, but I am going to try with Vista.

pnear · 2009-01-21, 01:27 PM

Yes, TVPack 2008 for Vista also supports QAM in Canada and will respond to the new HDHomerun drivers.

2009-01-20, 09:18 AM	#1
pnear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Milton, ON Posts: 664	ATSC in Canada with Windows 7 MC via HDHomerun Three years ago, I made a promise that I would ship a case of Canadian beer to the eHome team if they are able to deliver support for ATSC in Canada. Alas, their whistles go unwhetted in Redmond but as soon as I can track down the office location of the SiliconDust engineers they can expect to find twenty-four of Canada's finest sitting in their mail slots. Today, they released the first beta driver that implements the workaround idea that I discussed only a few weeks ago in my blog (http://thegreenbutton.com/blogs/pnea...14/326955.aspx). To say I'm thrilled is an understatement. By paying attention to the user community and being willing to invest in some interesting ideas, they have won the support of many devoted fans. Today you can add me to that list. SiliconDust deserves every bit of business that they've earned, and I will personally pledge to help them continue their success within the Canadian Media Center community. I'm gushing, and I don't even know if it works yet. Today I'm begging and pleading with Toronto-area vendors to let me come and pick up an HDHomerun rather than wait for shipping. I hope to have an HDHomerun tuner later today, and be able to post some results tonight as to my success with this new workaround. Worst case, this weekend. You can find the beta drivers linked here: http://www.silicondust.com/forum/vie...?p=33972#33972 (This also applies to TV Pack 2008 for Media Center)

2009-01-21, 12:11 PM	#12
tczernec Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Stouffville, ON Posts: 134	Agree - I'm staying far away from the TV pack (which is mostly for US QAM support anyways from what I remember). I can't speak for other users, but once I get my OTA setup working, I will be dropping all cable and satellite programming and using just OTA - so the US zipcode trick works for me. If you wanted to keep cable/sat though, I think you have a point and that's not so easy.. Regarding external HD tuners, MC already supports in-system tuner cards (like Hauppage, etc.) but I think you're talking about external devices like the Hauppage HD_PVR, right? I could be wrong but I believe there may legal issues with streaming encrypted content from a STB via the HD_PVR to a PC. Bell and Rogers are very careful to not allow folks to transfer their recordings from their PVR's onto other devices (like PCs). Maybe with component (instead of HDMI) based recording this is not an issue? I would be interested to hear if anyone knows more about this.. Last edited by tczernec; 2009-01-21 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Small error..

2009-01-21, 01:27 PM	#15
pnear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Milton, ON Posts: 664	Yes, TVPack 2008 for Vista also supports QAM in Canada and will respond to the new HDHomerun drivers. Last edited by pnear; 2009-01-21 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Typo

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2009-01-20, 12:26 PM	#2
profets Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ontario Posts: 763	this is great news.. i'm very curious to see your results after you have a chance to try it out.

2009-01-20, 09:42 PM	#3
pnear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Milton, ON Posts: 664	I received the tuner today, and can confirm that the "QAM Spoofing" method works. I can get all my ATSC channels working in W7 Media Center. And I'm liking the new options for recording, such as: - Combine one channel with multiple sources (ie Global via cable, Global via satellite, and Global via OTA are all the same channel, and I want it to always prefer the OTA source). - Set HD versus SD preferences when setting up a series recording (mine are almost always "prefer HD", but you could also choose "HD Only", or "SD Only") Pete

2009-01-20, 11:33 PM	#5
KingBuzzo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Posts: 273	I thought there was absolutely zero clear QAM in Canada so the HDhomerun was useless here... Please let me know if i'm wrong...

2009-01-20, 11:37 PM	#6
Wayne Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scarboro Posts: 5,578	If Peter can tear himself away from his PC he can verify but this tuner appears to "fool" Win7MC into thinking that ATSC channels are actually QAM channels. So yes, you are correct as you don't really get QAM channels in Canada but the HD HomeRun fools Win7 into thinking you are watching QAM when you are really watching ATSC OTA. Very clever!

2009-01-20, 11:42 PM	#7
Danno100 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Outside of Toronto Posts: 295	I haven't used it much, but my HDHomeRun (on Cogeco) seems to tune quite a few clear QAM channels, but they all appear to be SD, not HD. At a minimum I get digital cable without a digital box. Is that correct?

2009-01-21, 08:44 AM	#8
pnear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Milton, ON Posts: 664	On SageTV: Windows MC has the compelling feature that I already own it and several extenders. ;-) On QAM: Yes, Wayne is correct. In their infinite wisdom, Microsoft chose to support QAM in Canada (which is mostly useless here) and not to support ATSC in Canada (which is becoming our broadcast standard). This driver hack makes Media Center think that it is communicating with a supported QAM tuner, when in fact it is only a driver trick and in fact it is tuning in OTA ATSC high definition signals.

2009-01-21, 10:36 AM	#10
tczernec Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Stouffville, ON Posts: 134	Wayne, Although I agree with you that Microsoft does not tend to focus their offerings on the Canadian consumer, I don't know if I fully agree with your statement: (1) MS doesn't care about Canada (this is made evident that you need a hack even to watch OTA HD) I set up VMC with a US zip code (Niagara or Buffalo - thanks to another user on this forum who suggested it) and am able to tune all Toronto-area stations. I am also able to manually add any other stations that might not show up, and the EPG data comes through without a hitch. I'm not sure if this qualifies as a 'hack' (I know there are some other hacks out there that allow you to use registry entries to make OTA work with a Canadian postal code), but it's fairly easy to work around. Just my 2 cents!

2009-01-21, 10:55 AM	#11
Wayne Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scarboro Posts: 5,578	MS should not ignore OTA tuners when you set your country to Canada, nor should they have broken Peter's "hack" with TV Pack. Using a US zip code works somewhat but I don't think that this will allow you to also combine Canadian satellite/cable with OTA, will it? And I would think that most folks using OTA in Canada with Media Center will also have cable/sat. And MS took something like two years to fix a problem with CGMS-A that was causing Canadians to not be able to record some shows via cable/satellite. In 2009 to be a viable PVR solution you have to be able to record HD and that means all of your HD channels, including cable only channels. In the US you can buy a CableCard PC but that is not an option in Canada as you can't get a CableCard. So by the time it is released Win7MC should support HD tuners such as the HD-PVR but so far MS has given no indication that they will do so.

2009-01-21, 12:26 PM	#13
Wayne Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scarboro Posts: 5,578	The HD-PVR is an external device that is connected to a cable/sat box via component cables - HDMI cables have encryption but the 1080i or 720p over component is arguably as good as the signal over HDMI. I recently swithced from XP MCE to SageTV where I have an OTA tuner, a Hauppauge PVR-150 (SD analog tuenr) and two HD-PVR tuners. OTA only is not an option to me as I am a sports fan and you don't get many hockey or basketball games over OTA but that OTA vs cable/sat is another discussion.

2009-01-21, 12:30 PM	#14
Lethbridge Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 21	I want to preface my answer by saying that I am not an expert in this, and I am learning as I go. My understanding is that adding the HDhomerun box with the updated drivers will allow you to record ATSC signals in Canada. The HDhomerun box tricks media center into thinking it is a QAM signal. I have 2 starchoice receivers connected to my pc, and I am planning on setting up an OTA system by this weekend, with the HDhomerun box, and from what I was told, the 2 receivers and the HDhomerun box will all co-exist in harmony. This being said, I am only speaking for people that use Media Center as I have no knowledge of the other platforms. Once I purchase the parts, I will also install the tvpack for media center and I will let you know what my results are. Based on pnears posts, this all works fine with windows 7, but I am going to try with Vista.