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Bitstreamed dts-HD Master Audio - the "bitstream bomb" - UPDATED (Onkyo fix)

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#1 · (Edited)
Bitstreamed dts-HD Master Audio - the "bitstream bomb" - UPDATED (Onkyo fix)

The "Bitstream Bomb":

***See Post #8 for latest information

This issue has been documented in various places around the internet, including some reputable message boards. HDM players that bitstream dts-HD MA have, with certain movies, a demonstrated high volume pop through certain receivers. It will certainly wake up your neighbourhood and may damage your speakers. I haven't seen any confirmed cases of speaker damage reported, but there is a legitimate fear.

Movies known to have the problem:

* 1408
* Golden Compass (BD)
* The Fly (BD)
* Chronos (BD)
* Fantastic Four (BD)
* Hannibal Rising (HD DVD)
* Close Encounters of the Third Kind (BD)
* Eagles Farewell Concert (HD DVD)


Typically it occurs only once per movie.

Receivers known to be susceptible to the problem:

* Onkyo 605, 705, 805, PR885
* Integra 8.8, 9.8
* Yamaha RX-V3800, RX-V1800

There has also been an isolated complaint of it happening with a Pioneer 91TXH.

The problem appears to be related to older encodes that were authored prior to dts upgrading their authoring suite to 1.5 (September 2007) or 1.51 (December 2007). There have been no complaints noted with newer releases such as I, Robot. Some internet reports quote dts as saying that they have revised their authoring suite to take into account the issues with the specific IC. However, dts themselves have said that isn't the case but have acknowledged the two upgrades to their authoring suite. It could be that, as a byproduct of those revisions, the particular prefect storm of circumstances (specific IC, implementation, and particular datastream) necessary to produce the "bitstream bomb" has been addressed.

Marantz and Denon AVR's use a different IC chip for bitstream processing and do not have the problem. Also, some new pressings of Fantastic Four are apparently re-encoded and do not have the problem.

A number of different players have been used that all exhibited the same problem: Toshiba HD-XA2 & HD-A35; Pioneer BDP-95FD; Panasonic BD-30; and Denon 3800. I have experienced it in Fanastic 4 at about the 4 minute 35 second mark with an LG BH200 bitstreamed to an Onkyo TX-SR805.

You may want to use a different audio codec for those discs noted above. I know a number of people have been waiting for the Panasonic BD-50 and the Sony S350 because of the bitstream ability, but if you have an affected receiver, you may want to rely on a unit with onboard decoding.

Onkyo is reportedly aware of the problem and looking into it. This does not affect TrueHD via bitstream, only dts-HD Master Audio.
 
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#3 ·
Is the Samsung 1400 included in the problematic players? I guess it shouldn'd really matter on the player, it's the AVR that's going to cause the problem (well, DTS is actually causing the problem, but I digress.) I'll have to listen for it, since I use a Yamaha 1800. Thanks for the post.
 
#4 · (Edited)
The "Bitstream Bomb" Updated:

(Updates in dark blue)

This issue has been documented in various places around the internet, including some reputable message boards. HDM players that bitstream dts-HD MA have, with certain movies, a demonstrated high volume pop through certain receivers. It will certainly wake up your neighbourhood and may damage your speakers. I haven't seen any confirmed cases of speaker damage reported, but there is a legitimate fear.

Movies known to have the problem:

* 1408
* Golden Compass (BD)
* The Fly (BD) - 13:00
* Chronos (BD) - 38:52
* Fantastic Four (BD) - 4:22 or 4:35
* Hannibal Rising (HD DVD)
* Close Encounters of the Third Kind (BD) - 23:40
* Eagles Farewell Concert (HD DVD)
* Flight of the Phoenix (BD) -51:00
* Flyboys (BD)


Typically it occurs only once per movie.

Receivers known to be susceptible to the problem:

* Onkyo 605, 705, 805, PR885
* Integra 8.8, 9.8
* Yamaha RX-V3800, RX-V1800

There has also been an isolated complaint of it happening with a Pioneer 91TXH.

The problem appears to be related to older encodes that were authored prior to dts upgrading their authoring suite to 1.5 (September 2007) or 1.51 (December 2007). There have been no complaints noted with newer releases such as I, Robot. Some internet reports quote dts as saying that they have revised their authoring suite to take into account the issues with the specific IC. However, dts themselves have said that isn't the case but have acknowledged the two upgrades to their authoring suite. It could be that, as a byproduct of those revisions, the particular prefect storm of circumstances (specific IC, implementation, and particular datastream) necessary to produce the "bitstream bomb" has been addressed.

Marantz and Denon AVR's use a different IC chip for bitstream processing and do not have the problem. Also, some new pressings of Fantastic Four are apparently re-encoded and do not have the problem.

A number of different players have been used that all exhibited the same problem: Toshiba HD-XA2 & HD-A35; Pioneer BDP-95FD; Panasonic BD-30; and Denon 3800. I have experienced it in Fanastic 4 at about the 4 minute 35 second mark with an LG BH200 bitstreamed to an Onkyo TX-SR805.

You may want to use a different audio codec for those discs noted above. I know a number of people have been waiting for the Panasonic BD-50 and the Sony S350 because of the bitstream ability, but if you have an affected receiver, you may want to rely on a unit with onboard decoding.

Onkyo is reportedly aware of the problem and looking into it. This does not affect TrueHD via bitstream, only dts-HD Master Audio.

There are reports of a successful firmware fix for Onkyo x05 AVR's in Europe. At least one ambitious member of AVS successfully applied it to his North American Onkyo. It does appear like a fix is near, but nothing has been officially released in Canada or the USA yet. Yamaha has apparently released updated firmware in Australia that fixes the issue as well. I've also seen updated firmware files on Yamaha's Product Advisory Board site (for dealers) but I haven't seen it confirmed that if fixes the "bitstream bomb".

The good news is that it appears that both Onkyo and Yamaha are moving quickly to try and resolve the problem. Let's hope that both companies provide user installable firmware updates in North America soon (I don't think anyone relishes the idea of unhooking a 55 lb. AVR and lugging it to a service centre).
 
#5 ·
Well I didn't experience any speaker damage from this thank god, but it did take out the DTS decoder module on My kenwood 7070A Reciever, at least that's what I believe happened to it.. Fortunately I had a makeshift workaround by using the Azentech DTS connect audio card in the HTPC to do the decoding now instead of the reciever, and I now ALWAYS make sure that the Volume is Set very low at start up and at the movie ending when using a BD with a DTSHD soundtrack.. It seems as though the loudest pop occurs both at the beginning of the end of the movies.. the occasional one during playback don't compare to initial & ending ones, at least in my experience..
Fantastic Four was the killing culprit in my case.


Iam Waiting for the Yamaha 6160 to become availible later this month, to replace the older Kenwood.
 
#11 ·
htr-6190 owners please read....

i have the htr-6190 and contacted yamaha customer service via email two weeks ago after reading about the problem here. i received a quick response which included a link to a firmware update download and instructions on how to do it. its not complicated at all but your receiver settings get reset so you will have to set up everything again after the update and its only necessary if your receivers serial number is smaller than Y219817WY. check your serial numbers and contact customer service if need be and they will take care of you.
 
#15 ·
I have a RX-V3800 (Canadian) and I used the firmware from US site today. No problem at all. Aren't they the same US and Canada model? I think only the manual languages are different. We have French and they have Spanish.

Yamaha RX-V3800, Klipsch RC-7 centre, Monster THX SL200 front, Klipsch AW-400 surround and rear, Velondyne SPL1000R sub, Panasonic PT-AX100U projector, Samsung BD-1400 Blu-ray, Denon DVD-3810ci.
 
#16 · (Edited)
US and Canadian models are the same so the firmware in the US site should work. My only problem is I cannot register in order to gain access to the download because I don't have a US address which is required.

jjang and normc:

How did you guys gain access to the firmware?

Never mind, I found a way.
 
#17 ·
Okay, I downloaded the firmware and successfully updated my RXV3800. Played the Eagles Farewell Tour - Melbourne and the problem was not fixed. I still hear the occasional popping noise.

Anyone else who have similar experience?

by the way, it has now been three days since I sent an email and I'm yet to get a response from yamaha.
 
#18 ·
Okay, so I heard from yamaha, provided me the link to download the upgrade which is exactly what you get from the US website. I re-installed it, turned the receiver off for a few minutes, turned it back on, loaded the Eagles HD DVD and viola, all the poppings are gone. So, needless to say, I'm a happy camper.
 
#19 ·
Yamaha 6190

I emailed yamaha about the firmware for the 6190, and they sent me back a reply stating that I should send it in, or take it to my nearest repair depot for the upgrade. I have resent a message stating that for the 1800 & 3800 on the american web site you can just download and apply the update yourself, can I just do that myself. Hopefully I receive a better response this time.
 
#21 ·
I just bought my 3800 2 days ago.The first thing i was going to do was download firmware,But my serial number was way higher then the # they gave.

Ive played 3 movies so far and no bomb,No pop.Iam very happy.
That was one thing i was worried about.

I had a Marantz 7002 for a week and it to was having pops through DTSHD master. Marrantz told me i could not download firm ware.That i had to ship it out to them.That sucks. I happy that i gave it back:)
 
#22 ·
Obviously your new AVR already has the firmware preloaded.

The 7002 issue is a little different. There is some reported popping on dts-HD, but it's not the "bomb". There is an issue, but it's not the same one and it's no where near as severe (or threatening to equipment).
 
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