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July 18th: DSR530 Code CC Fixes, Features & Bugs

158K views 1K replies 167 participants last post by  NO-CRTC 
#1 ·
Check your target version tonight/tommorow.

As was posted here earlier and a C&P from another site that references a VP's response to a subscriber regarding the upcoming code:

The new feature set, if all passes, includes the following:

- Far improved operational stability for channel tuning (far few lock-ups during channel change -- in fact, so far we have seen none from that cause)
- Far improved timer performance for DVR recording, and for PPV recordings (again, so far no failures)
- Far improved performance for playback of DVR recordings (again, so far no failures)
- New sorting criteria for recordings
- A way to jump to identified times of recordings (i.e. 1 hour in)
For the majority of us that were on A8, this is great news as we'll finaly get the long sought after features that BC delivered to a selected few hundred.

For those of us on BC just waiting for the box to die after too many reboots, this should be a life saver.

Do check out all the new features in the beginning of the BC thread.

Enjoy the improved stability that CC brings.
Have faith that while not 100%, it's the closest the box has ever been and that new and exciting stuff is in the pipe.

From my experience in the past several weeks, what was quoted appears true for the most part.

Unfortunatly my source of information that gave me a closer view than most is no longer available.

Good luck and enjoy the efforts of many.

I'll still be around to help out as best I can.
 
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#128 ·
Weird info from Starchoice

I got CC and my box (which had been pretty stable on A* for the last 3 months) started crashing all the time. I removed most of my recorded shows and left 3 new ones. All the resets didn't help so I called SC for a factory reset. I haven't had any problems since, but I don't have much on the HD, and I haven't used the pause live record yet, and it has only been since tuesday night.

The interesting thing was that the gentleman from SC told me they stopped the distribution of CC at 4000 (or 5000) because of the problems they were encountering with it. He said that they have a total of 125k PVR users which I think can't be right. He seemed decent, but I hope what he says isn't true because that will mean when I start using my box to its full potential and load up the HD, I will start to get problems.
 
#129 ·
125K 530 Owners?

Keane - While I don't have anything to back this up, 125K 530 owners seems high. I seem to recall that SC only has around 800K total subs. That would mean that more then 15% of SC subs have 530 receivers. With all the problems with the receiver, I can't see that they could have sold that many,, but I could be wrong. Others will probably comment on this. As far as your problems with the CC code most people are reporting that it is far more stable then any other version. I went from BC to CC 10 days ago. I did not do a factory reset nor did I erase any of my HD movies. I see that the factory reset seems to have helped your unit. Hopefully it will be stable now. I have used my unit normally during the last 10 days. I've recorded several movies, made timed recordings, watched a recording while it is still recording it (chase recording). I have also paused and reviewed live TV on many occations. So far my box has not needed one reset, with BC I would have had 2 or 3 lockups by now. If CC starts to act up on you again, perhaps you can do up the ladder at SC and get them to send you a different unit to try. Good luck.
 
#131 ·
ARR said:
They only ordered 20K units and ~ 1/2 are still warehoused with A4.
They should start moving now that CC is out and the boxes bad reputation is changing for the better.
Not everybody is following this thread, so unless the vendor told the customer how bad the box was, there was no way to find out until it is too late.

If you visit the SC website, its sounded like the unit of the century... which was far to be true.

It may take sometime before the bad reputation is forgotten.
 
#136 ·
I have the CC code. I used to have the A8 code. I didn't really have any problems with A8, except for the resume function while watching a recording.

CC for the most part has been fine for me (knock on wood). I have found that my machine has locked up more often than it did with the A8 code, but a reboot on the front of the machine has allowed me to continue. Someone earlier mentioned unplugging their machine and that it solved the problem completely, maybe I will try that.

My one complaint about the CC code is the change in the FFWD speeds. Granted, I did think that FFWD was a tad slow with A8, but boy would I take it all back now! With CC, I find the first FFWD moves at about a 4-6 second increment, plodding along more slowly than a VCR. The second FFWD, however, gallops along at almost a 2 minute increment! So, when I try to stop the machine to watch, I typically land 2-3 minutes past my projected stop. Then I have to backtrack. It is terribly frustrating. :confused:
 
#137 ·
I have had CC now for over a month (I was lucky enough to be a beta tester) and while there are still a few issues (I have had to reboot twice), but overall I am quite happy this version compared with past versions. I did have an issue after the initial load and there was a lockup, but after a soft reset it has worked fine.

With A8 and BC I sometimes had to reboot 2-4 times a day especially if there are too many recordings. I now run with the harddrive almost full of both SD and HD programs without worrying.

For those people that want to get the most out of CC, you need to look back at the BC new feature list. For example pressing 3 and then skip forward/backward will skip you forward or backward by 3 minutes.

Thats my 2c.
 
#138 ·
A4 code on "new" 530's

GaryE said:
Wow, where did you get a receiver that had such old code? I got a refurbished receiver from *C the week before the update and it came with A8 and took the CC update the first night it came down.
I got it straight from *C. At least the replacement came quickly and I was told it was new rather than refurbished, but it is hard to tell. The box had been opened and resealed a couple of times but there could be any number of reasons for this.

I did get A8 downloaded last night so I am off A4 although the target is still 00.00. The "new" 530 is a definite improvement in that I don't have to reboot every 30 to 40 minutes like I did with the old one and so far I have had no broken recordings. With the old unit almost all of the recordings were broken.

I seems that there are hardware and software causes of the problems wth the 530, and that the problems tend to get worse as the disk fills or the machine gets older (both seem to happen at the same time, not unsurprisingly).

The new machine still has drop outs on the DVI video output and delay in the audio if you use the optical audio connection. On further testing I note that the delay varies according to the channel being watched. On most HD channels it is acceptable but it is very obvious on channels like the BBC world news with mono audio output. This is so obvious and so reproducable that I am amazed nobody else has reported it, but it is the same with both of the units I have had using A8 and earlier software. It also occurs on many of the music channels but is unnoticable unless you connect a separate sound system to the normal digital outputs at the same time.
 
#139 ·
osmosis said:
For those people that want to get the most out of CC, you need to look back at the BC new feature list. For example pressing 3 and then skip forward/backward will skip you forward or backward by 3 minutes.

Thats my 2c.
I guess I am one of those people.

That is a good suggestion to fix the problem.

I did go back to the BC thread, but after sifting through 10 or more pages of chatter, I gave up. There were still another 30 some pages to go.
 
#141 ·
This is a little interesting. It actually does sound like SC may have pulled the CC code. I would have expected, given we're almost 2 weeks from the date they started rolling the code out, that it would now be the only 530 code in the stream. Meaning that the only firmware a 530 could get would be CC, not A8 as someone mentioned downloading.

Of course, SC could still be doing targetted download to certain batches of Unit Addresses each day. However with the small number of 530s in the wild I would have expected that to be completed by now.

Weird.
 
#142 ·
I just got back from vacation and am pleased to say that the machine has not locked up. For a change I don't have to crawl under the TV to unplug the 530 every day or 2.

I'm a little disappointed at the speed though. It's a really slow machine. I was hoping that the DVR LIST would appear instantaneously, instead of taking the several seconds. I also noticed that the jump buttons are slower than they were with the BC code. I mentioned this a few times before, and I'll say it again. The DSR530 has some definite hardware problems. I don't think that the firmware fixes are going to address a lot of the problems that still exist. Some of you may be waiting for dual recording. Don't hold your breath! The DSR530 is working as hard as it can just keeping up with the mono recording.

The good thing is that the lock up situation seems to have been addressed. For me, that was the biggest problem. The only thing that happened last night was the machine appeared to be locking. Everything went black on my screen and there was dead silence. About 10 seconds later it all came back up. Not sure what that was all about.
 
#143 ·
Possibly...

Kevin270 said:
...The DSR530 has some definite hardware problems. I don't think that the firmware fixes are going to address a lot of the problems that still exist. ...
I guess I see the glass as half full, while you see it as half empty.
But given the fact that new code has changed the behavior in ways we thought may have been hardware failures, strongly suggest you may be in error.
I think now that there is substantially improved fundamental stability, there is clearly a time to do some optimizations and rethink the way some work arounds were done to get the box out.

I know before I left the project and had delivered the new IPG, there was noticable improvements in IPG navigation and usage due to some very simple re-thinking of the way things should be done.

While it doesn't matter to me any more, I really think you'll be surprised at how some simple changes have resulted in a much better performing box in many ways.

I hope they are able to bring it all together for the fall like they planned, but I'll be happy with a pre-Christmas release.

As for the speed, I guess they felt it was better to be stable that a speed racer that crashes.
Overall, I find the performance to be comparable with the Moto Cable PVR DCT6412 that has it's own shortcomings and is written by the Gemstar TVGuide group.

I have seen dual recording in prototype working, but it's not next on the list, Searchable & faster extended guide is.
A partial implementaion is set for Christmas with a little luck.
 
#144 ·
ARR said:
I guess I see the glass as half full, while you see it as half empty.
But given the fact that new code has changed the behavior in ways we thought may have been hardware failures, strongly suggest you may be in error.
While it is true that the DSR530 no longer crashes, the speed at which the machine operates has remained unchanged since May 2005. That was my point. If you have a slow processor or a slow computer, there is no software that is going to speed up the CPU.

Once again, I'm pleased that they fixed the lock-up problems and at least the machine is now usable after waiting for 14 months.

It will be interesting to see if any of these new and improved functions that you speak of actually ever materialize seeing as the unit is already struggling with the current code. Adding more code is just going to throw what we have now out of wack.
 
#145 ·
That would normally be true, but in the re-write process to accept the new graphics, many old baggage routines were stripped out as well as a general simplification of code as a result of a VERY high degree of re-usable code that in operation, results in a much more fluid unit to use.

For example, virtually ALL of the Options screens have the video window, so no need to turn video on and off all the time.

When browse bar graphics come up, there will be no video scaling, resulting in that annoying flicker and no video mode switching for the box.

So less to do, less changes, less to go wrong and better performance.
At least in the areas we had time to optimise.

Probably not in the area you wanted, but a start.
 
#146 ·
Kevin270 said:
While it is true that the DSR530 no longer crashes, the speed at which the machine operates has remained unchanged since May 2005. That was my point. If you have a slow processor or a slow computer, there is no software that is going to speed up the CPU.
I would beg to differ. There are always optimisations that can be performed to code to increase performance on slower processors. TV Guide/Prevue Interactive worked wonders in improving the performance of the Motorola DCT2000 STB when they switched from their 'beige' IPG to the I-Guide. There's always 'fat' that can be chopped from bad code.

We know, for example, the 530 hardware is capable of dual recording, with playback of a pre-recorded stream or live buffer, all at the same time. Plus it has enough cycles left to run the IPG. Obviously the coding of the firmware/IPG is not efficient enough to handle this effectively at this time, so they limit the unit to one recording plus a recording or live buffer. Better programming will (or should) allow the unit to do what it was designed to do, all things being equal.

Now I'm getting a better idea of just how high up the totem pole ARR really was, I would like to ask one question -- how (if at all) did the choice to go for the IDE to USB connection for the hard drive impact the unit? Although USB 2.0 has theoretically enough bandwidth to handle three HD streams, the CPU utilisation with USB does tend to increase quite dramatically the more operations it has to perform (not so much with IDE from my experience). Did this hinder implementing 'true dual tuner' functionality, or was it just a time issue?
 
#147 · (Edited)
The USB<->IDE thunking was a major issue.
The engineer that spec'd it left the program quite some time ago for unknown reasons.

You are correct that there is sufficient bandwidth in USB 2.0, but there is always some latency with it.
The initial drivers for the NEC interface chip were quite problematical and underwent several updates to even become usable.
Again, the chip ( Read Hardware) was fine, but it was the driver code (Read Software) changes the solved the day.
Kevin270, are you paying attention here!

There was a very early prototype that was IDE only, but it never progressed any further.

If the 530 follows in the steps of the DCT6412 that went to SATA in their Phase III implementaion, then I'd expect better results.

But I don't see that happening until all the inital units are sold.

Dual tuning was a timing/code complexity issue, plain and simple.
The unit needed to be brought to market and a conscious decision to deliver it with a dedicated watch and record tuners was made.

As part of the upcoming searchable guide, the code foundation is being purchased from another vendor and incorporates most of the advanced features, of whcih dual recording is only part.
Things like conflict resolution and content retention are a large part of that as well.

So by having supposedly mature tested code over newly invented code and just integrating the engines into the IPG should make for a much better product as well.

The slow DVR list recall is not a hardware issues, it a s/w one in the way the data needs to be read/created.
A better form of indexing the table of contents will solves Kevin's issue.
They will get to that at some point, but as has been shown, they were focusing on some basic stability for the CC release.

I think additional optimization could be made to have performance of trick modes become comparable with the Echostar 501/Bell 5100 that does true read after write so all video is buffered through the hard drive.
That is the standard of performace I had asked for going forward.

No more clunky switching from live to LOD buffer and near instant trick mode response.

Remember, what they have achieved in ~ 1 year for a 1st unit.
Have other vendors accomplished as much with as little in such a short time?

If they are able to follow through on certain visions set out and listen to customers and prioritize activities, they will evolve the 530 into a remarkable unit.
 
#149 ·
Well, I think my 530 died today. Didin't watch any tv today, but came up to watch a recorded movie tonight and the blue lights were cycling. Not sure how long they were cycling before hand, but I let them cycle for about 5 minutes, then tried a soft reboot, then a hard reboot, then a hard reboot while holding the power etc...can't get the lights to stop cycling. Spoke to tech for about 45 minutes and tried a few things, and they still won't stop.

They told me to let them go for an hour and if they're still going after that to call them back...I'll be calling them shortly. ANyone have any ideas?

I have the CC code, and I've found my box to be more unstable then it was on A8. I've had to reset it about 10 times in the last week, compared to about once or twice a month before CC.
 
#150 ·
Wow, that is one bad box. Might want to wait until Monday morning to speak to a 530 tech. They will probably end up sending out another one. My old BC code box died on a Monday night and I phoned Tuesday morning and had a new (refurbed) box the next day. I've only had 1 freeze up in the almost 2 weeks of the CC code.
 
#151 ·
New box - Same code - different issues

What I find curious is that now I have a new 530 apparently running the same code 00.A8 as I was with my old 530 that died, I now have new issues as well as the some of the same old ones. The DVI dropouts and delay in the optical audio compared with the normal RCA outputs is still there, but the optical audio delay only really appears to be significant on live broadcasts while the 530 is recording on the other channel. The DVI dropouts occur everywhere on HD, regular transmissions or when replaying recordings.

Howver my new box has a real problem when I hit the stop button while watching a recorded show. Unless I am watching the first recorded program on the list it defaults to another recorded program, changes channel and often locks up for several minutes. Sometimes it will sort itself out if I do absolutely nothing but if I hit delete or play it deletes the wrong program or tries to play another different recorded program. Curious. I did have cases when my old box would delete the wrong program in similar circumstances, but this is virtually 100% consistent!

I have been programing professionally at various levels since 1975 and was the CTO of a company running a software development lab in the 90's. I have seen some pretty sloppy work especially in recent years when programmers with little knowledge or understanding of machine language commands and basic DOS functions and routines attempted to fix programs by writing high level code over the top of badly designed basic functions. It never works; it just makes the problems more obtuse, more erratic and harder to duplicate. I believe that is the real problem of the 530 and until somebody bites the bullet and starts again from the basic functions and then builds a planned top level user interface utilizing sound basic routines the problems will never be solved.

Patches over patches never works for long! We can but hope for somebody to admit they screwed up and then start from scratch to get it fixed properly........
 
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