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Shaw Direct Simsub discussion

127K views 401 replies 92 participants last post by  NovaMan 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Shaw recently bought Canwest Global, and now they are simsubbing Global HD overtop of American HD channels, even in areas where they never used to! Shaw Direct does all their simsubs via the postal code of your receiver, and we still live outside the 75 km radius of the nearest Global HD OTA transmitter, so we here shouldn't be subjected to Global HD simsubs. It seems like they are just doing it with Global as well, because other Canadian networks like CTV aren't doing simsubs. Can they just change their ways because they now own Global? Where is our right as a consumer for them to follow the CRTC's policies?
 
#133 ·
I sent a point blank reply saying that since they have not received a blanket exemption for simsubs like Bell TV, doing this violates CRTC regulations and is particularly distressing since it is only happening with Global - a network they own.

I will take this to the CRTC, but my concern is that Shaw will just try to get the same blanket exemption that Bell has, albeit they would have a much harder time justifying that considering the technology they have at their disposal.
 
#134 ·
I also told them thanks for removing it, but then I did go onto state that they can't do this just because they own Global now, and I also warned them I will report them to the CRTC if it does comeback. But I guess it is already there for people who don't know about this opt out option, so maybe the CRTC should be advised anyways right now?

A few years ago for the SuperBowl, Bell tried providing a separate direct US feed (that popped up on one of their higher channel numbers just for the game that Sunday). The CRTC stepped in and stated that they couldn't deviate from their simsubbing ways. So the same situation should apply here, albeit in an opposite sense, because, like you said, Shaw already has the technology to do things exactly wrt simsubs.
 
#135 ·
I have to wonder why some people are being offered the opt-out and others are getting the canned "we do this because we love you!" replies? I wonder if it has to do with me being near Toronto (if 160km by car and 100km by the crow is considered "near") but not near enough to get a reliable off-air signal?

The funniest thing of all - Global had a transmitter in Fort Erie on Channel 55. They shut it down rather than converting it to digital as part of the digital transition at the end of last month. I'd be serious about taking this to the CRTC. You can't have it both ways.
 
#137 ·
where is everyone located?

Guys,
I think we can all agree that no one here like simsubs and that Shaw Direct has a financial incentive to simsub Global wherever possible. I have read some legitimate complaints in this thread, that would have merit if brought to the CRTC's attention. However, the sad truth is that Global Toronto is a valid simsub for most of the population of Ontario. Toronto, Ottawa, Midland, Paris and Stevenson Global transmitters are all under the CIII callsign and cover most of Ontario east of Lake Huron. DHC'er Emerald_Boar has previously posted links to the published transmission contours:

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/311/8/7/ciii41_by_emeraldboar-d32daic.png
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/324/6/a/ciii_by_emeraldboar-d338psz.png
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/311/0/c/ciii22_by_emeraldboar-d32dagj.png
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/311/3/9/ciii6_by_emeraldboar-d32dae0.png

If your home is within the outer solid line of any of the above maps (or the northern dotted line in the Toronto/Barrie map as channel 7 Midland has also been converted), then Shaw Direct has a legal duty to simsub Global in HD and SD. While many feel that these coverage maps are optimistic, they are what is on file and approved with the CRTC. Global has also received approval for a digital transmitter in the Peterborough/Cobourg area, so they will be allowed to simsub there when it goes online.

The reason CTV is only simsubbed in the GTA, is that Kitchener and Ottawa are separate CTV stations with different callsigns. Since Shaw Direct doesn't carry these stations in HD, they only need to simsub in SD.

The following would be examples of valid complaints:
-Global HD simsubs in Sudbury, Thunder Bay, Elliot Lake, etc
-Global HD simsubs in Peterborough
-CTV HD NOT being simsubbed in Peterborough or Toronto (I don't think anyone would complain about this :))

Also, my understanding of simsub rules is that BDUs are REQUIRED to simsub households in their OTA area, if requested. Maybe there is a provision that ALLOWS them to simsub other folks, as part of a negotiation between BDU and broadcaster. I'd like to see the text PROHIBITING simsubs for viewers outside of the OTA footprint - it may not exist.

I don't like 'em either, but them's the rules.
 
#138 ·
Sorry but until Shaw bought Global London never had a Global simsub. Unless the rules changed in the last year Shaw was previously breaking the law. In fact Shaw stopped the simsubs over the summer after their 'experiment'.

The only ones previously getting simsubs were those in the footprint of the Toronto transmitter. Plan and simple Shaw is now abusing its power with vertical integration and we the consumers are the victims.
 
#140 ·
clarification

LONSat I thought this went without saying ... HD simsubs of Global Toronto outside of the GTA were valid as of Global HD transmitters coming online in late August. Look at the map for the CIII Paris contour. If you are inside the solid circle then you will have to deal with the simsubs, get a really tall OTA tower, go grey market, or "move".
 
#141 ·
LONSat I thought this went without saying ... HD simsubs of Global Toronto outside of the GTA were valid as of Global HD transmitters coming online in late August. Look at the map for the CIII Paris contour. If you are inside the solid circle then you will have to deal with the simsubs, get a really tall OTA tower, go grey market, or "move".
I agree with LONSat, it is not just about Global in HD. Prior to Shaw owning Global, here in London we did not have any simsubs from Global in HD or SD. Now all of a sudden they have done both. So Shaw is taking advantage of the situation.
 
#142 ·
Shaw is certainly entitled to simsub Global in London in both SD and HD. I was not aware that London was free of simsubs in standard definition before being bought by Shaw. If anything, you can count your blessing that you didn't have to deal with standard-def simsubs in years past.

If Shaw were simsubbing Global in London, but NOT simsubbing CFPL/CTV2 in Londen, THEN you can say that Shaw is abusing its power and you could complain to the powers that be. If your complaint were recognized to have merit, your reward would be more simsubs!
 
#144 ·
Shaw is certainly entitled to simsub Global in London in both SD and HD. I was not aware that London was free of simsubs in standard definition before being bought by Shaw. If anything, you can count your blessing that you didn't have to deal with standard-def simsubs in years past.
I never received any Global simsubs here in Fort Erie until maybe two weeks ago either, and we even had a SD transmitter right in Fort Erie prior to the transition.

And yet, right now, the wife is watching the Emmy Awards and CTV Toronto isn't being simsubbed over WJBK, despite coming from Toronto as well.

Something isn't right here. This whole situation just stinks to high heaven. I mean I can throw it over to the Buffalo affiliates off-air if I don't want to be subjected to simsubs, but I just find it funny that they're simsubbing their own network but none of the others.
 
#143 ·
Ralph is right about this I think. It is possible that Canwest didn't care if Global Ontario was simsubbed outside of the GTA.

Here's my question, does Rogers or Cogeco simsub Global Ontario outside of the GTA? If they do, then Shaw Direct is doing nothing wrong.

I'm going to check tomorrow to see if Global Maritimes is simsubbed for me. I'm guessing not because Global Saint John isn't available on the 505, so it probably isn't possible.
 
#147 ·
CRTC won't help

Dear Sir:

This is in response to your correspondence of September 16, 2011 regarding Signal substitution.



For substitution to take place, the local or regional TV station has to make a request to the cable - or dth satellite tv - company in advance. It is their responsibility - not the station's - to ensure that signal substitution is performed in a manner that is "virtually invisible to the viewer".


We fully recognize that at times small amounts of programming are lost through the use of signal substitution and that this often results in understandable annoyance to television viewers. But such substitution is considered vitally important to our broadcasting system because of its effectiveness in helping to offset the damages that would otherwise be done to Canadian broadcasters through the vast array of U.S. signals distributed by cable, by satellite and other means.



Despite the occasional inconvenience to viewers, the use of signal substitution means that more Canadians are viewing Canadian stations, thus strengthening these stations and the broadcasting system as a whole. In these important respects, we consider our substitution policy worthwhile and valuable. Here is a link to our fact sheet on signal substitution: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/INFO_SHT/Bdt10.htm



All I can suggest is that when similar incidents happen in the future, please provide us with as much detail as possible - times, dates etc. so that we may more effectively investigate any problems. This is because we also expect that signal substitution will be performed in a manner that is virtually invisible to the viewer. Before writing back, please take the time to review our complaints process fact sheet:



http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/INFO_SHT/G8.HTM



I hope you find this information useful.


I am also providing you with a link to the fact sheet entitled "How to make a broadcasting complaint" which explains the CRTC complaints process: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G8.htm .

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please do not reply to this message using the email address indicated above as we cannot receive e-mail at this address. To reply or to add to your submission, please click here and follow the prompts: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/rapidsccm/landing.asp?lang=E&caseid=549560&key=41222.8803924769


Regards
 
#149 ·
To get anywhere, which still is usually not very far, you need to provide as much detail as possible. Specific times, channels, program names....

I did this years ago when Bell was being really sloppy at simsubs over the summer, and I eventually did get a (rude) response from the Regulatory Compliance officer at Bell, offering his findings and opinions on the matter.
 
#151 ·
I don't seem to have it anymore, this was probably 6 years ago.
Over that summer, I noted several examples of simsubs over the US networks that were not replacing the same show.

I had complained MANY times about simsubs starting up to 30 seconds after the start of the program on the US network. In the response, I was effectively told to deal with it and that 30 seconds of a 30 min program was less than the 5% difference they were allowed. I was also asked if I was keeping a log of everything they were doing wrong. They also included a part asking me not to share or discuss the correspondence.

I was always convinced that they had a note placed on my account after that.
 
#152 ·
Well isn't Thunder Bay simsubbed with CHFD in standard definition? Shaw Direct can't simsub Global HD Toronto in Thunder Bay because it isn't the local affiliate (it is for the rest of Ontario). And, of course, they don't carry CHFD in HD, so Thunder Bay is simsub free for HD programming.
 
#155 ·
They offered to change a setting on my account that "may" prevent the simsubs from happening. I was told the only drawback is that all my channel numbers would change so I'm presuming that this trick only works with the advanced line-up.
My wife would kill me if all the channel numbers changed so I didn't have them do anything for now.
 
#159 ·
Here's part of the response I got from Shaw to my simsub complaint. They say it is valid of ALL of Ontario.

" Signal substitution is done to bring millions of advertising dollars back into the Canadian broadcasting system. The CRTC has a duty, under the Broadcasting Act, to foster a strong and financially viable domestic industry. When broadcasters buy programs from American and Canadian producers or networks, they pay for exclusive distribution rights in their home markets. The simultaneous substitution regulation, set out in the CRTC Cable Regulations, is designed to protect those rights. These regulations permit Canadian broadcasters who purchase American programming, to use signal substitution as a means to earn advertising dollars. The CRTC has recently allowed the Virtual Channel Override to include all of Ontario, expanding the regions beyond the 75 km over the air reach that was previously in effect."
 
#160 ·
From the sounds of things people down east really only have two choices. 1. Record the west HD feeds(Unless its a sporting event). 2. "Move" their service address while keeping their billing address the same. A friend of mine recently went with the #2 option and so far so good.
 
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