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DVB-S2 on 6ft

10K views 34 replies 11 participants last post by  Danster 
#1 ·
Hello everyone,
So we're looking into getting a C Band system, but of course I think it's impossible to get any dish bigger than 6ft. We want a motorized setup to pick up as much as we can. The receiver I'm looking at is the Azbox Premium HD Plus receiver. From what I gather, it should be fairly easy to get DVB-S signals with a 6 footer, but DVB-S2 is going to be tricky. What does everyone say? Is it possible to get DVB-S2 signals on a 6 foot dish?

Also, what is a "conical scalar", or rather, what's the purpose of it?

I'm located in South Western Nova Scotia.

I'm sorry if these questions sound stupid :confused:
 
#2 ·
I'm not sure how many DVB-S2 feeds there are on C-Band, but I have read about the CBS feeds for programming and the NFL, and most people recommend a 10-footer or larger dish (and the FEC rate is high on those - 9/10). The conical scaler ring helps gather (and concentrate) signals easier than a flat scaler ring. I've got one on my Ku-band dish to try and get C-band signals (although I haven't been successful yet in grabbing any).

I do have the AZ Box Premium Plus HD receiver myself, and it's great for the DVB-S2 signals on Ku-band that I do get, like the NBC Mux at 103 degrees. The CBS feeds I mentioned are 4:2:2, and the AZ Box Premium Plus HD can do them.
 
#3 ·
I do have the AZ Box Premium Plus HD receiver myself, and it's great for the DVB-S2 signals on Ku-band that I do get, like the NBC Mux at 103 degrees. The CBS feeds I mentioned are 4:2:2, and the AZ Box Premium Plus HD can do them.
Thanks for that. I read that the AZ Box Premium HD Plus was the best for that exact reason. I looked it up on ebay and it's a bit expensive $350+ but I think it'll be worth it.

As for the conical scalar, I guess that means it's irrelevant on a 6 foot dish.

What does "FEC" mean, and how does it, or does it, relate to the dish size? Are there any DVB-S2 channels people can pick up on a 6 foot dish?
 
#4 ·
I picked up C band on my 1 meter Ku Starchoice dish using the scalar ring. It was however on the low side but it did work. Now I just use my 6 footer.
 
#6 ·
6 foot dishes aren't recommended for CBAND in North America because they are susceptible to adjacent satellite interference. They are susceptible to adj sat int. because the beamwidth of the antenna is wider than the two degree spacing of the satellites in the crowded clark belt. In other words your dish can see more than 1 satellite at the same time, thus interference.

I don't have any 1st hand experience with a conical scalar but the way I understand it is the conical scalar ring is an attempt to limit the signal gathered from the adjacent satellites on smaller dishes. Thus reducing adjacent satellite interference.

If I was looking for a new antenna here (outside of Buffalo) today I wouldn't go any smaller than 8 ft dia. I currently use a 7.5 footer.
 
#7 ·
Never been able to get S2 on yet. I had bought a better LNB but it doesn't fit good in the LNB neck holder. I tried by putting rolls of black tape to make it bigger but it only twists with the heat of the sun.

RIght now I'm too busy setting up my Halloween display to play with it but might play with it in October.
 
#8 ·
Should also add that ya probably won't see adjacent satellite interference accounted for in the various websites that "recommend" a minimum dish size based on your location and desired satellite eirp footprints. So IMO they are very optimistic.

For instance, satbeams.com says I could get away with a 1.3m dish on CBAND on G28 at 89W. No way an antenna that small would ever work in the real world.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the answers everyone it is greatly appreciated! Just one more question in reference to interference that majortom mentioned, if 6 ft is able to get interference from adj. satellites, what keeps the bigger dishes from not getting the interference?
 
#10 ·
6 footers can get some/most S2 signals depending on location, tuner, lnb and how tuned the dish is. Picture this, I had the 6 foot panels attached to a sg2100 mounted on self-made in 20 minutes 3 foot high wood mount then I used logs under the legs to elevate the dish. ...it was ugly, huge, crocked, uneven and a stupid idea to boot but I got the S2 signals of 99W. Once PROPERLY installed, it shouldnt be too shabby.

Cheers, K
 
#11 ·
Just setting up a 6' dish system as we speak. I'm waiting for a new LNB and a Pansat 9500, to arrive. I too want to get a shot at those DVB S2 signals on 101w and 87w. Add the Anik C Band ITC HD channels and it should be all good, here in Eastern Ontario. Also going to get my DSR 921 up and running with it. It's going to take a while, to get it going, but I'll be glad to have it, before the U.S. Election and watch the Middle East explode. Had a C Band system, back in the days of the death of Diana and the Bombing in Oklahoma City. Some of the raw feeds were unforgettable.
 
#12 ·
As the dish size increases, the beamwidth of the antenna decreases.
So with larger dishes their antenna pattern is so narrow (less than 2 degrees wide), it can't see more than one satellite at once. So no adjacent satellite interference.

It's a function of Dish Diameter and dish depth, commonly specified as F/D Ratio. Play around with some numbers with this web based calculator. And you'll see my antenna isn't exactly ideal. Why I can miss some weaker DVB-S2 feeds that someone in the same area could receive perfectly fine with a 10 foot antenna.

My dish dimensions are
diam 90 in, depth is 15 in, Focal length ~ 34 in (0.38 F/D Ratio)

http://kb9mwr.dyndns.org/n9zia/parabolic.main.cgi

Highly recommended reading for the planning stages and during the process of a CBAND dish installation...

http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/tuningp4.html
 
#13 ·
I think this is in response to one of Danster's posts -- but I am not sure if Danster was following up on someone else's question.

In any case, I have found some success in usng a black sono tube cut about 2 inches wide to fit over the LNB (put one horizontal cut through the middle to wrap around the LNB. This should allow for a solid hold within the LNB holder.

I tried black electrical tape too -- did not work for the same reason that you described.

Unfortunately, Home Depot / Rona / Cdn Tire only sell them in 4 ft lengths, so almost of it goes to waste unless you can find another use.
 
#17 ·
nothing says ya have to buy a NEW dish. Many are had for free.
 
#18 ·
At Class83: This area has quite a few 10-12-15ft dishes that are free for the taking or the seller wants a few bucks for. 6 and 8 footers are near impossible to find.

Steve: which Montreal dealers are you talking about? All my searching, the few "FTA" stores on the island really just specialize in signal theft. The only reputable dealer I know of is in Vaudreuil but its a heck of a drive from Candiac.

Cheers, K
 
#19 ·
OK, one step closer to getting my 6' system up and working. I actually have the dish pointed, using my DSR921. I am waiting for my new Pansat 9500 to arrive and actuator wire. I installed the new Ku/C LNB and used my meter to peak the signal strength. Whoever had the dish before, had it pointed at somewhere just west of E2, so I can't receive any usable signal on that bird. Once all is in place, I'll take a copy of the current unsubscribed bin, send it to Mapmasters, then subscribe the 921 for a few minutes, to reset the clock. Then I can send a copy of that to Mapmasters and they can decypher where the bit code is, that changes the time on the box. In return, I'll get a clean channel map, for DC2 and then playtime begins. It's been almost 15 years, since I've had a C Band setup.
 
#20 ·
Barring any unforseen circumstances (severe weather, raging girlfriend etc) I should be installing this dish.

Saturday: dig 4 ft hole, fill it w/ cement and add pole (2.5"/ 8 feet long).
Sunday afternoon: mount this on pole
Sunday night and Monday: fine tune it.

When its all said and done, I'll be posting some pictures along w/ results.

Cheers, K
 
#22 ·
#23 ·
I remember when they did mine, back in the late 80's. They actually drilled a few 1/2 inch holes, near the bottom, so the cement could run through and keep it from turning.

I have a large cement pad, in the back yard, that was used to fill in a septic tank, 25 years ago. I actually had a half inch foot plate welded on the bottom of a 6 foot pole and 6 5/8th inch holes drilled in the plate. I then drilled down through the concrete, about 6 inches and using anchors, screwed it into the concrete pad. The pole is plumb and the dish is up. I am waiting for some actuator arm cable, but I was able to pick up Anik E2, with my DSR921. Can't wait to finish it off.
 
#25 ·
OK, I've had my 6 footer up for a couple of weeks and have found that it is not a suitable option. I find that the beam width is too wide and it obliterates some of the weaker satellites, if there is a strong one nearby. I also find the DBS Canadian satellites also obliterates any C/Ku band signals, 2 degrees in each direction. If I use the 6 footer, Galaxy 17 C Band works, but some of the weaker transponders are over run by Nimiq 1 at 91 degrees. I'm also finding a similar problem, near 82w and the 2nd Nimiq location.

I am now on the hunt for a 10 footer, to deepen the signal strength and allow some of the weaker satellites to be received.
 
#26 ·
Assuming your using the right type of feed to illiuminate the dish and it's installed correctly, I don't think you should be having a problem on Ku Band with strong adjacent satellites. The beamwidth of an antenna on Ku is probably about ~ 1/3 that of C Band. ie somewhere less than 1 degree 3 dB BW on Ku and ~ 3 degrees on CBAND for a dish around that size (~ 1.8m). This makes Ku Band alignment very touchy.

Can you post some pictures, pointing out the feed from a distance, and a closeup? Let's see what you have there.
 
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