Costco LG 50" Plasma - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

jcol · 2012-04-23, 02:25 PM

I have been thinking about a TV to replace my original Toshiba CRT rear projector HD TV which has be relegated to my basement den. I have a 60 Sony SXRD as my primary HD set in another room. The Sony has been a very good TV for the last 3 years, but that's another story. Anyway the Toshiba CRT still works great and looks OK however the remote sensor on the TV i stopped working, a minor problem, but still a problem. Thinking I would replace this set when it died I starting looking and on Saturday at Costco a 50" plasma LG caught my eye because of its styling and price. The only thing that stopped me from buying it is that it is a 720p panel. While in Costco I got the remote and did manage to get an exceptable looking picture from it so after asking if I could return it if I didn't like it I went ahead an bought it for $480 plus tax and $25 enviormental surcharge. After getting it home and setup I found a couple of tips on setting up the picture and I must say the picture to me looks very good. Great blacks and contrast. Motion is smooth and viewing angles are wide. While doing some research on the net I noticed a lot of people saying that 720P sets were not truly HD and should only be considered Enhanced Defination. Is this really fair? It says HD on it's box and I've been watching HD for 10 years now and it sure looks HD to me. I realize it's not quite at the current 1080p standard but I would still consider this an HD set. Either way I think I'll keep it. Thanks.

57 · 2012-04-23, 02:51 PM

Quote:

I noticed a lot of people saying that 720P sets were not truly HD and should only be considered Enhanced Defination

No, 720P is HD. 480P is ED. BTW, your TV is probably 768P anyway and if you thought it was a good deal and provides you with a good picture, enjoy. Here are some FAQs and posts that may be useful:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741 Useful Post

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76161 Optimization

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73528 Native Resolution.

gmd · 2012-04-23, 02:57 PM

The enhanced you are referring to, or EDTV was 480p. There were lots of plasmas that came out a few years ago with 480p.

This brings back the 720p/1080i debate. Unless you're close enough to get nausea, you shouldn't see any differences.

Back when you it was all between 720p plasmas and 1080p LCD, the 720p plasma were considered by some as better than a 1080i with lower contrast ratio, as contrasts is what our eyes pick up most. In those days, 1080p plasmas meant (way) more margins for everyone.

Enjoy the picture!

jcol · 2012-04-23, 03:18 PM

Thanks for the replies. Most of the reviews for this set were very positive and at this price point I'm not going to worry about it however this is the statement from the review that made me pause. They are not talking so much about the 720P but the panels native resolution. Here is a cut and paste from and otherwise very favorable review:

"To some people, the difference between 1024 pixels and 1920 pixels on a plasma television doesn't seem like much of a difference. However, to others, the difference between true high definition and enhanced definition is a big deal. The images displayed on the LG 50PT350 are impressive, but they're not in true HD. If high definition is not a high priority on your list, this plasma TV might suit your needs."

Again I was a little surprised that a review would state that the image displayed by this panel are ED and not HD, but it appears that there might be some debate on this point?

57 · 2012-04-23, 03:48 PM

When HD was "defined" over a decade ago, 720P and 1080i were deemed as HD and 480P was ED. 480i is obviously SD.

As 1080P came along, the snobbery that went along with owning such a TV meant that some reviewers and owners started calling this de-facto (or true) HD with anything less being "less than HD". As the race towards 4K and other technologies continues, 1080P will be snubbed by those new reviewers and owners I'm sure.

Since your TV is 768 x 1024 it does have significantly fewer pixels than 1080 x 1920, however, as mentioned in previous posts, the viewing distance can have a dramatic impact on whether that is even noticeable and what matters is that you're happy.

Michael TLV · 2012-04-23, 04:22 PM

Greetings

It's been a while since I had to look, but the HD 42/43" panels used the 1024x768 array. The 50" panels usually used the 1366x768 array so they were slightly better than the 1280x720 of the 720p format for HD.

When the 1080p displays first came out, Sony started to use the slogan of Full HD .. applying it to 1080 P.

ED sets are 852x480 for a pixel array. So better than DVD (720x480) ... but less than 720p ...

The 1366x768 panel that your 50" likely is ... will throw out the extra data from a 1080p signal ... until it fits the 1366 array. For a 720p signal, it has to scale up the image to fit the 1366 array. As such, 1080p/1080i images will always look a bit crisper than 720 images. Set the cable box to 1080i would be better than 720 ...

regards

57 · 2012-04-23, 04:29 PM

Michael TLV The panel is 768 x 1024 as mentioned in post 4 and as indicated in the specs on the web. It is true that 1024 was typically limited to 42" plasmas, but this 50" is 1024, part of the reason for the price probably.

Download pdf for specs: http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-50PT350-plasma-tv

Click on Specs: http://www.lg.com/ca_en/tv-audio-vid...tv-50PT350.jsp

As discussed in my "native" FAQ post 2, most TVs prefer 1080i signals over 720P which reinforces your statement. More on the topic below:

On Upconversion FAQ: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=87543

If you're on Bell Sat/Fibe, then 720P may be a better output option for this TV since Bell send all the (HD) signals as 720P after converting at their end. This would eliminate one conversion step.

Michael TLV · 2012-04-23, 05:06 PM

Thanks ...

We will only really know the resolution on that panel if you look at the pixel array on it.

1024x768 panels do not use square pixels ... they are rectangles. (1.33 aspect ratio if they are squares)

1366x768 panels use square pixels. (1.78 aspect ratio if they are squares)

720p bell ... that's what I hate about them. crappy for the 1080p tvs.

Regards

jcol · 2012-04-25, 10:31 AM

It has rectangular pixels. They are oriented so that the longer sides of the pixel is pointing up/down. Picture is fine for the price point. Thanks.

Michael TLV · 2012-04-25, 11:55 AM

Greetings

Well there you go ...

Thanks

(Although ... what is the shape of the RGB triplet? Not the individual R element or G element or B element. The RGB elements combine into what? a square or a rectangle? A pixel contains all three ... a subpixel contains only one color)

PPL4GOLF · 2012-04-28, 07:48 PM

There is no issue with rectangular pixel except when connecting to PC. The resolution has to be set to a non-native 16:9 resolution like 1369x768 and the text will not be as sharp though readable.

The price differential these days are so little between 720p and 1080p. I would only consider 720p if I were not to connect a PC plus and also were to use it half the time to watch standard definition content.

Wayne · 2012-04-30, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcol

I have been thinking about a TV to replace my original Toshiba CRT rear projector HD TV which has be relegated to my basement den. I have a 60 Sony SXRD as my primary HD set in another room. The Sony has been a very good TV for the last 3 years, but that's another story. Anyway the Toshiba CRT still works great and looks OK however the remote sensor on the TV i stopped working, a minor problem, but still a problem.

Hey - we have similar equipment as I have a 10 yr old Toshiba 50H81 RPTV and a newer Sony 60" SXRD LCOS.

If the pic on your Toshiba is still good and you have an old receiver, even a stereo receiver, then use that for audio. You can use a cable or sat box for tuning and a Harmony remote to tie them all together. Then you only need to control the power of the TV not the audio or the tuning. It isn't too much of an inconvenience to manually push the power button when you start or stop watching TV.

sailmaker · 2012-05-09, 08:36 PM

Costco LG 50" Plasma
Original poster jcol asked about the LG 50" at Costco. The store in Burlington only carries the 720p so I ordered off their internet site. Delivery was about 6 days including a weekend. I have started drinking heavily again after struggling to get the set down to the family room and onto the stand.

It has taken a few days when time is available to get a DVR from Cogeco store front. We have had a 32" Sharp upstairs for over a year (calibrated by our very own 57). I did not know that whatever package(s) we already subscribe to is what I will have in the family room. Not a problem but I did go thru a few hoops before everything was up and running to my likeing.

@jcol: The $50 discount sale is over but in my opinion this is the plasma to go for. I "had" to take the Motorola 6412 DVR but the Cogeco remote is the same for both TV's. Go for it but I suggest ordering on line for the 1080 full HD set.

As a general interest to all, Cogeco now supports HDMI. In fact, contrary to the packing slip with the 6412 says a component cable set is enclosed plus some other items that are not really included and not needed.

The mods will delete me if I continue with my review but yes, go for it.

2012-04-23, 02:25 PM	#1
jcol Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 423	Costco LG 50" Plasma I have been thinking about a TV to replace my original Toshiba CRT rear projector HD TV which has be relegated to my basement den. I have a 60 Sony SXRD as my primary HD set in another room. The Sony has been a very good TV for the last 3 years, but that's another story. Anyway the Toshiba CRT still works great and looks OK however the remote sensor on the TV i stopped working, a minor problem, but still a problem. Thinking I would replace this set when it died I starting looking and on Saturday at Costco a 50" plasma LG caught my eye because of its styling and price. The only thing that stopped me from buying it is that it is a 720p panel. While in Costco I got the remote and did manage to get an exceptable looking picture from it so after asking if I could return it if I didn't like it I went ahead an bought it for $480 plus tax and $25 enviormental surcharge. After getting it home and setup I found a couple of tips on setting up the picture and I must say the picture to me looks very good. Great blacks and contrast. Motion is smooth and viewing angles are wide. While doing some research on the net I noticed a lot of people saying that 720P sets were not truly HD and should only be considered Enhanced Defination. Is this really fair? It says HD on it's box and I've been watching HD for 10 years now and it sure looks HD to me. I realize it's not quite at the current 1080p standard but I would still consider this an HD set. Either way I think I'll keep it. Thanks.

2012-04-23, 02:57 PM	#3
gmd Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Gloucester, ON Posts: 785	The enhanced you are referring to, or EDTV was 480p. There were lots of plasmas that came out a few years ago with 480p. This brings back the 720p/1080i debate. Unless you're close enough to get nausea, you shouldn't see any differences. Back when you it was all between 720p plasmas and 1080p LCD, the 720p plasma were considered by some as better than a 1080i with lower contrast ratio, as contrasts is what our eyes pick up most. In those days, 1080p plasmas meant (way) more margins for everyone. Enjoy the picture! __________________ SC: 8-Feb-02>21-Jul-09 (TFO) \| EVu: 23-Jan to 03-Feb-07, back 20-Jun-09 Bell, French packages, pls! Long live OTA!

2012-04-23, 03:18 PM	#4
jcol Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 423	resolution Thanks for the replies. Most of the reviews for this set were very positive and at this price point I'm not going to worry about it however this is the statement from the review that made me pause. They are not talking so much about the 720P but the panels native resolution. Here is a cut and paste from and otherwise very favorable review: "To some people, the difference between 1024 pixels and 1920 pixels on a plasma television doesn't seem like much of a difference. However, to others, the difference between true high definition and enhanced definition is a big deal. The images displayed on the LG 50PT350 are impressive, but they're not in true HD. If high definition is not a high priority on your list, this plasma TV might suit your needs." Again I was a little surprised that a review would state that the image displayed by this panel are ED and not HD, but it appears that there might be some debate on this point?

2012-04-23, 03:48 PM	#5
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,300	When HD was "defined" over a decade ago, 720P and 1080i were deemed as HD and 480P was ED. 480i is obviously SD. As 1080P came along, the snobbery that went along with owning such a TV meant that some reviewers and owners started calling this de-facto (or true) HD with anything less being "less than HD". As the race towards 4K and other technologies continues, 1080P will be snubbed by those new reviewers and owners I'm sure. Since your TV is 768 x 1024 it does have significantly fewer pixels than 1080 x 1920, however, as mentioned in previous posts, the viewing distance can have a dramatic impact on whether that is even noticeable and what matters is that you're happy. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2012-04-23, 04:22 PM	#6
Michael TLV Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 1,101	Greetings It's been a while since I had to look, but the HD 42/43" panels used the 1024x768 array. The 50" panels usually used the 1366x768 array so they were slightly better than the 1280x720 of the 720p format for HD. When the 1080p displays first came out, Sony started to use the slogan of Full HD .. applying it to 1080 P. ED sets are 852x480 for a pixel array. So better than DVD (720x480) ... but less than 720p ... The 1366x768 panel that your 50" likely is ... will throw out the extra data from a 1080p signal ... until it fits the 1366 array. For a 720p signal, it has to scale up the image to fit the 1366 array. As such, 1080p/1080i images will always look a bit crisper than 720 images. Set the cable box to 1080i would be better than 720 ... regards __________________ Michael @ TLVExperience ISF/THX Video Systems Instructor

2012-04-23, 04:29 PM	#7
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,300	Michael TLV The panel is 768 x 1024 as mentioned in post 4 and as indicated in the specs on the web. It is true that 1024 was typically limited to 42" plasmas, but this 50" is 1024, part of the reason for the price probably. Download pdf for specs: http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-50PT350-plasma-tv Click on Specs: http://www.lg.com/ca_en/tv-audio-vid...tv-50PT350.jsp As discussed in my "native" FAQ post 2, most TVs prefer 1080i signals over 720P which reinforces your statement. More on the topic below: On Upconversion FAQ: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=87543 If you're on Bell Sat/Fibe, then 720P may be a better output option for this TV since Bell send all the (HD) signals as 720P after converting at their end. This would eliminate one conversion step. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2012-04-23, 05:06 PM	#8
Michael TLV Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 1,101	Thanks ... We will only really know the resolution on that panel if you look at the pixel array on it. 1024x768 panels do not use square pixels ... they are rectangles. (1.33 aspect ratio if they are squares) 1366x768 panels use square pixels. (1.78 aspect ratio if they are squares) 720p bell ... that's what I hate about them. crappy for the 1080p tvs. Regards __________________ Michael @ TLVExperience ISF/THX Video Systems Instructor

2012-04-25, 10:31 AM	#9
jcol Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 423	Pixel shape and orientation It has rectangular pixels. They are oriented so that the longer sides of the pixel is pointing up/down. Picture is fine for the price point. Thanks.

2012-04-25, 11:55 AM	#10
Michael TLV Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 1,101	Greetings Well there you go ... Thanks (Although ... what is the shape of the RGB triplet? Not the individual R element or G element or B element. The RGB elements combine into what? a square or a rectangle? A pixel contains all three ... a subpixel contains only one color) __________________ Michael @ TLVExperience ISF/THX Video Systems Instructor

2012-04-28, 07:48 PM	#11
PPL4GOLF Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 904	There is no issue with rectangular pixel except when connecting to PC. The resolution has to be set to a non-native 16:9 resolution like 1369x768 and the text will not be as sharp though readable. The price differential these days are so little between 720p and 1080p. I would only consider 720p if I were not to connect a PC plus and also were to use it half the time to watch standard definition content. __________________ LG55LW5000/Denon3313/MirageOMD5+Nanosat+MM8/ClearStream2/CM7778+3414 SSGPN50A550/OptomaHD33/Onkyo717/KEF3005/Velo15"

2012-05-09, 08:36 PM	#13
sailmaker Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Burlington Ontario Posts: 546	*Costco LG 50" Plasma* Original poster jcol asked about the LG 50" at Costco. The store in Burlington only carries the 720p so I ordered off their internet site. Delivery was about 6 days including a weekend. I have started drinking heavily again after struggling to get the set down to the family room and onto the stand. It has taken a few days when time is available to get a DVR from Cogeco store front. We have had a 32" Sharp upstairs for over a year (calibrated by our very own 57). I did not know that whatever package(s) we already subscribe to is what I will have in the family room. Not a problem but I did go thru a few hoops before everything was up and running to my likeing. @jcol: The $50 discount sale is over but in my opinion this is the plasma to go for. I "had" to take the Motorola 6412 DVR but the Cogeco remote is the same for both TV's. Go for it but I suggest ordering on line for the 1080 full HD set. As a general interest to all, Cogeco now supports HDMI. In fact, contrary to the packing slip with the 6412 says a component cable set is enclosed plus some other items that are not really included and not needed. The mods will delete me if I continue with my review but yes, go for it.

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