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Bi-Amp Newbie Question

2K views 10 replies 3 participants last post by  darklord 
#1 ·
I have a Denon 2808, Paradigm 60 front, CC 450 Centre and Atoms for surround.

While I'm generally satisfied with the Denon 2808 driving a 5.1 setup, I long for some more airy feel and clarity from CD music.

Someone now offers me a set of 8 year old Arcam 9 and 9P Intergrated Amp/Power Amp combo, and I'm thinking if I should bi-amp the fronts with the Arcam combo or not.

Questions here are:

1. If I use the Arcam to bi amp the fronts, would I run into tonal matching problem as the Centre will still be driven by the Denon? And would I get much improvement listening to two channel stereo CD with the Arcam over the Denon?

2. Can I go cheap and only get the Arcam 9P power amp and use the Denon to drive the treble and the Arcam 9P to drive the bass?

I am itching to try out the Arcam as they are used so I won't lose too much getting rid of them later if things don't work out. But I just want to get some feedback on if this is a smart thing to try out.

Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
If you are to Bi-amp, I feel you should use the same amp to do so. You sure will benefit from this as (most AVR) the power that you do not used from your AVR for the fronts will then be splitted between the remainder of speakers hooked-up to your AVR. You will also have more power to the remainder of your speakers by using an external amp.
 
#4 ·
You should always biamp each speaker section with the same type of amp. IOW, you need 4 channels of Arcam amplification to do that for the front channels...will you have that? (Sorry, don't know Arcam models in detail...)

And generally speaking, you will benefit even without biamping the front channels if you drive them with a decent separate amp. I know the Denon 3808 is not up to what I expect in main/front amplification, so will guess you will appreciate a separate front amp with the 2808. All my "non-front" speakers are Paradigm, they do appreciate a good amp.

I was just thinking: the Paradigms are called 6Ω speakers. I wonder what the impedance of each section/driver is for biamping? I suspect it will be such that a separate amp is best used anyway.
 
#5 ·
And generally speaking, you will benefit even without biamping the front channels if you drive them with a decent separate amp. I know the Denon 3808 is not up to what I expect in main/front amplification, so will guess you will appreciate a separate front amp with the 2808. All my "non-front" speakers are Paradigm, they do appreciate a good amp.
I think I'll get the Arcam but $800 for a 8 year old combo seems steep to me.

Anyway, I have a question that when you use 2 or more amps, bi-amping or not, to drive different speakers in a 5.1 setup, how do you balance the volume of the different speakers? Do you need to adjust the volume on the 2 amps individually everytime when you change volume?

Thanks.
 
#6 ·
A good rule, set your "slave" amp(s) at about mid capacity an then forget about it-them as you will be controlling all outputs from your main amp volume control. What you will actually be doing is increase the "pre-amp out" of the main amp which in return will increase the "speaker output" of your "slave amp(s)". Depending of the receiver you own, if it has the mic calibration capability, it should adjust the pre-amp out according to what your calibration mic senses.

As far as price, I am not too sure how much you should pay but if I am correct, Arcam are well rated and not cheap. You can also look in the Item for sale forum as you will notice that there is an Anthem 5 channels available in roughly the same price range. I do not know where you are located but the poster/offerer is in the Toronto area.
 
#7 ·
I may be interpreting your query wrong, or at least differently from TECHNOKID ???

You can set the relative level balance among channels in your 5.1 setup menu. Once hooked up and levels balanced, you don't really have to do anything different except turn the new amps on.

Sorry, I see I glossed over the important part before that you want to buy BOTH the 9 and 9P. Thus you would have the 4 amp channels for biamping. The integrated has separate ins/outs so you can skip the preamp part (earlier models did not, I think). That's probably advisable/necessary if you want to use ALL these amplifiers to just drive your fronts biamped...though I can think of another less elegant way... The 9 and 9P amps are identical...perfect. Otherwise it could be tricky balancing them in biamp config. This will not be difficult to set up, just some Y-splitters and audio/speaker cabling. It seems the Arcam series 7-9 are commonly used for biamping, and the typical comment is results far exceed the amps sonic performance when used un-biamped.

As for price, it's hard to say. Considering the CDN$ at the time, I would not be surprised if the 9P and 9 cost over $2k total new in Canada based on their U.S. list prices. A quick check shows it's not uncommon for each of these items to go for $3-400 for mint in the UK, so $800 for both is not terrible...so offer based on condition and that tidbit.
 
#8 ·
This will not be difficult to set up, just some Y-splitters and audio/speaker cabling.
If I undestand what you are saying above, this is not bi-amping but ratter bi-wiring... 2 different things! Bi-amping will add power but not bi-wiring. The only advantage to bi-wiring is better separation of woofer and tweeter while bi-wiring is better isolation of woofer and tweeter and additional power since you are actually using 1 channel to drive woofer while another channel drives the tweeter.

I may be interpreting your query wrong, or at least differently from TECHNOKID ???
If and only if I understood what he met, he shouldn"t have used the word balance but ratter control as I think he wants to know how he should control the volume if he is using multiple amps. Am I right?
 
#9 · (Edited)
No, I meant biamping.

The Ys are so he could feed each of the new front amps the same L or R AVR pre out signals, one Y per amp to get the same L or R signal into each amp's L&R inputs. Well, most of my AVRs only have 1 pre out per channel, one has 2, but my good pre has *4* for each channel. The 3808 only has 1 pre out so I was guessing the 2808 has only 1 too. Extra audio cable to "extend" the Ys if necessary depending on new amp location, extra speaker cable since he needs 2 runs per speaker.

Actually, I don't know if the 9/9P has switches etc. so you can feed a single channel input signal to both channels, then you wouldn't need Ys. IMO the best arrangement is to put an amp beside each speaker...keeps speaker runs short. OTOH, if using cheaper speaker cable, keeping the audio cables short can be cheaper and is a good idea too. Lots of configs, you have to see how you can arrange the gear first.
 
#10 ·
Sorry, I know what you mean: 1 RCA pre-out "Y" from "L" front of main amp going to 2 different channels inputs of the external-slave amp in order to provide woofer front "L" from one channel while the other channel provides tweeter front "L" and then repeat the same procedure for the "R" speaker woofer and tweeter. Got YA!
 
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