Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

Antennas Direct OTA Antennas & Gear

361K views 890 replies 153 participants last post by  JJMoney 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
If you're already receiving HD then this is not going to be a cost-effective experiment. However if you're still interested, a good quality antenna would be a Blake or a Televes. The Televes is a bit cheaper.I picked up two Televes for $300. They have a local HDTV Info and reception section with a lot of knowledge in it. Good search function as well. If you're looking for a 6000 OTA module, I'll probably be selling one in the next couple weeks. The bloody things sell for almost as much on ebay as they are new. I think they might be getting hard to find new. On ebay you can expect to pay about $130-140 US. Jonic is selling them for BEV for about $310 Cdn. Which DirectTV box do you have. I believe most of them have a built in OTA tuner. If it's the Hughes, it does, and it seems to be a decent tuner.
 
#805 ·
Antennas Direct Giving Away C2-V for FREE

As part of a NAB sponsored tour to publicize "cutting the cord", on Sunday in Wash. D.C., Antennas Direct gave away 1000 FREE DTV Antennas...first come first serve.....and not just a cheap Antenna....but the C2-V Clearstream+VHF-Dipole:
http://www.wusa9.com/story/money/consumer/2014/11/23/antenna-direct-free-tv/19460965

It's a multi-city tour of up to 25 locations, with the next event 20Nov in Toledo and thus far confirmed events in the Spring at Indianapolis and Huntington, W.Va:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/washington/antenna-giveaway-comes-dc/135727

This is NOT the first time that Antennas Direct has given away FREE Antennas:
https://www.antennasdirect.com/07-0...-direct-free-antennas-to-aereo-customers.html
https://www.antennasdirect.com/11-20-13-affordable-television-act.html
https://www.antennasdirect.com/10-31-07-antennas-direct-donates-1000-hd-antennas.html
 
#807 ·
I was curious to pull up the TVFool report for Eastern Market area, having lived in the 'burbs outside of D.C. for a couple years and numerous visits since, so I know the area very well and have seen many report of people in the 'burbs having problems trying to receive stations coming from different directions.

Here's the TVFool Report for Eastern Market Zipcode....just South of The Mall between Air & Space Museum and The Capitol:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=d243ea36a2731d

With all local networks in the range of 57-72 NM(dB), this area should work just FINE with a simple Rabbit-Ear/Loop INDOOR Antenna (or equivalent)...and Ch7/9 are SO strong, they're gonna come into most any UHF ONLY Antenna as well.

So I'm puzzled as to why A-D was giving away the OUTDOOR C2-V when the D.C. stations are only 7 miles away to the North....and where, pray tell, are those mostly Apartment/Condo dwellers going to MOUNT it?????? Oh well, should be lots more of them available now on Fleabay....
 
#808 ·
I think they may also be working with some local TV stations promoting OTA TV in various areas also. I was able to obtain one myself...
Haven't tried it yet though.
I think it's in their best interest to promote in DC too.
 
#809 ·
I have recommended the C2 as an indoor antenna for years. All you need is some type of stand (a stand from an old floor fan works well).

It may be overkill in urban areas like DC, but for those with signals that are marginal with a typical indoor antenna, it can improve signal reliability.
 
#813 ·
They're essentially the same antenna, just different form factors. The C1 convertible can go outdoors, the Micron cannot. The Micron XG already includes an amplifier.

Both are UHF-only antennas, don't plan on VHF reception unless you're lucky. The ClearStream 1 Convertible's reflector screen can accommodate their VHF retrofit kit, if needed.
 
#814 ·
I can't speak for the MICRON XG, but my daughter lives in a basement apartment and
stuck a C1 convertible w/ VHF retrofit (yes, the retrofit attaches fine), inside, in a small
basement window. Lives in downtown Toronto, to my surprise, not only does it pull in all
the local Toronto stations, but 2 from Hamilton and 2 from Buffalo. I was impressed with
the performance of that little guy !
 
#815 ·
thanks for the replies.i like the fact that they are both great for indoor placement where space is limited.i have 2 amps im going to try with the C1(im going to grab one,thanks for making my mind up lol) a CM 3410 and an Antennacraft 10G201.im using the Antennacraft amp with a DB2e,but im going to try the C1 on a window sill in the same room.kinda tired of seeing the DB2e on the wall.hopefully the reception is going to be similar.thanks.
 
#816 ·
purchased the CI convertible the other day,was half the cost of the Micron XG.mounted it in the same spot as my DB2e.used my Antennacraft 10g201 amp.results were the same as with the DB2e.for such a smaller antenna,it packs quite a punch for its size.plus it looks better mounted where the DB2e was without being an eyesore.
 
#819 ·
As far as forward peak gain goes, the C1 is roughly equivalent to about half of a DB2e, the C2 is close to a DB2e, etc...
Agreed. The C2's gain is similar to the DB2e, but it does have a slightly lower gain as it has a wider beamwidth (which is why I said between 3 and 4dB).
 
#820 ·
i have been experimenting with both the C1 and the DB2e,using both amps previously mentioned.i find that the C1 likes the cm3410 better than the Antennacraft 10g201,and vice versa with the DB2e.both antennas were placed in the same location,and they were judged by reception results and signal strengths over a period of a week.weather up here has been inconsistent,so im taking that into consideration.im really impressed with the performance of the C1.quite the bang for such a small package.
 
#821 ·
The above comments are pretty much spot-on WRT the comparisons.

One thing to keep in mind is that the tapered loop models C1 & C2 have a virtually flat gain vs frequency curve and and very uniform ~70° BW across the UHF design band. The bowtie antennas don't have either of those attributes so there is sometimes an advantage, besides convenience of size, in selecting one style over the other.
 
#822 ·
C5 Antenna mounting / comparison

Good afternoon,

I recently purchased an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 antenna to attempt to receive either my local VHF 12 or VHF 13 stations, mounting the antenna in my garage attic. The Y5713 is working great to pick up VHF 12, but will only pick up 13 if I walk with it outside of the garage and at that point get around 80-85% signal quality with my HDHomerun4.

Rather than mount a Y5713 on the roof, I'm toying with getting a ClearStream C5 that I would mount on an old Dish Network J-mount on the side of the house. The angle might be a little tight from the current location of the J-mount, but I think it might be do-able. I realize I will likely need to replace the J-mount itself with a 40" version, but wanted to ask how the C5 compares in gain to the Y-5-7-13?

What is the distance between the two mounting brackets? I think I may have a slightly smaller than 40" J-mount hanging around in the basement.

Also, does someone make a modified J-mount that would stick out further from the house? From the specs, it looks like the width of the C5 is 29", so the max distance from the center of the pole would be 14.5", but I don't think I need quite that sharp of an angle off the side of the house, anyway.

Lastly, does the C5 ever go on sale? :)


Thanks!!
 
#824 ·
...but will only pick up 13 if I walk with it outside of the garage
So, you mount it outside and/or get a pre-amp for it.

but wanted to ask how the C5 compares in gain to the Y-5-7-13
You could find out for yourself but check here for the technical specs.
C5 --> https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/C5 technical data with uhf.pdf
Y5713 --> http://www.antennacraft.net/pdfs/Y5-7-13.pdf

Also, does someone make a modified J-mount that would stick out further from the house?
My opinion is that trying to save a penny here will cost you dollars during the install. Why not just get what the antenna manufacturer recommends?

Lastly, does the C5 ever go on sale? :)
You may see an open box item on their site or on Amazon or a used item on fleabay. Your mileage may vary.
 
#825 ·
VHF Retrofit Kit

Several places in this forum mention if you are installing both UHF and VHF antennas,

a) put the UHF antenna higher
b) separate them by at least 2 feet (maximum UHF wavelength)

But the VHF Retrofit Kit installation instructions seem to violate both of the above. What am I not understanding here? :confused:
 
#826 · (Edited)
What am I not understanding here?
Compromise for consumer convenience. Have you ever seen a standard combo antenna with that much separation between the sections? As for the VHF-1, you can always mount it separately, that's in the directions.

Mounting the UHF antenna is more of a convention than a requirement. Put them where they work.
 
#827 ·
Thanks ADTech. I'm guessing that the dipoles are small enough that the ill effects of having UHF and VHF antennas literally together are of little consequence? Less so than say, combining a C5 (with much more metal) with a UHF antenna immediately above it.

Some background - I have a C5 but when I mounted it below my DB4e, it's too low if I give it adequate spacing (that is, 2 feet as indicated in my previous post). I'm thinking I had a VHF retrofit kit, I could get the additional height I need while not material degrading my DB4e's UHF performance.

(A little off topic but might help you understand my situation - the C5 used to be on a 2nd mast about 25 feet away and it worked nicely because the 2nd mast was equivalent in height to the main mast, but I had to requisition the 2nd mast for a 2nd UHF antenna to pick up a couple of stations in the opposite direction. Relocating the C5 lower on the either mast didn't go well at all :( )
 
#828 ·
I modeled d510d180's version of the Tapered-Loop (presumably a Klone of the C2), adding a 10" H x 20" W Screen Grid Reflector (per C2 Sell Sheet dimensions) with Tapered-Loop to Reflector Separation chosen for "best" performance and then a run adding Hi-VHF Dipole with Length Optimized for best fit of SWR across Hi-VHF Band:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=2398785

I feared that the Reflector would have adverse effects on the nearby Dipole, but I found that there was only MINIMAL IMPACT of one Antenna on the other...primarily pushing the Hi-VHF Max Gain below the Horizon. So some locations, such as behind a nearby hill, may benefit from locating the Hi-VHF Dipole on the BOTTOM of the Antenna so it has a few tenths of a dB more Gain at Positive Elevation Look Angles.

PS: I'm looking for confirmation of ACTUAL C2-V Dimensions....I see that C2 Specs now say 20" L X 12" W, whereas original "Sell Sheet" said 20" L X 10" W, so there MAY be at least TWO versions?????
 
#829 ·
The new Juice pre-amp

Curious how the Juice is for people with a mix of strong, middling and weak signals? The literature says it's good at avoiding overloads.

My situation in Toronto sees a mix of strong Toronto & Buffalo signals, medium strength Buffalo/Hamilton signals (and 1 crazy T.O. signal) and some Buffalo/Rochester signals that are borderline to locking in. (I wouldn't call them tropo signals, just temperamental i.e. they'll be good for several days then act flaky, or disappear throughout the entire year.)

Would the Juice be good for situations 2 & 3 without making the strong signals overload my HDHomerun?
 
#830 · (Edited by Moderator)
dheian, looks like a re-branding of their discontinued CPA-19 antenna without the large plastic shroud. I use a CPA-19 and it works well. Helps beef up the signal from a couple of buffalo stations and doesn't seem to cause any overloading with the close stations coming from the CNTower.

There's someone selling a CPA-19 in Mississauga on Kijiji
 
#831 · (Edited)
Yes, the Juice is pretty much a re-done CPA19. We had to change manufacturers so we redid the name, the physical packaging (we kept the metal injection mold), the power supply and, internally, the filtering. The CPA19 had a filter that suppressed between 250 and 400+ MHZ, the Juice deleted that filter and replaced it with one that rolls in just above 700 MHz for 4G/cellular suppression. There was only enough circuit board real estate available for that one filter, so it's the only one in the Juice. FM filtering, if needed, can be done with one of our external full band filters.

Gain averages about +18 dB +/- ~1 dB across design band of 54-698 MHz.

Noise figure averages around 2.5 dB in low-VHF, ~1.75 in high VHF, and averages sub 3 dB on UHF. The gradual roll-in of the 4G filter slightly affects the top end of the UHF band. TANSTAAFL, as they say.

As far as IMD performance, it tests out to between +35 and +38 dBm TOI (Third Order Intercept), depending on the frequency at which it is tested. My personal observation is that this model is the most overload resistant amp that's come across my workbench so far.

For those who hate TOI results, I've tested a few other protocols. Frankly, testing this thing for overload is a PITA because my test gear doesn't readily produce hot enough signals and the dynamic range of the Rigol isn't all that wide. It is necessary to use attenuation on its input to keep the mixer input below -10 dBm so it doesn't introduce any IMD of its own which affects the ability to display weak and strong signals at the same. Depending on the RBW and attenuation settings, it's hard to achieve 70 dB of dynamic range. But, hey, it's a $2K piece of gear, several 10s of thousands of dollars.

A sampling of test results:
505 MHz with IP3 @ -46 dBc --- +61.9 dBmV (+13.1 dBm) fundamental output
505 MHz with IP3 @ -60 dBc --- + 7.7 dBm (TOI=37-38 dBm) fundamental output
DIN45004B 3-tone @~500 MHz --- 119.35 dBuV

Several notes: Samples from the same batch of amps will vary, sometimes by several dB. Also note that the Rigol's accuracy is somewhat limited in its precision (+/- 1 or 1.5dB IIRC). Far more accurate lab gear would reduce the results range for greater accuracy but that is outside my assigned charter. In general, the readings taken with the Rigol are very close to those obtained by our test lab engineer in his facility with his HP/Agilent gear.

P1dB test results usually ranged between +21 to just over +23 dBm depending on the individual sample and the test frequency.

I will be happy to try to answer any performance related questions that you might have.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top