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Rogers and Shaw Launching SHOMI streaming video

99K views 414 replies 95 participants last post by  Dr.Dave 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
#52 ·
I just wish the VOD section of our existing cable/IPTV/Satellite would keep more than a few episodes of a show for the current season. I was away working for most of the time the new episodes of 24 were on...then when I went to watch it on VOD they only had the last couple episodes.

Also...4K now? Get back to me when they make an affordable 4K Plasma or OLED.
 
#56 ·
So the cable companies are going to use the profits from their monopolies to create a competitor to Netflix....they will buy away content from Netflix in an attempt to weaken them and will try and force Canadians to buy a second subscription to see what they used to be able to see for one price.

Net negative impact to Canadians. We should boycott this.
 
#62 ·
I was thinking exactly the same thing when I first heard of this. I really hope that won't happen. But if the opportunity presents itself for them to do it you can't really put it past them looking at their track record.
 
#57 ·
I highly doubt Rogers and shaw could cause any problems for Netflix. If they do buy content away from netflix. It is just in canada. Nothing stopping us from watching netflix from another country that has the content not available in canada.

Wanting a boycott before we know anything about this is way too dramatic. IMHO.


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#58 ·
Yeah, I think that the worse possible move for Shaw/Rogers would be to not offer their service to everyone in Canada, over the Internet, irrespective of their subscriber status.

The big risk for cable companies in the future is that the younger generations use the Internet as their primary means of video consumption. Companies like Netflix are reaping the benefits. Creating shomi is completely unnecessary if the cable companies intent is to ignore this market. If I were a investor in Shaw/Rogers I'd hope that they would be thinking big with shomi. Not only going after Canadian customers, but expanding internationally too. It did wonders for Netflix stock holders.
 
#61 ·
That doesn't mean that the content for the two services won't overlap. For example, cable VOD offers a selection of movies and TV shows for a fixed rental price. SHOMI might offer much of the same content for a fixed monthly price. A lot of the cable VOD content is very similar what Netflix offers. There may even be some overlap.
 
#63 ·
All this is is a money grab & GB usage.

If this service takes off I'll bet you anything that the "unlimited usage" will end and you'll be forced to pay more.

Even if you go to a 'Indy Internet' provider you'll still be paying more as these 'indy' provides have to pay Rogers,Bell,Telus,etc to use their Telephone lines or cable coming into your house. These main providers will charge these indy providers more rent in which in turn they'll be forced to raise their prices to you.
 
#64 ·
I see no reason to expect that the price of bandwidth will go up over time. If it does, then the government should get involved. Ultimately, I think the best path forward would be for municipalities to manage the last-mile infrastructure - like plumbing and fiber - and then ISPs can compete at the switching station. This has worked very well for the citizens of municipalities who have made this move.

Traditional TV and Phone services would be gone - a phone company would be like Vonage in that they offer voice-over-IP, a "TV channel" would simply offer the video services over IP. It would be the job of the municipality to manage the network. Of course, the idea of a live always-broadcasting TV channel will seem silly in the future. Shows having a "time slot" seems like a silly anachronism to me, even today. Why does Big Bang Theory need to be "on at 8pm PST"?

I think anyone with a clue will recognize that this is the direction that things are going. The user experience from using Netflix is so much better than what old school TV provided, pretty much everyone is converted after using it for a month. People get to pick the show, the season and the episode that they want to see. They view the episode without advertising, they use whatever device they please from wherever they please. It also remembers where they left off automatically.

After experiencing the "new way", people won't have much patience for the "old way". In short, traditional TV's days are numbered - and they must know this at the BDU executive offices.

If they wait much longer, than being a BDU in 5 years will be like being a print publication today - a dying business.

Shaw and Rogers apparently know this. Yes, shomi is re packaging content they already have, but they're re packaging it in a way that customers actually want.
 
#65 ·
Interesting?

Now grant you I'm somewhat "Old School" not really into this MP3 & internet "TV watching" sort of thing,more of the "old school" of watching TV through cable/IPTV or sat.

I still think as others have mentioned More of "Younger Crowd" is watching via the internet, and as more 'youth' go that way the use of internet will sure pas that of watching tv on cable.IPTV/Sat and require more bandwidth usage.

Now this is only my guess/opion,Will it happen? Maybe yes Maybe No and prices for internet go up?I guess only time will tell.
 
#66 ·
The price for Internet service may go up, but I'm saying the price of bandwidth use will go down over time. It has gone down because with improved technology the same copper or fiber is able to transmit dramatically more bits per second. I don't see this trend reversing for the foreseeable future.

So, you may start paying more for Internet access, but you'll be getting more Internet access for the money.
 
#67 ·
Netflix vs. Traditional TV is not unlike Microsoft vs. IBM in the 80s.
Everyone knows what the future is and that it will take 5-10 times longer than the optimists expect.

It is very hard to compete with Netflix.
They are on par (almost) with HBO in revenue but 5 times less profitable
http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/net...bo-but-hbo-is-far-more-profitable-1201087683/

None from the traditional players are ready to play this razor margin game.
And I don't see how they can possibly marginalize Netflix, especially now when they have their own shows...

I think it is an attempt to get some mileage out of Netflix popularity.
Will probably be as effective as IBM doing OS/2 to compete with Windows...:)
 
#70 ·
This is a great example of just how well competition works.

Prior to Netflix being available in Canada, I was hoping that a Canadian media company was going to step up their game and offer something similar. Unfortunately, nothing materialized. In comes Netflix and makes these media companies uncomfortable. So now, 4 years or so later, Shaw and Rogers show up. In my opinion, it'll be interesting to see if they can leverage any part of the market but I think they are a little too late to the game.
 
#72 ·
bev fan said:
Not necessarily true, some providers have just increased the prices without increasing the download limits, they have just increased the speed a bit. To get unlimited bandwidth on teksavvy will costs additional $20
It's true, you're just nit-picking small, specific changes. I'm talking about the general trend. That trend won't be a straight line for all ISPs for all packages - you may get the odd saw-tooth reversal, but the general direction is undeniable.

Back in the early days of Shaw's internet service, the declared "bandwidth cap" was ~1GB a month in 1998 for $40/month, and the speed provided was less than 5mbps. They didn't really enforce the bandwidth caps back then, just as they haven't gotten around to doing their "bump up" program now - but whatever, we're comparing what is offered in the plan.

Checking the Bank of Canada's inflation calculator, $40/month in 1998 is about the same as $55/month in 2014.

In 2014 for ~$55/month ($30 for the first 6 months) Shaw offers 125GB/month of data (at 10mbps).

So, during that period (1998-2014) we've seen a 125x increase in the amount of data offered to the user at the given price.

4 years ago (in 2010) the Shaw high speed "Warp" package that offered 50mbps of speed and cost ~$107/month and provided 125GB of traffic (depending on when you looked). Now Shaw's BB50 (50mbps) package is ~$80/month and it offers 400GB/month of bandwidth.

From 2010-2014 the price dropped ~25% and the data volume allotted went up 320%.

Contrast this with cable TV services and you'll find you really are paying substantially more. I bet if we were to go look at cable TV packages from 1998 and 2010 we would see substantially worse deals today than what was available back then.

I think it's abundantly clear that cable TV is a bloated business, build around CRTC rules and legislation, increasing prices at a rate much higher than inflation, using old technology and slow to change.

The Netflix model is much more nimble, consumer friendly, and technology savvy. While cable companies are amoung the most hated companies in North American, the customer satisfaction rating for Netflix are pretty good.

Shomi is a good move on Shaw/Rogers part because:

1. It can go after all Canadians, not just Canadians who are in their local "service zone". Indeed, there is no real reason to restrict themselves to Canada. If they're smart they'll try and play in Netflix' league and go international. (Alternatively, they can think small and stay small. Whatever.)

2. It offers content at an attractive price, which is apparently something cable TV companies can no longer do. While it's clear that Netflix destroys what cable companies offer from a content-per-dollar viewpoint, Shomi may be competitive by this measure. To be determined.
 
#73 ·
Well, it is like saying Mercedes Benz went down in price from $200K to $180K, I could not afford it then and I can not afford it now. Same goes for Internet, I was not willing to shell out over hundred dollars for the Internet before and I am not willing to pay $80 now.

When it comes to tv service and using your ideology, you can say the same that in the last few years there were about 100 channels added and also taking inflation into consideration the prise of tv subscription has gone down.

Now, Shomi is a great idea as it will support canadian companies and tax will be collected to support our country's needs.
 
#74 ·
bev fan said:
Now, Shomi is a great idea as it will support canadian companies and tax will be collected to support our country's needs.
Netflix collects GST too, you know.

bev fan said:
When it comes to tv service and using your ideology you can say the same that in the last few years there were about 100 channels added and also taking inflation into consideration the prise of tv subscription has gone down.
I showed how for the same amount of money we're getting higher speeds and lower bandwidth caps. I compared today to a time ~5 years ago and a time ~15 years ago. I'm getting my data from the current Shaw website versus the old Shaw website. Knowing you, I should add you can only use list prices published on a BDU's website as a basis for comparison.

To make your case you'd need to show that for the same dollar amount (including inflation) we pay the same amount for the same number of channels, or that for the same amount of money we get more channels. You just waved your hand and said something about "more channels", but you failed to actually go get the prices.

Can you make that case?

Thought not.
 
#76 ·
That article is just being ridiculous.

bev fan said:
I do not have to make any case because everyone knows that all services increase in price no matter how you calculate it.
I see, so you're conceding the point because you can't defend it. Gotcha.

You can't say that "everyone knows that all services increase in price" and look intelligent because not all services always increase in price*, and there are plenty of examples of it. Internet prices are one. Going back even further, at one point when I ran a BBS in Calgary (early 90's) and was looking at getting a 24/7 14.4kbps SLIP or PPP Internet connection for the board, the prices were ~$1400/month for that service. Insanely expensive, forget inflation.

Another example is land line services. That's gone down in price. Renting a DVD or Blu-ray? I can get those for $1.50 or $2 respectively from Redbox where Blockbuster used to be ~$5+. Long distance prices have dropped substantially. In the 90's it used to cost ~$5/minute to call Japan. Now it's less than $0.03/minute.

The real irony here is that Shomi is a another perfect example of prices going down. If someone just subscribes to shomi instead of their cable TV service they're paying $9, not $90. Yet you still can't see it.

Without question, Netflix and Shomi will pressure the cable TV industry in the same way that Netflix and Redbox pressured Blockbuster/Rogers Video.

* As always, price changes need to be measured against inflation to see if the price is really going up or down. Most prices stay in-line with inflation, but just as many prices decrease in respect to inflation than increase in respect to inflation.
 
#77 ·
So, if the article proves that you are wrong, you say it is ridiculous. I have had Netflix for a few years now, and it does not say anywhere on my bill that taxes are being applied.

Shomi is not here to replace cable but rather an addition to cable service.
Same like Netflix, a lot of people like myself keep both tv service and Netflix.
 
#79 ·
I have had Netflix for a few years now, and it does not say anywhere on my bill that taxes are being applied.
According to The Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF):

A study last year [2013] showed that 21 per cent of Canadian households subscribe to Netflix, the popular U.S. online service that allows unlimited viewing of its library of movies and TV shows, for $8.99 a month. Canadians can also download a wide variety of digital entertainment from U.S. services such as Apple’s iTunes, or Amazon.com, without GST or HST. But if Canadians download the same movies, music or TV shows from a Canadian provider, they pay the full GST or HST on the purchase.
CTF Calls on Harper Government to Scrap GST and HST on Digital Download Entertainment

Since Netflix is a foreign company, and its servers aren’t located in Canada, it has no physical presence in Canada it doesn’t need to charge HST, GST or PST.
If you are billed the Netflix service through an iTunes (Canada) account, apparently HST is added in Ontario, but I cannot confirm this with personal experience.

****************************

How Netflix Inc is forcing Canadian cable companies to up their game

Already Netflix is causing serious concern among Canadian cable companies and broadcasters, disrupting their business models and forcing players to up their game.

Last week, Rogers Communications Inc. and Shaw Communications Inc. unveiled a new streaming video service called Shomi, a joint venture that analysts are calling a shot across the bow of Netflix.
Last year I reduced my Rogers cable TV service to Digital Lite ($14.99/month) and I plan to signup with Netflix this fall. I may give the Shomi service a tryout as well, for certain if there is a free trial period. :)
 
#78 ·
bev fan said:
So, if the article proves that you are wrong, you say it is ridiculous.
No, I'm just saying that article was referring to Canadian Content providers who were basically saying "if anyone makes videos content that Canadians watch, they need to give us some money" and I'm saying that's ridiculous for many, many reasons that is beyond the scope of this thread.
 
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