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Why is there so little HD hockey on TV?

7K views 49 replies 26 participants last post by  james99 
#1 ·
I'm always hearing the same question lately, 'why is there such limited HD hockey available on TV'? So what I'm wondering is if someone can take the time to explain why we only get 1 game or so a month in HD per team.

Why does CBC only show toronto games in HD, or why does sportsnet never show anything in HD? If at least ppv games were all available in HD, I for one would spend $10-20 per game if they were in HD instead of the standard def, so why are they still showing them in regular 4:3 format, with even more pixelation and macro blocking it seems than other digital channels.

Furthermore, how come channels in the states are showing HD canucks games while we're still watching them here in 480i?? Last question, do the cameras stay the same per stadium? when I'm watching an HD game on TSN, is it TSN that is using their own personal equipment to broadcast that game, or are those the same cameras setup there all the time?
 
#2 ·
I totally disagree. I think there is a TON of HD hockey on television.

The fact is that only about 5% of Canadians have HD and subscribe to HD programming. If you were in business, would you invest your capital and programming budgets to service 5% of your audience? A new HD camera can cost several hundreds of thousands of dollars not to mention all the additional equipment etc. Broadcasting in HD is NOT just flipping a switch!

If at least ppv games were all available in HD, I for one would spend $10-20 per game if they were in HD instead of the standard def,
And you probably make up about .0001% of the population so to cover the additional cost, you'd have to pay a lot more.


The amount of sports programming in HD continues to increase every year. Two or three years ago, you would have been salivating over the amout of HD on today. The broadcasters aren't currently losing gobs of money on HD. I would give them some credit for forking out the dough now when it really doesn't benefit them.


I would argue that Canada, in some ways, leads the world in HD programming, and in terms of the rest of the globe (outside of North America), we are way ahead of Europe, Britain, Australia.
 
#3 ·
I would disagree with you too...everytime I flip the channel to a Hockey game, it's in HD...I think every Leaf game on Saturday is in HD.

I'm more of a Raptors fan myself...and us Canadian NBA fans REALLY get the short end of the stick when it comes to HD. The Raptors have played 34 games this year, and I think that only about 5 of them have been HD.
 
#5 ·
One valid point is what the heck has happened to Sportsnet? Nothing is ever in HD anymore.

TSN shows all Raptors games in HD, and 80% of hockey in HD.. SN has 0 raptor games in HD, and no HD hockey. They could show the OHL games in HD but they choose not to do that..
 
#6 ·
They could show the OHL games in HD but they choose not to do that..
They did their CHL game of the week in HD a couple of years ago, but since then, they seem to have decided the only HD worth doing is baseball. We're not going to see NHL games in HD on Sportsnet as their rights are assigned to their regional stations and their HD license is national. At some point, though, they'll have to come to grips with converting their regional entities to HD as well; if Fox Sports can do it in America, why can't Sportsnet do it here?

Meanwhile, TSN has stepped up bigtime, especially in hockey. Their HD broadcasts of the World Juniors from Sweden were outstanding and last Wednesday we even got a hockey quadruple header in HD (two WJC semifinals and two NHL games).

I've got to agree with the OP on the PPV games though; as long as they're still in crappy SD I won't be buying.

The fact is that only about 5% of Canadians have HD and subscribe to HD programming. If you were in business, would you invest your capital and programming budgets to service 5% of your audience?
Yeah, but I think that is changing very quickly. In the past month alone, the number of HD-enabled viewers in my circle of friends, acquaintances and colleages has increased six-fold. Virtually every tv being sold now is HD-capable and consumers are eager to fill those newly-acquired widescreens with sharp, vivid programming. Any broadcaster that is looking at that growing bubble and not factoring HD upgrades into their equipment acquisition/update cycles is shortsighted and doomed to the viewing backwater (hello CanWest Global?). This includes the NHL teams with PPV, as more and more bars, the bread and butter for those broadcasts, become HD capable.
 
#7 ·
I did say "I would give them some credit for forking out the dough now when it really doesn't benefit them."

The point is that HD costs big bucks! People complain when their cable bills go up but want the cable and broadcast companies to spend more. You can't have it both ways.

I think that many broadcasters (CBC and TSN) have been doing a good job in addressing the needs of a very small (albeit growing) number of Canadians.
 
#33 ·
I have wondered this as well.

As many of us know, the reason why RSN doesn't show HD games is that Canucks/Flames/Oilers games are regional, and the HD channel is national; and that RSN has only paid for the local rights to the game.

But is there anything stopping them from blacking out the rest of the country, and showing HD to the rest of us? I could see that especially being handy when two teams are involved; like a Flames- Canucks game.

Does anybody know for sure?
 
#9 ·
The only thing that bugs me is when there is a HD feed available for a game no Canadian broadcaster has the rights to and it doesn't appear on NHL Center ICE, even though i know it exists. Also ottawa doesnt get leafstv HD on NHLCI only Leafs TV, also frustrating. I sent an email to rogers but no answer yet.
 
#11 ·
If you would care to look, you would notice that usually over 1/2 the games on tv are available in HD in the usa.

Please Consult http://www.hdsportsguide.com/nhl.php

Tomorrow night for example there are 6 games in HD in the usa out of 11 games total, not bad.

The problem lies with the provider, or at least NHL Center ICE itself.

How many of these games will we see in canada thats the problem. Sports net is showing 2 games that night, but only one of the HD games, bringing the possible total to 5. Checking the rogers schedule is a waste of time, it shows no games, so i checked the guide and out of 5 possible HD games from a country that as you say doesnt care about hockey. We get 1 (Tampa / Pittsburgh) fed into a country that does. With bell you get 2 of the 5.
 
#12 ·
I know that broadcasting HD takes more than the flip of a switch. I understand that there is a substantial cost to get everything converted over. However I still would like to know about the actual cameras being used at the games. It looks as though every game is capable of being broadcasted somewhere in HD. So are all the stadiums currently recording with HD cameras? If thats the case, then why no HD games on a network such as sportsnet that is technically capable of broadcasting an HD program?

I have to admit that TSN is doing a great job right now in showing HD programs. But can someone please explain why a network such as CBC will not move their one HD truck to other cities so we can see something other than the maple leafs?? If CBC can't afford the gas to vancouver, hell I'll pitch in!!

Also, how do we really know that I'm only part of a 0.001% percent group that would pay more for PPV hockey in HD? The market is there, people own HDTV's now. Maybe its the incentive such as more programming that will start the ball rolling and people will buy more HD sets, order the HD packages at a higher cost, etc...
 
#14 · (Edited)
I have to admit that TSN is doing a great job right now in showing HD programs.
Tino,
I think you're not getting much of a response because this has been discussed ad nauseum in these forums, and has led to some extremely acrimonious and often rude commentary. You're starting on that path again with the "can't afford the gas" remark.

1. When Sportsnet has regional rights to a NHL team, they can't normally show it on the "National HD" network. I'm not sure, but I don't think Sportsnet has any national rights for NHL, so no HD even if the game is technically available.

2. There are at the moment 4 full size HD trucks in Canada - 3 with Dome Productions and 1 with CBC (with a second CBC anticipated to be ready for the playoffs). Each one is a ~50 foot trailer with 10-12 cameras. Someone in the industry posted that it takes almost a day (~20 hours) to tear down and set up a truck at a new location, plus whatever time is actually needed for travel.

3. TSN and CBC are able to do a good job for CFL because they have National rights, there are only 4 games/week to cover and they have 3 trucks available between them most of the time. One of the Dome trucks spent most of the summer shuffling back and forth around the West. For hockey when you take geography and travel time into account, and consider the number of games, I believe they're doing the best they can to manage limited resources and show the most games possible.

Some day there'll be an HD truck based in every city (like they have SD trucks now) and the logistics won't be such a limiting factor.
 
#15 ·
Also, how do we really know that I'm only part of a 0.001% percent group that would pay more for PPV hockey in HD?
Don't twist my words. I never said that only .001% was the actual number only that the percentage was small.

The truth is you'd need a huge percentage of HD owners who watch HD hockey on a given night to pay for the PPV to make it economical. This might be reasonable for a big event like a one-time boxing match or WWF but not for just another hockey game which most folks are content to watch on SD if its free!

My point is that most consumers balk at paying anything extra for HD (witness the huge number of threads from HD owners who refuse to pay extra for HD channels) let alone for HD PPV.

Broadcasters are capitalist. If they smelled a good return on HD PPV hockey or HD hockey they'd be investing money in it faster than you can say "dot com craze!"
 
#17 ·
You can't read can you? I said "you probably make up about .0001% of the population" therefore "I never said that only .001% was the actual number".

If you actually read my posts rather than being facile you would understand the point I was trying to make, which was, the number of people willing to pay for HD PPV is minute. The actually percentage is unknown but it is below the threshold of viability or else we would be having more HD PPV being broadcast.

But then again, I guess you didn't read my posts.
 
#26 ·
Speak for yourself...

You first posted an exaggerated number to validate your viewpoint. Yet, when someone--possibly even by simple typo--makes your exaggeration *less* extreme, you accuse them of twisting your words.

Then, when I post, without accusation and complete with smiley, the insults continue. Sorry Hugh, but you're digging a bigger hole here.

Relax. If you'd rather throw insults than admit you over-exaggerated on the percentage, fine. If you choose to ignore the smiley, fine. If bullying someone that dares indicate less than complete agreement makes you feel better, fine. Whatever spurs discussion I suppose.

Nice example of appropriate forum conduct for the rest of us, btw. Who knew a one word, two smiley post could have generated such venom.
 
#18 ·
HD sports broadcasting is directly related to its availability in the United States and hockey is not very high on the list. Football, basketball, baseball, car racing and golf are in demand and readily available on both a local and national level. At this point Canadian providers are doing a great job in providing HD sports considering that it has only been around for a short time (HD Broadcasting) I do not think that sports broacasting is the bread and butter for the networks... with the exception of a few major events......it is the block of programing that goes in prime time and lately daytime programing such as the Y&R, the View and soon Oprah and Ellen:cool: . Look how long it took colour television to catch on eventhough NBC spent millions to broadcast prime time in colour while CBS and ABC had only a few hours per week. It takes time and patience for those of you who still exist in the" right now instant gratification world".;)
 
#20 ·
HD for the NHL overall might have decent coverage, but if you're a fan of a Canadian team other than the Leafs then you don't get many HD games at all. :(

I believe the Oilers, Canucks and Flames will each be shown 3-5 times this season in HD. :(

Granted it's gotten a little bit better from last season so CBC and TSN get points for that, but I don't see any major changes until the NHL rights sold again in 2008.
 
#21 ·
8 HD games for Calgary (see my signature)

Lindsay649, someone earlier had already posted that more than half the NHL games in the U.S. are available on HD on their local sports networks, so it has nothing to do with source availability.
So, as usual, can we just blame the CRTC? Can we just say its their fault we're not allowed to have the regional FSN's, Versus, etc??
Or is it TSN/NHL for their national monopoly?
Or Sportsnet for not providing 4 separate HD regional feeds?
 
#22 ·
whoa, first take a step back. Because one night had half the games locally in HD doesn't mean that is true for the whole season.

Out of those six games, how many were available in your city in SD, let alone HD? Broadcasters would have to buy the rights to air those games in Canada and the question becomes who is going to pay for them all and air them?
 
#23 ·
Hugh,

With center ice i dont think they have to buy the rights? thats whole point, providing out of market games.

Example:

When a game is on leafs tv, rogers provides leafstv to the rest of its subscriber base out side of the maple leafs region on a NHLCI channel, but does not do the same for the HD Leafs TV channel, why?

I should add that tonight 1/4 is available in HD, and Thursday night 7 of the 11 games are available in HD.
 
#35 ·
I have center ice on both directv under my chicago home and expressvu under my calgary home. If i count hdnet I get an average of 3-4 games a week on directv. Theres a lot more games under expressvu. Even with both combined I only have access to around 10 calgary games a year in hd.
 
#25 ·
Looks like approximately 45% of regular season NHL games are available in HD on a North American channel. Unfortunately, if you combine NHL Centre Ice HD, TSN HD, Sportsnet HD, CBC HD & NBC HD, you will propably only manage to get half of them (if that). Looks like a similar situation if you live in the US as the US NHL Centre Ice has NO HD games at all. I'm betting this will probably change for the 2007-2008 Season as DirecTV is launching 2 new HD sats this summer and promised 100 HD National channels. Adding 10 HD NHL Centre Ice channels will get them closer to there inflated goal. This can't happen on BEV until new sats and/or MPEG4. BEV will however no doubt get RDS HD which should add 40 or so Montreal Canadians HD games next year.

In comparison, 75% of NFL regular season games are available in HD and, with NFL Ticket HD, TSN HD & NBC HD you get all of them (if you are is the US, substitute TSN with ESPN & NFL Network and you get the same result). The only reason it's been at 75% for the past 2 years is CBS is dragging there feet but that will change in 2007:

"CBS will remain at 3 NFL games in HD per week in 2006, while rebuilding its HD infrastructure at its Broadcast Center in NY. At the same time they will be working on other HD projects as well, then begin ramping up NFL in 2007 by at least one game each Sunday each year until all are in HD in 2009, which the NFL contract calls for"

This is where the NHL needs to improve: They must mandate for there games to be in HD in there contract (at least give a guideline/deadline).
 
#28 ·
It's well documented that Leafs HD games far outnumber HD games of other Canadian teams. Well, even the Leafs HD schedule comes up short in comparison to the Bruins. Every game carried by NESN is HD. That's over 70. A few others are on NBC and HDNet. Every Bruin game could be in HD this season. Wow.

Is NESN in Boston area only? Or do US satellite/cable providers carry it in other regions as well? Just wondering about their available audience, and how that compares to Canadian markets. In particular, markets outside of Toronto.

To be clear, I'm not complaining that TSN and Sportsnet do not currently match the HD broadcasts of NESN. The Bruins may well have the best HD hockey coverage in all the NHL. And NESN doesn't have to deal with the CRTC. Nor do they have to deal with the NHL over regional vs. national rights.

However, it does give something for Sportsnet and TSN to shoot for. Obviously a major hurdle is "regional" games on their respective national HD feeds...once they figure out how to split that up for select broadcasts...
 
#29 ·
NESN is a REGIONAL network for all of New England except for that part of Connecticut that is considered Metro NYC. They can only own regional rights of the area major league teams. Yes, they do have to deal with NHL and MLB regional rights.... regional Bruins or Red Sox games cannot be telecast in another team's territory, hence why SW Connecticut doesn't get NESN, but the New York sports networks (e.g. YES) instead. (note: Rogers Sportsnet picks up their Red Sox telecasts to broadcast in Canada as part of a "national" contract with MLB, similar to the overall ESPN contract in the U.S., so this does not violate Blue Jays "territorial" rights).

DirecTV may pick up NESN, but they have to black out major league game broadcasts for anyone outside of the NESN territory. Same with any other regional Fox Sports Net or other regional sports network that they carry, blacked out live major league sports' regional telecasts unless you're in the team's territory.

They can show college or minor sports nationally if there is no national contract that they are violating (i.e. someone else owns exclusive rights outside of the regional territory)
 
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