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Global (Toronto) Now Testing Digital OTA Channel 41.1

43K views 220 replies 61 participants last post by  stampeder 
#1 ·
CIII-DT Global-HD Toronto is on-air

65-1

The content - the clock is accurate & nice colors LOL!!
 
#56 ·
I am wondering if Global isnt broadcasting toward Buffalo?

I checked my signals, my antenna it pointing to Toronto.

CBLFT-D is 80%
CBLT-DT is 100%
CFTO-HD is 80%
CKXT-2 is 100%

Heck I am even pulling WGRZ-HD @ 90% from Buffalo whilst pointing to Toronto.

Maybe their signal is not transmitting this way or it is so low it cant reach this way.
I am 60 miles from Grand Island and 60 miles from Toronto

I have done a manual scan several times and cant pick up Global
 
#57 ·
It is hard to tell. It could be that their broadcast height isn't as high as the others, or that they are not using full power. Heck, it is even possible that the signal is directional, because at some point they will be required to turn the Paris tower into a -DT and thus maybe the contour is focused more to the North and East.
 
#60 ·
I actually got a REAL response by someone at CIII

OMG, I can not belive it. I actually got someone at Global to e-mail me back, after I fired off a message a few hours ago in regards to CIII-DT going live. Looks as if we now have a date for the offical launch of programming on CIII-DT.

I believe April 18 we will be providing programming.., we are required by CRTC to air a signal with an identifier for two weeks before airing normal programming.. I think we are currently airing B&T with CIII HD Tor 65 .
Personally, I don't remember any other station (CITS being the latest example) of an identifer being shown, but this appears to be good news!

I am going to fire off a message in response to find out about EPG info being provided, PSIP remapping and the contour of the station. Anyone have anything else I should ask?
 
#66 ·
I am going to fire off a message in response to find out about EPG info being provided, PSIP remapping and the contour of the station. Anyone have anything else I should ask?
Hi alebowgm,
Nice work. You sure seem to have a great knack for developing contacts at stations in southern Ontario!
If you wouldn’t mind asking some details about their transmitter:
  1. Are they sharing a transmitter with any other stations (i.e. two stations off the air in an emergency),
  2. Height Above Average Terrain (i.e is it as listed in the IC database)
  3. Current Power level, and is this their full power output - Is what we see, going to be what we get?
  4. What is their intended native output: 720P or 1080i, or will it vary depending on programming.
  5. Do they intend to transmit DD 5.1 audio, or will that be programming specific as well?
I’m sure I'm not the only one wondering these things.

Cheers.
 
#61 ·
Some posts deleted

That's great alebowgm, it seems like Global is taking a new approach to its viewers and interested parties.

This part of my post is not about you, alebowgm ;) : I have a great deal of respect for many of the technical people from Global I've met or talked with over the years, and I ask that we give them credit where/when credit is due.

In line with the Rules of the Forum, I've deleted several posts that seem to be more conspiracy theories and insults towards Global personnel than sensible commentary. Thank you to the people who responded with factual and helpful commentary.

For gosh sakes people, they are in day 2 or 3 of their testing so of course there will be issues to deal with. Tandberg is doing the work for them and I cannot think of a company with higher esteem in the business of ATSC cutovers (with apologies to Snell & Wilcox).

Enjoy Global's digital OTA efforts. :)
 
#62 ·
Hey stampeder,

Ya, it isn't that I am anti-Global TV (although I do to an extent believe the conspiracy theories of the OMNI stations, but that is neither here nor there), it is just the fact that I actualy got a response from someone over at CIII which amazes me, aside from the automated response.

I just fired off an e-mail asking about what I said I would, so I am actually hopefuly I may get a decent response back to find out more about what is going (including this remapping issue)
 
#68 ·
Now I'm getting that channel remapping to 2-1 from the Global signal after I had to re-scan with the WNED remapping to 17. It's messing up NBC Buffalo on my tuner now (probably because it's the weaker signal) and putting it at 33-1. Incidentally, when I re-scanned for channels this morning I'm suddenly pulling in all of the Rochester stations with good strength today. I guess this is the fair weather reception I heard about. It won't last long since I have some decidious trees in the LOS of Rochester.
 
#69 ·
Global at my home in Markham I get 94% on a Toshiba dlp, but at my office on a older 1st or 2nd atsc tuner no reception ? My office location I'm in a dip(lowest elevation on the street)

Think I have to try a 4228 instead of a 4221. :)

Noticed on my bedroom tv after a rescan PBS is now at 17-1, 17-2, & 17-3. Will scan the other tv tonight and see.
 
#71 ·
See-Through Bug, Please

The other item maybe worth telling Global is to use translucent logo...they get a good company to air them up and I'm sure it won't be overlooked.

I get good 41-0 but their logo is big and causes IR on my LG plasma, so I don't tune much to 41-0. Actually the test pattern is pretty bad for IR as well :p
 
#72 ·
ciii-dt psip "blocking" wgrz-dt

My Sanyo Vizon TV doesnt handle duplicate psip very well. (and by not very well, I mean not at all)

Anyone else have a Sanyo TV ?

I did a rescan yesterday due to WNED remapping, and lo and behold CIII is on the air. my initial happiness at that quickly faded however - Unfortunately it wipes out WGRZ on my TV. The TV just takes the last channel scanned and maps it. so the TV picks up ch65 toward the end of its scan and maps to 2.1, *overwriting* - not appending - the ch33 it scanned ealier. I cannot even enter the ch33 manually, the TV is totally dependent on psip. - lousy design I know, but still, I really want global to fix this.

My "workaround" crude as it is - was to do a scan and when it gets to City I pull the antenna. Course this means I lose CKXT. the scan is too fast for me to skip CIII and plug antenna back in as CIII and CKXT are on adjacent channels.

If anyone has any else has the Sanyo LCD TV (32647) or any suggestions please let me know. I should probably contact sanyo, see if there's a firmware update or something, but I dont relish spending hours on the phone.

My old Samsung T151 and my Panasonic atsc equiped DVD recorder both handle it fine - comes in as 65-2 on the panasonic, and an extra 2-1 is listed on the old samsung.

I wrote a quick note to globals viewerreply address, but I dont know if it'll reach the right people or not, and even if it does, they'll probably think I'm just another goof who doesnt read the TV setup manual :-| - if they're right, please tell me, I've tried full scans, rescans, factory reset, pulling the power - and yes, even reading the manual!!, and no luck. My conclusion is that the TV firmware/software is flawed in that it cant handle errornous PSIP.
 
#76 ·
Anyone else have a Sanyo TV ?
I have a sanyo TV, same problem.

But I use the tuner in my EVu 9242 so i can record. It can't handle duplicate remaps.

I'd be upset if i were WGRZ. I'd be all over global and industry canada and anybody who could shut down global for stepping all over a perfectly good channel with a test pattern just because they don't know how to push the right buttons.

Shut it off till you figure out how to work the dam thing. Go read a manual.
 
#74 ·
Just got a VERY quick reply (about 5-10 minutes) in regards to the remapping of 65.1 to 2.1

Here is what I got

alebowgm said:
That is great information there. If there is a contour map, it would be awsome! The one thing I am not sure about is #2. I was not talking about the station reverting to channel 41 with the analog shutdown but rather the PSIP re-mapping. Right now if I type in channel 65.1 on my reciever, it remaps the station to 2.1 becuase that is what it is setup to do on your side. However, I can NEVER remember CIII being on channel 2 (where as WGRZ has their analog signal on 2, so it makes sense for them to remap the station there). Thus, one would think that CIII would instead either turn PSIP off and when we tune into channel 65 it would be the station we see Global on or it would virtually remap to channel 41 for the time being.
GLOBAL TV said:
I agree with what you are suggesting.... I will check with our Master Control Centre .. The decision was not made here ...
Looks as if 2.1 wont last long more than likely...
 
#78 ·
LOL Tom.F.1 - I agree with everything in your post.
My Sony with built-in tuner puts Global at 65.2
My other TV using a 9200 killed of WGRZ. I was able to delete Global, re-scan the 9200 and get WGRZ back in. I have a little Sharp TV w/tuner in the kitchen I have not fooled with yet for fear of getting my wife jacked-up.:eek:
I think the strength showing on the 9200 was around the mid 60's.
I need a slight re-aim of my 4228 to get my s/nr up for Global. I need min 16 and it had a range of 15-18 depending on time of day.

So what power will they be broadcasting at - 1, 5?
 
#79 ·
Reminder about Post #61

I put up a nice cedar fence with my son last year and the neighbour whose yard it abutted kept peering out his window with a scowl on his face but wouldn't come out to help. I found out a few days later that he had been telling other neighbours about what a lousy job he thought we did (it was perfect, btw) so there you go... someone who could have gone directly to us but called us down instead.

Part of Global's installation process involves getting everything right. Getting irritated at them as Tom.F.1 did is understandable, so I don't have a problem with people talking about that, but I strongly advise that contacting them with your concerns is very important. If IC and FCC rules are being bent or broken, and if WGRZ-DT is being negatively affected, contact all of them.

Calling them names here in this thread is not helpful. I've removed some of that namecalling from this thread.
 
#80 ·
A e-mail should be fired off to WGRZ-DT, and have it C.C. to the FCC & Industry Canada. You can locate their e-mail addresses on the net. And if you can't, at the very least, let WGRZ-DT know what is going on. They themselves might get in contact with the FCC, Industry Canada, and even CIII-DT to get this matter correct.

This is why I personally hate the re-mapping idea.
 
#81 ·
CIII-DT psip

Well,

for my part I did contact global yesterday, at least I think I did.
I've sent them a polite, courtious email message explaining the 2-1 PSIP situation, and that it's preveniting my TV set from recieving WGRZ, however I've not yet recieved a response. I would urge anyone else having similar problems to email them too.

I've not emailed or called any other parties just yet. - I'm thinking along the same lines as stampeders fence analogy - I want to give them time to respond, and time to fix it, I'm certainly not a broadcast engineer, and I have a lot of respect for these guys and the work they do - ultimately, once this is set up correctly as I'm sure it will be in time, I stand to benefit from another HDTV channel, hopefully for many years if the analog channel is anything to go by.
 
#82 ·
Sorry, but complaining to the CRTC, FCC, WGRZ-DT, and CIII-DT is not going to accomplish anything:

  • WGRZ is not licenced to broadcast into Canada. The fact that we get any spillage is gravy for us.
  • CIII-DT is not broadcasting into the US (especially at 3 KW).
  • The fact that they are both remapping to 2.1 is irrelevant; they are both broadcasting as licenced on their designated frequencies.
Unfortunate as it is, we just have to hope that CIII-DT corrects the situation on their own. They are aware of it.

cheers
 
#85 ·
  • WGRZ is not licenced to broadcast into Canada. The fact that we get any spillage is gravy for us.


    cheers

  • WGRZ following the FCC guidelines set by the Letter of Understanding (LOU) for Digital TV in the US Canadian border zone... makes them licensed to broadcast into Canada.
    http://www.h-e.com/pdfs/de_TVbcst00.pdf

    Technically speaking Global has a misconfigured transmitter and is using the wrong virtual channel... 2.1 that’s not assigned to them and they are now causing interference to another licensed broadcast within the border zone because of this. They are in violation of the LOU and should take action to correct this situation.
 
#83 ·
CIII-DT psip

But, just as WGRZ signal spills into Ontario, and is recievable with a reasonably high gain antenna - so too could Globals signal spill into the Buffalo area, and cause the same problems particularly for people with a decent antenna, and especially in DX conditions such as we had just last night. I find it hard to believe that WGRZ wont be concerned about that. maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

In the case of Sanyo TVs, it isnt just a matter of a duplicate label - its actually preventing me from tuning to ch33. sure, thats really a flaw on the TV itself, surely it should handle such duplicates more elegantly. - maybe Sanyo should be updating the firmware. What are the odds of getting that done anytime soon :)

Last night I was watching Rochester channels which are fairly low powered and directional, but still, once in while they come in.
 
#84 ·
I think 99gecko has a point, in fact maybe we should all 'keep quiet' about our ability to receive US stations. The worst thing that could happen is that Canadian broadcasters successfully lobby FCC to slightly lower power of all Buffalo stations thus 'fixing' all current or future conflicts. I think there would be a lot of happy campers in the Canadian broadcasting business if GTA viewers lost the Buffalo signals.
 
#87 ·
That is an excellent question about the re-mapping. As I understood the situation, the station could re-map in order to associate with their old analog channel during the period of transition. CIII-DT cannot re-map to 2.1 because it's analog channel is not on Channel 2.

If each broadcaster decides to re-map onto whatever channel, wouldn't that be equal to transmitting on a non-assigned frequency. Because at the end of the day, it blocks somebody elses channel from reaching the viewer.

CIII-DT needs to fix this problem ASAP, before it's gets further out of hand. This is not a free for all.
 
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