Dish Network being sued by broadcasters - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

hamstercaster · 2012-05-25, 01:47 PM

Dish Network is being sued by broadcasters over ad-skipping technology. Could it potentially impact Canadians?

http://techland.time.com/2012/05/25/...=Google+Reader

AFF · 2012-05-25, 02:44 PM

It is because of the new Hopper. It autoskips the ads. There is nothing like this in Canada so I don`t see how it would impact Us.

timlocke · 2012-05-25, 03:04 PM

I would gladly pay my cable provider for this feature in the stb/pvr.

A discussion with many comments is on Ars Technica.

faston · 2012-05-25, 04:26 PM

Back when Tivo was making it's original debut, around 1999-2000, there was a competitor named 'Replay TV'. They were neck and neck with many people preferring Replay to Tivo. It doesn't exist now because it had this same feature (automatically skipping commercials) and AFAIK was sued out of existence.

majortom · 2012-05-25, 05:38 PM

a few types of commercials I think should be sued out of existence.

1.) drug commercials
2.) lawyer commercials
3.) political commercials
4.) infomercials

If not for them, I'd be all good with watching honest advertising in between breaks.

Dr.Dave · 2012-05-25, 06:23 PM

@faston, the suit against SONICblue (ReplayTV) was stayed when the company filed for bankruptcy protection. The last model it produced omitted the commercial skip feature.

Dish obviously knew they would be sued. At least they have deep pockets and can fight the lawsuit to the conclusion, whatever that may be.

cm3020prob · 2012-05-26, 09:55 AM

In related news:

Quote:

Comcast has developed technology that would allow the nation's largest cable operator to deliver advertising to subscribers who skip commercials contained in TV shows recorded on a DVR, according to a U.S. patent application obtained by FierceCable.

Subscribers who hit fast-forward, pause and other trick-mode buttons on their remotes would receive an alternate ad displayed in the center of their TV screen or by making the alternate ad partially transparent, according to the patent.

http://www.fiercecable.com/story/com...dvr/2012-05-11

Bottom line, if you're a paying customer of a BDU, you are not authorized to fast forward ads. If you're receiving channels OTA, no problem, you can skip them, big brother is not watching you.

A few months ago, there was also talks on a patent where some commercials were being replaced based on demographics. Example, if Rogers account owner is 18-30 while watching CTV, play cellphone commercials, if 30-40, play mortgage commercials, if 40-50, play retirement commercials. Next step is to identify if a terminal is in the kids room, how old they are, learn their viewing habits and play commercials accordingly.

classicsat · 2012-05-27, 09:27 AM

What it means is that Canadian providers at least, know better than to have an automatic commercial skip.

I will add, that the SonicBlue suit primarily was about their program sharing capability, the commercial skipping a secondary suit.

dirtroad · 2012-05-27, 10:25 AM

Bell TV has that ability with the PVR's you just need to to push a button to skip forward a few times. I also have a Sony hard-drive/dvd recorder that can go through recorded programming and delete ads before making the dvd.

But, if the lawsuit comes to Canada, I will have to get intervener status so I can be compensated for $175/hour I charge for watching the commercials, and that would be retroactive to when I started watching TV, and let me tell you, it's starting to add up to big $, now!

And don't get me started on what I charge to watch the programming!

JohnnyCanuck · 2012-05-27, 12:44 PM

dirtroad, all PVR's have the 30 second skip. That's not the technology at issue here. This is technology that automatically skips commercials without you pressing any buttons.

As has been pointed out, this particular feature was a prominent selling feature for the ReplayTV system, which was an early competitor to TiVo (and IMO, vastly superior). SONICBlue went broke defending the lawsuits filed against it.

Dish obviously knows they're in for a fight and has built a war chest to take it on. Dish isn't afraid of a fight. They've done battle with media giants over rights fees many times. If successful, the impact on Canadians is less clear. Bell does use Echostar hardware (IIRC, Echostar is related to Dish) so the technology could wind up on Bell's system possible prompting a lawsuit from media companies here. But who? Bell owns the largest private broadcast network and is in bed with Rogers through MLSE.

It won't have wide impact in Canada unless one of Motorola/Cisco/Arris mimic the feature bringing it to Shaw and Rogers. Would Shaw Media sue Shaw Cablesystems and Shaw Direct? Would Rogers Media sue Rogers Cable?

In Canada, I don't think the issue will turn on a legal challenge. The presence of commercial advance will depend on the corporate boardrooms and Bell, Shaw, and Rogers.

57 · 2012-05-27, 12:48 PM

Quote:

..all PVR's have the 30 second skip...

Rogers Ontario does not. We have four differnet FF speeds (4X, 10X, 30X, 120X). I'm not sure about other providers. The skip feature is firmware controlled.

JohnnyCanuck · 2012-05-27, 07:34 PM

Did not know that. That kind of tells you that Rogers won't implement CA even if Dish prevails and Cisco/Motorola implement similar features.

dirtroad · 2012-05-27, 09:29 PM

JohnnyCanuck, I am aware of the automatic commercial skip, what is the difference if I push a button to do it, the machine does it for me, or I leave the room. It does not eliminate commercials during live broadcasts, only recorded broadcasts. There was a TV on the market that would mute all commercials which effectively did the same thing. The technology used for this is the same. Technology that automatically cues the commercials to make it easier for the broadcasters. They could encrypt that data stream so Dishnet's automatic skip would not function, but that should cause more problems from broadcasters I'm sure.

I think that as long as there is a way the end user can toggle it on and off is the only feature that Echostar/Dishnet or others should have to add to the systems otherwise I think the lawsuit is frivolous in nature.

One thing I like about my Sony PVR is I can watch shows at 2X speed and hear the Audio (pitch corrected) to completely follow a show, which brings new meaning tithe phrase "This hour has 22 minutes". One of the benefits of ADHD, it keeps me on my toes, and my attention!

The ironic thing I actually use the commercial feature on the Sony to extract the commercials and put them on a dvd for a friend who is a teacher to study and analyze in her High School Marketing Course.

I will be concered if someone straps me into my chair and forces me to watch some thing I don't want to.

I think the post is very important, my saterial view point on it, is just how frivolous a lawsuit I think it is!

jumpy27 · 2012-05-27, 09:39 PM

Can the automatic commercial skip be turned off? While I do like skipping commercials, I like watching some of them--and the only way to watch the ones you want is to skip them yourself.

Blackloz · 2012-05-27, 11:17 PM

I'm pretty sure Dish will win. They are not breaking any laws as the ads are not taken out but just skipped. Its no different then hitting the ff button yourself.

2012-05-25, 01:47 PM	#1
hamstercaster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Gatineau, QC Posts: 292	Dish Network being sued by broadcasters Dish Network is being sued by broadcasters over ad-skipping technology. Could it potentially impact Canadians? http://techland.time.com/2012/05/25/...=Google+Reader

2012-05-25, 05:38 PM	#5
majortom Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,618	a few types of commercials I think should be sued out of existence. 1.) drug commercials 2.) lawyer commercials 3.) political commercials 4.) infomercials If not for them, I'd be all good with watching honest advertising in between breaks. __________________ uhf/vhf combo rotor chimney mount homebrew vhf hi hpf ap-8700 preamp 4way split lg lcd dtt901 pctuner mythtv

2012-05-27, 10:25 AM	#9
dirtroad Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 892	Bell TV has that ability with the PVR's you just need to to push a button to skip forward a few times. I also have a Sony hard-drive/dvd recorder that can go through recorded programming and delete ads before making the dvd. But, if the lawsuit comes to Canada, I will have to get intervener status so I can be compensated for $175/hour I charge for watching the commercials, and that would be retroactive to when I started watching TV, and let me tell you, it's starting to add up to big $, now! And don't get me started on what I charge to watch the programming! __________________ If Life is a Highway,...then why is there no end to this dirtroad?

2012-05-27, 09:29 PM	#13
dirtroad Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 892	JohnnyCanuck, I am aware of the automatic commercial skip, what is the difference if I push a button to do it, the machine does it for me, or I leave the room. It does not eliminate commercials during live broadcasts, only recorded broadcasts. There was a TV on the market that would mute all commercials which effectively did the same thing. The technology used for this is the same. Technology that automatically cues the commercials to make it easier for the broadcasters. They could encrypt that data stream so Dishnet's automatic skip would not function, but that should cause more problems from broadcasters I'm sure. I think that as long as there is a way the end user can toggle it on and off is the only feature that Echostar/Dishnet or others should have to add to the systems otherwise I think the lawsuit is frivolous in nature. One thing I like about my Sony PVR is I can watch shows at 2X speed and hear the Audio (pitch corrected) to completely follow a show, which brings new meaning tithe phrase "This hour has 22 minutes". One of the benefits of ADHD, it keeps me on my toes, and my attention! The ironic thing I actually use the commercial feature on the Sony to extract the commercials and put them on a dvd for a friend who is a teacher to study and analyze in her High School Marketing Course. I will be concered if someone straps me into my chair and forces me to watch some thing I don't want to. I think the post is very important, my saterial view point on it, is just how frivolous a lawsuit I think it is! __________________ If Life is a Highway,...then why is there no end to this dirtroad?

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2012-05-25, 02:44 PM	#2
AFF Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 677	It is because of the new Hopper. It autoskips the ads. There is nothing like this in Canada so I don`t see how it would impact Us.

2012-05-25, 03:04 PM	#3
timlocke Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Guelph Posts: 551	I would gladly pay my cable provider for this feature in the stb/pvr. A discussion with many comments is on Ars Technica.

2012-05-25, 04:26 PM	#4
faston Veteran Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 1,545	Back when Tivo was making it's original debut, around 1999-2000, there was a competitor named 'Replay TV'. They were neck and neck with many people preferring Replay to Tivo. It doesn't exist now because it had this same feature (automatically skipping commercials) and AFAIK was sued out of existence.

2012-05-25, 06:23 PM	#6
Dr.Dave Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 4,821	@faston, the suit against SONICblue (ReplayTV) was stayed when the company filed for bankruptcy protection. The last model it produced omitted the commercial skip feature. Dish obviously knew they would be sued. At least they have deep pockets and can fight the lawsuit to the conclusion, whatever that may be.

2012-05-27, 09:27 AM	#8
classicsat Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kincardine ON. Posts: 4,008	What it means is that Canadian providers at least, know better than to have an automatic commercial skip. I will add, that the SonicBlue suit primarily was about their program sharing capability, the commercial skipping a secondary suit.

2012-05-27, 12:44 PM	#10
JohnnyCanuck Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 4,645	dirtroad, all PVR's have the 30 second skip. That's not the technology at issue here. This is technology that automatically skips commercials without you pressing any buttons. As has been pointed out, this particular feature was a prominent selling feature for the ReplayTV system, which was an early competitor to TiVo (and IMO, vastly superior). SONICBlue went broke defending the lawsuits filed against it. Dish obviously knows they're in for a fight and has built a war chest to take it on. Dish isn't afraid of a fight. They've done battle with media giants over rights fees many times. If successful, the impact on Canadians is less clear. Bell does use Echostar hardware (IIRC, Echostar is related to Dish) so the technology could wind up on Bell's system possible prompting a lawsuit from media companies here. But who? Bell owns the largest private broadcast network and is in bed with Rogers through MLSE. It won't have wide impact in Canada unless one of Motorola/Cisco/Arris mimic the feature bringing it to Shaw and Rogers. Would Shaw Media sue Shaw Cablesystems and Shaw Direct? Would Rogers Media sue Rogers Cable? In Canada, I don't think the issue will turn on a legal challenge. The presence of commercial advance will depend on the corporate boardrooms and Bell, Shaw, and Rogers.

2012-05-27, 07:34 PM	#12
JohnnyCanuck Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 4,645	Did not know that. That kind of tells you that Rogers won't implement CA even if Dish prevails and Cisco/Motorola implement similar features.

2012-05-27, 09:39 PM	#14
jumpy27 Veteran Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,228	Can the automatic commercial skip be turned off? While I do like skipping commercials, I like watching some of them--and the only way to watch the ones you want is to skip them yourself.

2012-05-27, 11:17 PM	#15
Blackloz Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Regina,SK & Plentywood MT Posts: 883	I'm pretty sure Dish will win. They are not breaking any laws as the ads are not taken out but just skipped. Its no different then hitting the ff button yourself.