TV Broadcast Towers & Transmitters (photos, vids)

Faz · 2006-03-18, 01:35 PM

Just for fun I went through the Industry Canada database and extracted the Toronto TV transmitters. I deduced which transmitter was on which antenna by the RAD_CENTRE parameter, which indicates the height of the middle (radiation centre) of the antenna above ground.

------------------
CN Tower - Lowest to Highest
------------------

Omnidirectional antenna at 564.8 metres:
CKXT-TV (channel 52, 30 kW)
CKXT-DT (channel 66, 3 kW)

Omnidirectional antenna at 565.7 metres:
CFTO-DT (channel 40, 17.4 kW)
CIII-DT-41 (channel 65, 3 kW) (authorized, not operational yet)

Directional antenna at 570.3 metres:
CBLT (channel 5, 100 kW)

Directional antenna at 573.6 metres:
CFTO (channel 9, 325 kW)

Directional antenna at 574.0 metres:
LOOK TV (15 channels in 2.6 GHz band, 64 W each)

Omnidirectional antenna at 597.8 metres:
CICA-TV (channel 19, 1,737.8 kW) (database shows this channel as directional?)
CBLT-DT (channel 20, 38 kW)
CBLFT-DT (channel 24, 2.5 kW)
CBLFT (channel 25, 615.6 kW) (authorized, not operational yet)

Omnidirectional antenna at 606.5 metres:
CBLFT (channel 25, 1,928 kW) (currently operating)

Omnidirectional antenna at 608.1 metres:
CIII-TV (channel 41, 732 kW)
CFMT-TV (channel 47, 1,138 kW)

Directional antenna at 621.8 metres:
CITY-DT (channel 53, 2 kW)
CITY-TV (channel 57, 310 kW)

------------------
1st Canadian Place
------------------

Omnidirectional antenna at 421.1 metres:
CJMT-DT (channel 44, 15 kW) (authorized, not operational yet)
CFMT-DT (channel 64, 15 kW (authorized, not operational yet)
CJMT-TV (channel 69, 500 kW)

------------------

For analog stations, the power quoted above is visual power. Aural power is usually about 10% of visual. For directional antennas (analog or digital) the quoted value is the power in the direction of maximum radiation.

From the looks of it, the new Global digital signal will have the same coverage pattern as CTV digital, except that it will not range nearly as far.

Tom.F.1 · 2006-03-19, 03:11 PM

I'd guess that your 'rad center' in the IC database isn't always correct.

Top Down
53/57
41/47
19/20/24/25
9
40/52/65/66
LOOK
5
FM

57 · 2006-03-19, 03:16 PM

Since the CN Tower is "only" 553 metres tall, those heights in post 1 must be above sea level, not above ground...

stampeder · 2006-03-19, 04:34 PM

The only altitude measurement I find useful in the IC database is HAAT (Height Above Average Terrain) which is also used by the FCC in the U.S.

http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblan...a_TV_Stations/

57 · 2006-03-19, 05:56 PM

I don't know how that (HAAT) would work since the Tower is just about the lowest point in the GTA. I'm probably 100 metres higher than the base of the tower for example and I'm only about 8 km away.

Faz · 2006-03-21, 10:09 PM

I checked again and the radiation centre value is height above mean sea level. I went with that value instead of EHAAT only to get a sense of which channels were on the same antenna, and where they were positioned on the Tower (and 1st Can. Place). If you are calculating actual coverage area or signal level at a distance, then EHAAT would be the one to use.

If Tom.F.1 is right, then there are some bad values in the database. Won't be the first time!

wainmanb · 2006-03-22, 10:46 AM

I look at those power charts and I still cannot figure why Sun (66) at 3 kw will not come in when City at 2 kw will come in 100% of the time and rock solid in Burlington. I guess the omnidirectional Sun (CKXT) antenna sends me less signal than the 2 kw directional CITY antenna. This seems a bit strange because I thought the CITY antenna tended to be pointed north- not west towards me. Lucky for me that I don't really want to see anything on Sun!

robcreaser · 2006-03-22, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wainmanb

I look at those power charts and I still cannot figure why Sun (66) at 3 kw will not come in when City at 2 kw will come in 100% of the time and rock solid in Burlington. I guess the omnidirectional Sun (CKXT) antenna sends me less signal than the 2 kw directional CITY antenna. This seems a bit strange because I thought the CITY antenna tended to be pointed north- not west towards me. Lucky for me that I don't really want to see anything on Sun!

Its not just the power level.. also the height.. CityTV is 187 Ft higher and thats bound to help a lot. BTW I'm at Guelph and New St Burlington and don't have much luck with Sun on 66 either.. have you tried to get their Hamilton Digital antenna also on low power from teh century 21 building?

Getting Global DT might be tough also.. same power only a little higher. We'll find out soon enough

mr.eous · 2006-03-23, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robcreaser

Its not just the power level.. also the height.. CityTV is 187 Ft higher and thats bound to help a lot.

Directionality of the transmitter antenna has a large effect...

Quote:

Originally Posted by robcreaser

have you tried to get their Hamilton Digital antenna also on low power from teh century 21 building?

The CKXT-DT rebroadcast transmitter in 'Hamilton' is at 481 First Road West, Stoney Creek -- the CH tower, owned by Global; it's not on a building.

wainmanb · 2006-03-23, 11:53 AM

In Burlington with my antenna array, nothing shows up on 15 except the illusive "HDTV" sign on my SirT451. I presume this is the CKXT (Sun) repeater signal. I think it is about one "bar" and it fluctuates rapidly even though I put a booster on the antenna. I suppose that signal would be crystal clear if you were in the parking lot next to the tower :-)

From where I am in Burlington I think that the antenna I have facing Buffalo would in fact pick up the signal from 15... it is only 45 degrees or so off axis and the 4 bowtie antenna I have is really not that directional.

Life, and OTA signals, are a mystery.

rob50312 · 2006-03-23, 05:53 PM

At my location in Mississauga channel 15 analog comes in near perfect from Buffalo;tct.Digital 66 is perfect and strong:suntv.

stampeder · 2007-04-19, 02:08 PM

Our coverage of the Lyon Mountain TV tower collapse of WCFE PBS HD (which serves Southern Quebec/Montreal regions) begins here:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=51210

in post #153:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=537428

HDTV101 · 2008-05-17, 03:56 AM

I found this on YouTube... wow what I tall tower it is.

john33 · 2008-05-17, 09:35 AM

Lived near that tower for years. Its perched near the edge of the niagara escarpment - so the camera views almost rival the CN Tower !

mille · 2008-10-10, 03:10 PM

i was wondering if OTA digital technologies are more "fragile" than the old analog one ( transmitters , control rooms , etc ) ?

do we have to expect technical problems after the transition ( feb 09 ) ?

2006-03-19, 03:11 PM	#2
Tom.F.1 Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ajax, Ontario Posts: 1,733	I'd guess that your 'rad center' in the IC database isn't always correct. Top Down 53/57 41/47 19/20/24/25 9 40/52/65/66 LOOK 5 FM __________________ Samsung HL61A750+BD-P1500, Bell 9242, CM4228, Elite SC-27, Warfedale 9.6+Surrounds, Kicker CVR15's w/VSX-79 Amp

2006-03-19, 03:16 PM	#3
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 41,646	Since the CN Tower is "only" 553 metres tall, those heights in post 1 must be above sea level, not above ground... __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment/photos) 57's Optimization Services

2006-03-19, 05:56 PM	#5
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 41,646	I don't know how that (HAAT) would work since the Tower is just about the lowest point in the GTA. I'm probably 100 metres higher than the base of the tower for example and I'm only about 8 km away. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment/photos) 57's Optimization Services

2006-03-23, 05:53 PM	#11
rob50312 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: derry + winston Mississauga Posts: 789	At my location in Mississauga channel 15 analog comes in near perfect from Buffalo;tct.Digital 66 is perfect and strong:suntv. __________________ samsung 151 ,attic cm4248 yagi uhf antenna ,cm 7775 preamp and ant. direct xg43 with winegard ap4700 and zenith hdr-230

2007-04-19, 02:08 PM	#12
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC Posts: 18,944	Tower Collapse Knocks Out PBS OTA TV Station Serving QC, E. ON Our coverage of the Lyon Mountain TV tower collapse of WCFE PBS HD (which serves Southern Quebec/Montreal regions) begins here: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=51210 in post #153: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=537428

2006-03-18, 01:35 PM	#1
Faz Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 28	TV Broadcast Towers & Transmitters (photos, vids) Just for fun I went through the Industry Canada database and extracted the Toronto TV transmitters. I deduced which transmitter was on which antenna by the RAD_CENTRE parameter, which indicates the height of the middle (radiation centre) of the antenna above ground. ------------------ CN Tower - Lowest to Highest ------------------ Omnidirectional antenna at 564.8 metres: CKXT-TV (channel 52, 30 kW) CKXT-DT (channel 66, 3 kW) Omnidirectional antenna at 565.7 metres: CFTO-DT (channel 40, 17.4 kW) CIII-DT-41 (channel 65, 3 kW) (authorized, not operational yet) Directional antenna at 570.3 metres: CBLT (channel 5, 100 kW) Directional antenna at 573.6 metres: CFTO (channel 9, 325 kW) Directional antenna at 574.0 metres: LOOK TV (15 channels in 2.6 GHz band, 64 W each) Omnidirectional antenna at 597.8 metres: CICA-TV (channel 19, 1,737.8 kW) (database shows this channel as directional?) CBLT-DT (channel 20, 38 kW) CBLFT-DT (channel 24, 2.5 kW) CBLFT (channel 25, 615.6 kW) (authorized, not operational yet) Omnidirectional antenna at 606.5 metres: CBLFT (channel 25, 1,928 kW) (currently operating) Omnidirectional antenna at 608.1 metres: CIII-TV (channel 41, 732 kW) CFMT-TV (channel 47, 1,138 kW) Directional antenna at 621.8 metres: CITY-DT (channel 53, 2 kW) CITY-TV (channel 57, 310 kW) ------------------ 1st Canadian Place ------------------ Omnidirectional antenna at 421.1 metres: CJMT-DT (channel 44, 15 kW) (authorized, not operational yet) CFMT-DT (channel 64, 15 kW (authorized, not operational yet) CJMT-TV (channel 69, 500 kW) ------------------ For analog stations, the power quoted above is visual power. Aural power is usually about 10% of visual. For directional antennas (analog or digital) the quoted value is the power in the direction of maximum radiation. From the looks of it, the new Global digital signal will have the same coverage pattern as CTV digital, except that it will not range nearly as far.

2006-03-19, 04:34 PM	#4
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC Posts: 18,944	The only altitude measurement I find useful in the IC database is HAAT (Height Above Average Terrain) which is also used by the FCC in the U.S. http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblan...a_TV_Stations/

2006-03-21, 10:09 PM	#6
Faz Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 28	I checked again and the radiation centre value is height above mean sea level. I went with that value instead of EHAAT only to get a sense of which channels were on the same antenna, and where they were positioned on the Tower (and 1st Can. Place). If you are calculating actual coverage area or signal level at a distance, then EHAAT would be the one to use. If Tom.F.1 is right, then there are some bad values in the database. Won't be the first time!

2006-03-22, 10:46 AM	#7
wainmanb Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Appleby Line and Upper Middle Rd Posts: 12	I look at those power charts and I still cannot figure why Sun (66) at 3 kw will not come in when City at 2 kw will come in 100% of the time and rock solid in Burlington. I guess the omnidirectional Sun (CKXT) antenna sends me less signal than the 2 kw directional CITY antenna. This seems a bit strange because I thought the CITY antenna tended to be pointed north- not west towards me. Lucky for me that I don't really want to see anything on Sun!

2006-03-23, 11:53 AM	#10
wainmanb Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Appleby Line and Upper Middle Rd Posts: 12	In Burlington with my antenna array, nothing shows up on 15 except the illusive "HDTV" sign on my SirT451. I presume this is the CKXT (Sun) repeater signal. I think it is about one "bar" and it fluctuates rapidly even though I put a booster on the antenna. I suppose that signal would be crystal clear if you were in the parking lot next to the tower :-) From where I am in Burlington I think that the antenna I have facing Buffalo would in fact pick up the signal from 15... it is only 45 degrees or so off axis and the 4 bowtie antenna I have is really not that directional. Life, and OTA signals, are a mystery.

2008-05-17, 03:56 AM	#13
HDTV101 Veteran Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,530	CHCH Tower Video I found this on YouTube... wow what I tall tower it is.

2008-05-17, 09:35 AM	#14
john33 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ancaster Ont. Posts: 206	Lived near that tower for years. Its perched near the edge of the niagara escarpment - so the camera views almost rival the CN Tower !

2008-10-10, 03:10 PM	#15
mille Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: montréal, Mile-end, CM4228 , CM 7000, Rotor, Sharp aquos 26", Toshiba 22" lcd-tv, DVD-R DMR-EZ28 Posts: 335	OTA digital transmitters not as robust as analogue? i was wondering if OTA digital technologies are more "fragile" than the old analog one ( transmitters , control rooms , etc ) ? do we have to expect technical problems after the transition ( feb 09 ) ?

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