50VS810 or 50V710

[hugh]

subjective observation...

I saw nine 50VS810's tuned to the HD football game yesterday (Eagles and Minnesota) and was surprised at the poor quality. Both my wife and I noticed that on fast moving plays the Hitachi image got blocky and fuzzy. We also found the overall image fairly dark and in some colors were just not true.

I commented on the image quality to several representatives of Hitachi and they said it was the signal source that was the problem not the set.

At half time, we went home and watched the remaining part of the game on our DLP set (on the same channel) and the picture was sweet.

[mike infinity]

Originally Posted by hugh

I saw nine 50VS810's tuned to the HD football game yesterday (Eagles and Minnesota) and was surprised at the poor quality.

Nine?

I commented on the image quality to several representatives of Hitachi and they said it was the signal source that was the problem not the set.

Well there's no reason for the PQ to be any more 'blocky' or 'fuzzy' than the competition, so I suspect that it might be a problem with the encoding/trasmission/decoding as the sales rep suggests.

That said, I have found that this hitachi is not particularly bright, and does poorly particularly for off-axis viewing....even compared to its own 'low end' v500 and other cheaper competition from sony, etc. That reflective screen cover just makes things worse.

An aside, the FS near my house has the panny HD2+ DLP right next to the sony GW and hitachi 50v500. The panny clearly has the best blacks (contrast) and less SDE, but not as good colour or as clean an image (in terms of noise) as the Hitachi. The sony does well, but not as well as the other two in any category.

I don't know why the Hitachi 'high end' does worse than the V500 series.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

[casscarr2002]

Not particularly bright??, are you actually looking at properly calibrated sets or just the stores plunked boxed sets to make these assumptions. The VS is very bright even when calibrated to my 40% contrast and 55% brightness.
The contrast for the VS is stated ( I did read this somewhere I swear ) at 1200:1.
Almost everynight I watch TV from the Dinner table at about 140 degrees left of the TV and have no problem at all viewing the image. (albeit I do see stars once in a while after wifey slaps me for not listening to her during dinner).
I also see no SDE whatsoever unless I'm 3-4 feet away. SSE yes but that's expected with any LCD. Go to Hills TV/Audio in Hamilton, have them put HD channels on both their V500 and VS810 which are right next to each other, they can dim the lights for you. When I was buying mine, we calibrated both sets along with a Sony close by. You will see the VS810 picture to be sharper and more colourful than the V500. I will also say that with lights on in any showroom, the very obvious better anti reflective screen on the v500 will net a brighter picture. Turn down the lights and you'll again see a difference. My lights in my Room have no direct reflection to any seating position which is very helpful. Damn reflective screen on this.

[mike infinity]

Originally Posted by casscarr2002

The VS is very bright even when calibrated to my 40% contrast and 55% brightness.

I am talking about side by side comparisons with other sets, all of which I personally adjusted for comparable output. If the VS is bright enough 'for you', then thats all that matters. But now we are sidestepping the point.

I also noticed that the light drop off off-axis was noticably worse on the vs810 relative to the v500 or the Sony GW, particularly in the vertical plane. And lets not forget that because the reflective cover collects ambient light, the VS810 light engine has to compete with those reflections.

Again, I know you feel its acceptable 'for you'. I'm just saying it is not as good as the competition. For the record, the LG 48sz40 was much worse than any of these sets. But on this thread, we are talking about the small differences between the very best sets (among LCD RPTVs).

The contrast for the VS is stated ( I did read this somewhere I swear ) at 1200:1.

Many CRTs are rated at 500:1 and have noticably better contrast than DLPs rated at 3000:1. These numbers are ALWAYS suspect since there is no standardized test methodology (not to mention the human eye can only distinguish a few hundred to one anyway). Some manufactures compare the maximum brightness at full on to turning the set off to get the number. Others adjust contrast/brightness settings during a measurement to pump up the numbers.

The eyeball tests work best: The v500 to my eye is clearly brighter. Black level performance is par, both a little bit worse than (say) the sammy 5085 or panny DLPs. There is no noticable improvement in contrast for the vs810 over the v500...which is why Hitachi NEVER quotes CR numbers in their published specs for these sets. Sure, they'll say things like 'high contrast lens', but these are 'smoke and mirrors' marketing ploys (just like 1080p processing). When you factor in ambient light, the vs810 does noticably worse for black level.

You will see the VS810 picture to be sharper and more colourful than the V500.

Actually I have done just that. And I disagree with this observation completely. Sharpness was par (edge enhancement off on both sets), colour was par, black level was par (in the dark). Off axis viewing and brightness were clearly better on the v500. And everyone I discussed it with at the showroom agreed with this assessment.

And since both sets have par sharpness and identical pixel fill factors, SDE will be identical. Any sufficiently sharp 720p 50"+ LCD will show SDE. If it doesn't show at 4-8', its because the screen is not resolving the pixels or is introducing blur (like the sony)...both are examples of undesirable artifacting.

Like DLP rainbows, lots of people don't notice SDE much. I think its a very minor issue (only marginal difference between DLP/LCD anyway). That said, check out a vs810 next to a panny 50" dlp. At 4-8', I guarantee you will see the difference in fill factor and increased SDE on any LCD if you look for it. IOW, SDE is generally apparent on all big screen TV's...and the differences are only noticable in relative comparisons side by side.

Damn reflective screen on this.

Its unlikely that ceiling light sources will reflect directly off the cover and into the viewer's eye in anyone's room. What bothers me is when the lights are on and you are watching darker scenes (or when there is a cut to commercial), you are treated to a reflection of yourself and your room thanks to any ambient light. Personally, I find that particularly annoying....not to mention the negative affect on black levels.

Everything else equal, I would never buy a set with a pane of flat reflective glass across the screen. And the reason is that I personally find it quite objectionable. My room has 3 full height south facing windows, and I don't enjoy watching TV in the dark (just the odd movie).

My point here is this: even if it doesn't bother you too much, the screen cover is definitely a detractor...one that the design team of the V500 got right.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn