Channel Master 7000PAL, CM TV, CM7400 DVR's

[Steve Smart]

What makes you think it is the same TVGOS carrier? I would have thought the Buffalo zip code would use TVGOS data from WNED-TV (market #54) and the local (Toronto?) postal code would use data from either CKVR-TV or CFTO-TV (market #901).

Excuse me. You are correct. I type faster than I think. When I use the setup as described, it does indeed get the data from either CFTO or CKVR (I've tested both), which is why several Buffalo stations are missing. I meant to show that the 7000-PAL is capable of receiving data from Canadian TVGOS carriers, but that its firmware does not allow it to be displayed.

[paulfromottawa]

Thanks Roger, Steve and DrSmart for your informative responses.

Regarding TVGOS. Here is how I can summarize things: Since I can't receive any US stations (in particular a US station that carries TVGOS info), there is no way I can get TVGOS working on a 7000PAL (or 7400 for that matter). However, since there are 2 Ottawa stations that do carry TVGOS info, my only option is to use another device that accepts Canadian postal codes (either passing through to a secondary device - such as VCR - that supports it, or changing to a different DVR altogether). For now, I'll just live with the 50% PSIP coverage here in Ottawa (7 stations out of 14 provide PSIP info).

Regarding 7000PAL/7400. I think I'll get a second 7000PAL for my friend. Given my current requirements (i.e., just looking for basic OTA recording and live buffering), I believe the current 7000PAL advantages (more sensitive tuner, more flexibility in manual programming) outweigh the potential improvements that may or may not come to the 7400 in the future (eSATA drive support in particular).

Thanks again for all your help.

[Jase88]

paulfromottawa, not sure if this was mentioned, but most digital TV stations in Canada now provide a PSIP-encoded Electronic Programming Guide. This data comes directly over the air from the station, and typically provides about 12 hours of programming data (compared to a full seven days with TVGOS).

The CM7000 (and presumably the 7400) is capable of displaying PSIP EPG data.

So all is not lost in the absence of TVGOS....

[interdit_450]

Just out of curiosity, is there any hope to convince Channel Master to make an update to allow the 7000 to be able to accept Canadian postal codes? On my end if such a download were available for say about 10$ I'd be willing to go for it... If enough Canadians are interested with the help of a major Canadian CM distributor wouldn't the business case be there for them to write a few lines of code and post something on their website for people to download and install via USB?

[Schmerpy]

ROFL.

Sorry, but your post kind of cracked me up.

Channel Master can't even put out firmware updates to make their PVRs operate reliably. I've sent them emails with a whole list of silly bugs in my 7000PAL and have never received any kind of response from the company, nor has any firmware update appeared in well over a year.

I doubt they're hard at work on extra features, like Canadian TVGOS.

[roger1818]

Don't forget the CM-7000PAL is a re-branded EchoStar TR-50 later renamed Dish Network DTVPal DVR, which was obsoleted about the same time CM started selling it (see DTVPal DVR is dead, but the identical Channel Master CM-7000PAL lives on).

I suspect CM bought the design but EchoStar still has the employees who wrote the code. For them to upgrade the software they would have to either pay EchoStar to do it or hire software designers to learn how the code works (a tough job) before they can start fixing the bugs. Either that or CM is letting EchoStar use (and abuse) their name, letting EchoStar keep the profits while isolating themselves from any negative feedback.

[CraigWB]

Background:
I had a philips analog-tuner DVR back in the early 2000s, it crashed frequently, was difficult to use, but it kinda-sorta worked.
When I upgraded to ATSC, I went with a panasonic DVDR as there were no ATSC OTA DVRs I could find at that time. a few years later I tried a polaroid ATSC capable DVR - that went back into the box and back to the store - and I went back to my Panasonic DVDR.

So that's my history with these things; fast forward a few years....

3 weeks or so ago, I picked up the CM7400 in the hope of being able to watch recorded shows in HD. I really tried to like this unit, but ultimately it's a dud, and 3 weeks later I'm back with my Standard-Def, but reliable Panasonic DVDR.

I found the picture of the CM7400 to be great, ease of setup and ease of use also very good.

..but:

1) The unit runs way too hot - too hot to touch for any length of time - while not burning you, its certainly very uncomfortable. OK, so I bought a cheap netbook cooling pad, set that underneath, and that took care of the heat problems, yes, I shouldn't have to do this with a $375 product, but I can live it.

2) Some folks complain about the guide - not a big issue for me personally, the guide is gravy. neither myself nor my wife ever found VCRs or later our DVDR difficult to program - enter start, end, channel. So, upon getting the CM7400 setup, we were spoiled - the guide was very nice. the clock set itself from an NTP server. the PSIP guide populated with varying amounts of future data depending on the channel, overall we felt it was decent, and anyway, it still gave the tried and true option of entering times manually if the program info was unpopulated in the guide. So, in conclusion, we could live with the guide.

3) It would crash regularly - 3 or 4 times per week. required a power off/on at the power bar. Annoying, but OK, we can live with that, maybe it'll be fixed in future firmware/software released.

4) The Tuner - Considerably less sensitive and less capable than our other devices. our weakest channels (WGRZ and WKBW - weakest, but still usually reliable) we're especially unreliable on the CM7400. the CM7400 would fail to lock on, or the picture would be pixelating and breaking up, but when checking that channel at the same time on another TV or our DVDR (fed by the same antenna) picture was good, meter was showing 90+% on the other TV/DVDR. ---> This was the deal breaker. we were missing our shows.

It's dissappointing that it's 2012 and I still cant get a reliable ATSC HD capable DVR that doesnt require monthly subscriptions...there seems to be so few of these devices on that market. however, I guess that's the way it is with cable companies providing their proprietary boxes to subscribers, there cant be much of a market for the major japanese manufacturers who used to provide good VCRs and DVDRs.

My advice to anyone in the market for DVR would be to avoid the CM7400, or at least buy it from someplace with a good return policy On the face of it, it looks to be a good device, but, sadly, it falls short.

[Jase88]

interdit_450, likewise with Schmerpy, I had difficulty getting answers from Channel Master. After waiting well over 6 months for a response from emails I'd sent (their call in number was manned by a messenger service and nobody returned calls), I finally started bashing their customer service on Twitter.

That worked.

I finally started hearing from many different disciplines throughout the company: Engineers, management, sales, etc. Of course they all had excuses as to why you can't reach them or they didn't return inquiries (we were moving and lost your email, sorry!).

At the end of the day, I finally got some frank answers from a customer service guy, who told me the company simply won't be improving their product for the Canadian market. No TVGOS support, and likely nothing for VUDU or whatever other on-demand services they partner with.

Of course Channel Master has no issue whatsoever with selling their products in Canada--and often for a premium price. You're not getting a discount on that DVR because TVGOS or VUDU won't work...

I even contacted Rovi, who owns and runs TVGOS. I was trying to get Toronto stations added to the Buffalo zip codes (currently only CFTO is included). That failed as well.

[interdit_450]

Oh well, wishful thinking on my part! LOL

Schmerpy I was hoping that if there was some easy $$$ in it for CM and pressure was applied by a main Canadian distributer they would be more receptive to a pay-only Cdn update... I understand that developing and maintaining free SW/FW updates for an obsolete DVR would make no sense from a business point of view so CM would not work on it unless they had significant extra motivation.

[Jase88]

I'd hesitate to refer to the 7000 as 'obsolete'. It has about the same capacity, a better tuner than the 7400, and doesn't overheat. An appropriate software update would likely give the 7000 the same level of features and functionality (ie. streaming services) as the 7400.

Channel Master just didn't want to pay licensing fees, so they had their own DVR built to replace it.

[roger1818]

^^^Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the Dish Network DTVPal DVR (not CM-7000) when I said obsolete, though a better would would have been discontinued.

[Schmerpy]

I find it utterly baffling that CM would choose a less capable tuner for the 7400.

One of the criticisms I always had of the 7000 was the tuner. It's ok, but all televisions I have (some as much as 6 years old) perform better. When I saw the information on the new 7400 six months ago, my first reaction was, "Ahh, finally a better tuner..."

[JayT]

OK, I know I'm buttin' in from outside Canada. Perhaps the 'butt-in' habit is hard to break based on my career as a Bell System tech. Useful news on the CM7400: I own two and have had problems with both; CM Answer Center has been intermittently easy or difficult to reach with concerns. However, one Answer Center response DID resolve the issue
of CM7400 failure to display, without pixelation, weaker OTA stations in my area. CM-tech told me that the CM7400 motherboard does a poor job of displaying HD-1080p and recommended resetting my CM7400 output to TV at HD-1080i. That worked for me; I'm pleased to view the channels I want with recording capability. I realize 1080i may fall short for others though. JayT

[paulfromottawa]

Humm, my CM7000PAL only gives me the option for 480p, 720p or 1080i for HD Type.

I assume you mean the HdType/AspectRatio settings under Setup->SystemSetup->Installation->HdtvSetup

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by JayT

CM-tech told me that the CM7400 motherboard does a poor job of displaying HD-1080p and recommended resetting my CM7400 output to TV at HD-1080i. That worked for me; I'm pleased to view the channels I want with recording capability. I realize 1080i may fall short for others though. JayT

Is this really an issue since 1080p is NOT a format used for ATSC broadcasting. Maybe the CM7400 can "upconvert" but that doesn't make it true 1080p and ATSC is broadcast in either 720p or 1080i.