MTS iPhone 3G: Actual Bandwidth?

[TorontoColin]

You'll also never actually get 21 Mbps, even if you were the only one on the network. 21 Mbps is a theoretical speed, but real world results will never match theoretical speeds.

As I said earlier, think of wifi speeds. 802.11g is supposed to be capable of 54 Mbps, but if you try transferring files from one PC to another over your wireless network, or streaming HD video files, or anything like that, you will quickly notice that you don't actually get 54 Mbps.

Where Canada ranks in terms of home internet connections isn't really relevant. Wireless is a different animal, and every country is restricted by the capabilities of HSPA technology. There are things they can do to improve speeds, but it would require tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of investment in a technology that they plan on migrating their customers away from over the next few years.

[binary1010]

Yes but i am not under contract or paying monthly for my router...it also comes down to false advertising...21Mbps means 21Mbps...and they have been falsely advertising 4g!!...when they advertise 7.5 Mbps for wired that is what i get and expect....i dont know about you but its like a kick in the stomach to do a speed test with a new phone capable of such speeds and not get it at all...its depressing because Canada is so far behind other countries...almost in the stone age of the internet with speed and prices....and the main reason is the corporate sponsored CRTC. ...the other reason is Canadians are complacent.

[JamesK]

^^^^
I don't think I've ever seen guaranteed bandwidth for communications circuits, unless you're willing to pay for dedicated trunks. Every mode of connecting to ISPs commonly available to consumers is sold on an "up to" basis, be it via ADSL, cable modem, dial up phone and now wireless. If you understood how wireless works, you'd know that guaranteed rates are impossible, as the throughput depends on factors that are beyond the carriers control. For example, signal strength decreases with the square of distance. So, if you're twice as far away, you only have 1/4 the signal strength. As signal strength decreases, the performance will also drop. As I mentioned earlier, more users means more noise, which again reduces performance.

[binary1010]

"guaranteed rates"?...the MTS network does less than 10% of the advertised rate...

Its still false advertising....as if anyone wanting to tether their phone is told it can do 21Mbps but you will probably get under 2Mbps will actually buy into the HSPA network LOL...

They HAVE to false advertise or no one would buy it....good luck selling a car that can go 100Km but average speed on the highway will be under 20 Km...

[JamesK]

^^^^
Where are you measuring this? Location often affects the signal. For example, I get a poor, often no signal at one end of my condo, but a strong signal at the other end and I have at least 3 Rogers towers within a few blocks. Perhaps you're in a poor signal area.

[TorontoColin]

Your Bold 9900 is not capable of 21 Mbps. Its highest theoretical download speed is 14.4 Mbps and its highest theoretical upload speed is under 6 Mbps.

It's not like MTS is alone here. No HSPA carrier can actually deliver the peak speeds they advertise. That is true world-wide, this isn't a Canada only phenomenon. In fact, Canadian wireless providers have been among the first to roll out many new technologies, including the fledgling LTE networks currently being built out. Canadian wireless may be expensive, but it's among the fastest and most reliable in the world. You can switch carriers, but it won't be any different with someone else. HSPA is still much faster than older GSM and CDMA2000 networks.

Also, 4G refers to the technology in use, not actual speeds.

[binary1010]

@JamesK

I am measuring this by the comments on this forum and the fact that the tech guy for MTS told me that 2.0 Mbps is average in the City...and i can see an MTS tower from my home...i guess i need three towers close to my home??

This is how MTS describes the service deep within the recesses of their website;

"Depending on the location, you may have a hard time deciding whether to sign up for wireless Internet service or landline Internet service. On average, the new wireless network will offer an experience of 2 Mbps. It is important to remember that you are comparing a dedicated service to a shared service"

@TorontoColin...i notice you are with Wind Mobile...are you aware that CRTC and the big telecoms companies in Canada tried to block their entry into Canada?...the only reason they are upgrading their networks in Canada is probably because of Wind...and are you ok with Rogers advertising LTE as "beyond 4g"?

[JamesK]

While Rogers has promoted LTE as better than 3G, I don't ever recall them claiming it's better than 4G. One thing I do appreciate is that Rogers has been honest and called it LTE rather than 4G, as some of the other carriers have done. LTE is part way between 3G & 4G. Also, "on average" means that sometimes it's better, other times, worse. The area of my condo where I have my computer is definitely one of the worse spots. Have you tried your tests at multiple locations?

[binary1010]

Rogers 'Beyond 4G' claim slammed

The use of "Beyond 4G" by Rogers to describe its newest high-speed wireless network is being criticized as misleading by a consumer advocacy group.

"It's a truth in advertising problem," John Lawford, a lawyer with the Ottawa-based Public Interest Advocacy Group, told CBC News in an interview Friday.

Minimum guaranteed speeds

He suggested it would be far more useful for companies to post minimum guaranteed speeds for their wireless and broadband networks, along with the speeds required to perform different activities such as internet voice calls or downloading a movie in a given length of time.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/st...rs-beyond.html

Well if i point my phone up i get way better speeds then when it is flat on a table...thats about it...so get a dock and let your phone sit pointing up...its a noticeable difference.

[JamesK]

^^^^
From that link:

"To confirm, LTE is beyond 4G," said Rogers spokeswoman Carly Suppa in an email. "LTE provides a significantly different experience from 4G HSPA+."

It's quite clear she doesn't know what she's talking about, as HSPA+ and 4G are quite different things. I wonder where that claim was made? I certainly haven't seen it and the Rogers site still speaks of LTE.

Today, on DHC, there an article about Bell's "4G" network.

The problem is the marketing departments who have a long history of shovelling it. Technical people, such as myself, take offence at such bogus claims.

Regardless, getting back to your argument, I could lay my phone flat on my desk at one end of my condo and get a lousy signal. I could then lay if flat on the coffee table at the other end and get a good signal so, as before, your location can make a big difference in signal strength and there's no way to provide perfect coverage and any range of typical download speeds would have to include zero, as there will always be dead spots.

[binary1010]

Yes there are places in the home where a signal "might" be better...im sure it is...but is hard to tell because this HSPA network is all over the place with speed tests...first i get 2Mbps...then 3 then 1 then 0.67 the...on an on in the same place...so its hard to find a spot in the home that is "better"...the only way i would be sure is put the phone on the roof covered in tin foil satellite dish...

So i guess HSPA guaranteed minimum speeds would be 0.0001?...its like someone from MTS tech just bought a little HSPA router(?) and put it in the middle of Winnipeg and said hey "MTS in Manitoba has HSPA!"...

I also did a "traceroute" with it tethered using vista command prompt a few weeks ago to check the pings...and as you can see all over the place;



with wired internet its obviously consistent 1ms to 30ms.

[TorontoColin]

Originally Posted by binary1010

@TorontoColin...i notice you are with Wind Mobile...are you aware that CRTC and the big telecoms companies in Canada tried to block their entry into Canada?...the only reason they are upgrading their networks in Canada is probably because of Wind...and are you ok with Rogers advertising LTE as "beyond 4g"?

Absolutely. And, while I'm glad that Wind was allowed to operate, I can't blame the incumbent providers for attempting to protect their business model by trying to block a threat.

And the reason that these companies are upgrading to LTE doesn't really have anything to do with the new entrants. Part of the reason is simply to keep pace with each other; they can't allow their competitors to have an advantage in network speeds. However, it's also something they need to do in order to offer the best selection in smartphones and sell the more expensive data packages, which is a huge motivator.

Also, I don't really care what G they call their network. The fact is, people who don't know the difference between HSPA and LTE probably don't know the technical definitions of 3G and 4G anyway, and those who do know already know what the technology itself means.

Originally Posted by binary1010

He suggested it would be far more useful for companies to post minimum guaranteed speeds for their wireless and broadband networks, along with the speeds required to perform different activities such as internet voice calls or downloading a movie in a given length of time.

That would be great, except that the nature of wireless service makes it physically impossible to guarantee a minimum speed. There is nothing they can do to change that.

Originally Posted by binary1010

Well if i point my phone up i get way better speeds then when it is flat on a table...thats about it...so get a dock and let your phone sit pointing up...its a noticeable difference.

The cellular radio is probably in the back of your phone, near the bottom. If your phone is face down on a table, the table will inhibit the signal. If there is nothing blocking the back of your device, your signal will be stronger.

Originally Posted by binary1010

So i guess HSPA guaranteed minimum speeds would be 0.0001?...its like someone from MTS tech just bought a little HSPA router(?) and put it in the middle of Winnipeg and said hey "MTS in Manitoba has HSPA!"...

No. There is no minimum guaranteed speed with cellular networks. However, every tower you connect to has HSPA technology. You use the same connection to make phone calls and text messages. Again, HSPA is just a technology used to connect your phone to the cellular network.

Originally Posted by binary1010

I also did a "traceroute" with it tethered using vista command prompt a few weeks ago to check the pings...and as you can see all over the place;
...
with wired internet its obviously consistent 1ms to 30ms.

That is the nature of all HSPA (and LTE and CDMA and GSM) connections.You can't guarantee speeds or pings or anything else. Physical obstacles, signal interference, and the impossibility of controlling the number of users per tower are just some of the many things well out of control of wireless providers, unlike wireline services like DSL and cable. You simply can't expect the same service from wireless.

[JamesK]

However, every tower you connect to has HSPA technology.

I don't know about MTS, but Rogers still has some GSM only sites. They claim 95% of the population has HSPA and 98% GSM.

That is the nature of all HSPA (and LTE and CDMA and GSM) connections.You can't guarantee speeds or pings or anything else.

LTE and 4G are supposed to have much better latency than 3G.

[TorontoColin]

It's possible that there are still some GSM only sites in more remote areas, but those would be noticeable, both on device and in speed tests. I don't see that being the issue here.

LTE connections are supposed to offer lower latency and higher speeds, but there is no guarantee. If your connection is bad, or there is some source of interference, or there are too many people on a tower, or the network is just overloaded your LTE connection can perform just as poorly as your HSPA connection. And that's not even considering the other potential points of failure between a smartphone and a web server. You just can't guarantee anything.

[JamesK]

^^^^
According to the Rogers coverage map, most of Saskatchewan is a remote area