The long distance myth - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

thenewdc · 2012-07-21, 11:49 AM

Another point that nobody mentions is the ridiculous and infamous TouchTone charge Bell still applies to all of it's customers, and they never tell you that they make over $100 million a year in pure profit from that charge alone. This charge is as bad as or even worse than the SAF Fee and the CRTC should look into it.

TorontoColin · 2012-07-21, 12:04 PM

The touchtone fee might be a candidate for a class action suit, given the SAF precedent.

But I believe this was meant to be about domestic long distance on mobile phones. The touchtone fee (or the intricacies of the history of POTS long distance) doesn't apply to mobile devices.

Wayne · 2012-07-22, 01:15 AM

How come there is no concept of long distance for data but their is for voice?

JamesK · 2012-07-22, 07:30 AM

Actually, there had been long distance for data for many years. The old Telex network worked the same as long distance phone. You paid for time and distance on dial up calls. With leased services, you'd pay for distance and bandwidth. On the other hand, it'd be a lot more difficult to charge long distance with the Internet, as they'd have to examine every packet, figure out the distance, total the cost etc. It'd be a book keeping nightmare. So, it's just easier to have flat rate service. Long distance phone has also reached the point of flat rate for any distance within the country. Earlier packet switched networks, based on X.25 and frame relay, were often configured as virtual circuits, between points A & B, and charged according to distance and amount of data.

Jase88 · 2012-07-22, 01:12 PM

Wayne, there has never been "long distance" charges on IP-based data due to the complexities mentioned by JamesK.

Though it wouldn't surprise me if the carriers begin charging everyone for time-of-use data. Offering lower pricing for data during off-peak network times. This data billing scheme already exists for some large wireless data customers who pull data from remote terminals--such as hydro utilities using wireless data networks for their meter data retrieval.

llcarlos · 2012-07-23, 11:41 AM

I'm confused. Rogers offers unlimited calls to 5 or 10 numbers across Canada but in the fine print it says it does not include long distsance charges. Yet the rogers salesperson said it included long distance charges. Which statement should I believe?

JamesK · 2012-07-23, 12:21 PM

^^^^
In the info about that 6 GB super plan, it days that MY10 doesn't cover international long distance. So, as long as you're in Canada, you're fine.

mrvanwinkles · 2012-07-24, 10:02 AM

The companies that build and maintain these huge networks - whether voice or data networks - have ongoing expenses - for sure.

Infrastructure, building, labour costs, maintenance costs, utility + many other costs.

How else can they afford to pay their business costs ?

Monthly service fees and long distance charges - of course - traditionally.
How else ?

But the question is: What is a fair LD rate today ?

I can recall back during REAL long distance competition, say back in the late 1990's, when there were still many competitive companies around - and real competition happening - Canadian LD rates going down to around 5 or 7 cents a minute.

I think I can get 3 or 5 cents a minute now with a competitive calling card product.

So it seems somewhat OUT OF LINE / too much to me now, to be paying, say, 25 cents a minute (and maybe also extra airtime charges or roaming charges for incoming calls outside my territory), just because I make (or receive) the call on a wireless device or a cellular phone.

Ongoing stuff like "System Access Fees" and "Touch Tone Charges" are just prehistoric relics from the past - which should be legislated out of existance.

( Just some Personal opinions from someone who has also worked / had somewhat of a career in the competitive telephone industry )

[ I just use the calling card alot - all over - at 3 cents a minute - old school ! ]

llcarlos · 2012-07-24, 06:54 PM

Thanks JamesK. After posting I went back to Rogers site and saw the 6 GB plan with free long distance in Canada. I was all excited and then I realised it was only for LTE phones and we don't have LTE service in Winnipeg.

TorontoColin · 2012-07-24, 07:10 PM

The 6GB plan will also work with Rogers' HSPA and GSM networks. It may not be offered in Manitoba though.

Dr.Dave · 2012-07-24, 08:07 PM

llcarlos, Rogers has full page ads in the Winnipeg Metro for the 6 GB plan. To see one, go to http://metronews.ca/, choose Winnipeg, PRINT EDITION, Archive, July 23, page 2.

JamesK · 2012-07-24, 09:35 PM

Quote:

I was all excited and then I realised it was only for LTE phones and we don't have LTE service in Winnipeg.

I don't have LTE either. My phone is 3G and works fine. Give Rogers a call and see what happens.

Quote:

The 6GB plan will also work with Rogers' HSPA and GSM networks.

6 GB on GSM? Ouch!!!

2012-07-21, 12:04 PM	#17
TorontoColin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Wind Mobile, Rogers Cable, Teksavvy Extreme Cable Posts: 3,229	The touchtone fee might be a candidate for a class action suit, given the SAF precedent. But I believe this was meant to be about domestic long distance on mobile phones. The touchtone fee (or the intricacies of the history of POTS long distance) doesn't apply to mobile devices. __________________ Rules of the Forum \| DHC Help Desk DHC now supports Tapatalk for mobile devices!

2012-07-22, 01:12 PM	#20
Jase88 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kitchener, ON Posts: 4,105	Wayne, there has never been "long distance" charges on IP-based data due to the complexities mentioned by JamesK. Though it wouldn't surprise me if the carriers begin charging everyone for time-of-use data. Offering lower pricing for data during off-peak network times. This data billing scheme already exists for some large wireless data customers who pull data from remote terminals--such as hydro utilities using wireless data networks for their meter data retrieval. __________________ DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct 91-XG & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection

2012-07-24, 07:10 PM	#25
TorontoColin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Wind Mobile, Rogers Cable, Teksavvy Extreme Cable Posts: 3,229	The 6GB plan will also work with Rogers' HSPA and GSM networks. It may not be offered in Manitoba though. __________________ Rules of the Forum \| DHC Help Desk DHC now supports Tapatalk for mobile devices!

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2012-07-21, 11:49 AM	#16
thenewdc Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,308	Another point that nobody mentions is the ridiculous and infamous TouchTone charge Bell still applies to all of it's customers, and they never tell you that they make over $100 million a year in pure profit from that charge alone. This charge is as bad as or even worse than the SAF Fee and the CRTC should look into it.

2012-07-22, 01:15 AM	#18
Wayne Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scarboro Posts: 5,568	How come there is no concept of long distance for data but their is for voice?

2012-07-22, 07:30 AM	#19
JamesK Veteran Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mississauga Posts: 5,039	Actually, there had been long distance for data for many years. The old Telex network worked the same as long distance phone. You paid for time and distance on dial up calls. With leased services, you'd pay for distance and bandwidth. On the other hand, it'd be a lot more difficult to charge long distance with the Internet, as they'd have to examine every packet, figure out the distance, total the cost etc. It'd be a book keeping nightmare. So, it's just easier to have flat rate service. Long distance phone has also reached the point of flat rate for any distance within the country. Earlier packet switched networks, based on X.25 and frame relay, were often configured as virtual circuits, between points A & B, and charged according to distance and amount of data.

2012-07-23, 11:41 AM	#21
llcarlos Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 257	I'm confused. Rogers offers unlimited calls to 5 or 10 numbers across Canada but in the fine print it says it does not include long distsance charges. Yet the rogers salesperson said it included long distance charges. Which statement should I believe?

2012-07-23, 12:21 PM	#22
JamesK Veteran Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mississauga Posts: 5,039	^^^^ In the info about that 6 GB super plan, it days that MY10 doesn't cover international long distance. So, as long as you're in Canada, you're fine.

2012-07-24, 10:02 AM	#23
mrvanwinkles Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Eastern Ontario (Ottawa/Kingston) Posts: 1,372	The companies that build and maintain these huge networks - whether voice or data networks - have ongoing expenses - for sure. Infrastructure, building, labour costs, maintenance costs, utility + many other costs. How else can they afford to pay their business costs ? Monthly service fees and long distance charges - of course - traditionally. How else ? But the question is: What is a fair LD rate today ? I can recall back during REAL long distance competition, say back in the late 1990's, when there were still many competitive companies around - and real competition happening - Canadian LD rates going down to around 5 or 7 cents a minute. I think I can get 3 or 5 cents a minute now with a competitive calling card product. So it seems somewhat OUT OF LINE / too much to me now, to be paying, say, 25 cents a minute (and maybe also extra airtime charges or roaming charges for incoming calls outside my territory), just because I make (or receive) the call on a wireless device or a cellular phone. Ongoing stuff like "System Access Fees" and "Touch Tone Charges" are just prehistoric relics from the past - which should be legislated out of existance. ( Just some Personal opinions from someone who has also worked / had somewhat of a career in the competitive telephone industry ) [ I just use the calling card alot - all over - at 3 cents a minute - old school ! ]

2012-07-24, 06:54 PM	#24
llcarlos Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 257	Thanks JamesK. After posting I went back to Rogers site and saw the 6 GB plan with free long distance in Canada. I was all excited and then I realised it was only for LTE phones and we don't have LTE service in Winnipeg.

2012-07-24, 08:07 PM	#26
Dr.Dave Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 4,696	llcarlos, Rogers has full page ads in the Winnipeg Metro for the 6 GB plan. To see one, go to http://metronews.ca/, choose Winnipeg, PRINT EDITION, Archive, July 23, page 2.