ON - Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Cambridge, Bruce Peninsula

[Jase88]

No change for me on CITY Woodstock. Same strength that it's been since the beginning of the spring.

We had some significant rain recently. I would check connections. And if your antenna is outdoors, make sure it hasn't filled with water in the elements, and is otherwise dry at the connections, etc.

[gculley]

I'm in the waterloo area, located in Heidelberg and I can't figure out one thing. My TVFool report suggests that CIII in Toronto (41.1) should be slightly stronger than CBC Toronto (20.1), but I'm not seeing this at all. I'm finding that CIII is about 9dbm weaker, even though its transmitter is almost 3x more powerful than CBC's.

I think that the CIII station is also located on the CN Tower, but I'm not sure. If it's not, that may explain my findings.

I have a CM4228HD that I tried straight out of the box and as well as with the RF Combiner modification, but nothing seems to improve reception of this channel. The antenna is up 30' with a CM7777 preamp.

My issue is that I can't get 100% reliable reception of CIII. I'd normally go to channel 6 to watch it but the antenna works so poorly for low-VHF that I can't get a reliable lock on the signal.) CIII Toronto generally comes in with about 7dbm of headroom (around 65% on my HDHomerun during the day)before I lose my lock on it.

Has anyone else noticed that CIII ch. 41 is weaker than CBC? Any thoughts on why?

[Jase88]

I don't believe CIII's (Global channel 41) is 3x the power of CBC's (channel 20).

According to HDTV Primer, the 4228's gain at channel 20 and channel 40 is about the same.

Without comparing technical parameters between the two transmitters (HAAT, ERP, etc), you need to remember that these two channels have different propagation characteristics.

For example, let's assume both stations are transmitting with the same ERP and HAAT (Height Above Average Terrain). The channel 20 signal will be receivable further out, as it's lower frequency propagates better.

I would buy or make a decent VHF antenna to receive channel 6. You would also be able to receive channel 10 London (CTV2), CHCH 11 (if you're not already), and possibly channel 9 (CTV) Toronto.

[gculley]

Thanks for the quick reply Jase.

I find that the CM4228HD is able to get CHCH as well as CFPL, so I'm happy about that. Their signal strength is around 80%, but signal quality is only around 60% in part because of CKCO being so close (my amp overloads, but I find that adding a notch filter takes away a bit too much from channels 10 and 11). I found that the RF combiner mod really didn't help anything except perhaps a couple more db at channel 51 (which is still too weak to be of any use anyway).

I understand that Global has submitted an application to move channel 6 to UHF channel 14, so it may not be worth putting up a separate VHF antenna, we'll just have to wait for the switch I guess.

I was just curious as to why CIII was so much weaker when it is transmitting 100kw according to all data I can find. I guess that the signal propogation really changes a LOT as the frequency goes up.

Thanks again for your input!

[Jase88]

Global has applied to change the channel 6 Ottawa transmitter to channel 14. I'm not aware of any requests to change the channel of the Paris transmitter.

[rob50312]

CBLT Toronto is supposed to be at 106kw while Global Toronto is at 100kw.TV fool has CBLT at the older lower power figure.Given that CBLT is at a lower frequency it should be stronger then Global at that distance plus less cable loss.Also each station is using a different broadcast antenna at a slightly different height.

[gculley]

Thanks for the info guys, that clears a lot of things up. I went back and checked and you're right Jase, the application is for Ottawa, not Paris. Bummer...looks like I might be purchasing a CM Stealth antenna for VHF.

Thanks also for the info on CBLT Rob, that explains everything. It looks like TVFool needs updating to show CBLT as +13dbm instead of 0dbm for my area and antenna height (as that appears to be what I'm getting). CIII also appears to be at the top of the tower, but I'm wondering if it's a little directional (north-south). No matter, it's at least starting to make sense to me now.

[rolaids]

i picked up a clearstream2 antenna hoping to get one or two channels, but i'm unable to pick up ANYTHING--not even anything that resembles a tv channel. i've tried two tvs and scanning gets me zero channels on both sets and flipping through the channels shows only snow. i've aimed it in different directions and...nothing. any hints/tips for a n00b?

edit: tried on a third tv and nothing. i've played with it on the ground floor and the second floor of my house to no avail.

[gculley]

Make sure that your TVs have a digital (ATSC) tuner in them. Older TVs (I'd say older than 5 years) won't have that. All broadcasts are digital now. If you only have older TVs, then you probably need to buy an ATSC converter box (about 50 bucks).

How many feet of cable are you using to connect the antenna to your TV? If you are using more than 20' of cable, then I'd recommend putting a pre-amplifier on the antenna.

It sounds like your antenna is indoors. That REALLY ruins its performance, particularly for UHF. I found that my Channel Master 4228HD could barely get our local station (and I can see the tower from my window) when I was running tests on our main floor. Get the antenna outside if you can. If you must keep it indoors, then put it in the attic, but you'll only be good for stations that are around 25 miles away.

[stampeder]

rolaids, please follow all the steps in the following thread so that we can get as much info as possible in order to give you the best advice:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=125161

[rolaids]

my tvs all have atsc tuners in them. i tried with as little as six feet of cable with no results. you are correct, i was trying the antenna indoors. i bought into the marketing hype of having the antenna indoors. i saw promo pictures of the antenna elegantly placed in someone's living room, i just assumed it would actually work. i did try with it in a window with no results, but will try outside today.

here is my tv fool report. any pointing help for my clearstream2 would be appreciated. i have a compass on my phone if that helps. thank you in advance for any suggestions or advice.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1349e13079e326

[stampeder]

Waiting for your location, please... Nearest major street corner will do.

[ota_canuck]

rolaids,

I will assume you are located in the heart [dip] of Guelph?

Even indoors you should be able to get a shot at channels 6, 13, 28, so, either you have not configured your TV to scan for 'air' channels or your indoor location [building structure] is totally blocking all signals.

Here's a tvfool for Guelph with a 30ft outdoor antenna height:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...134906e6642401

You'd need your antenna mounted outdoor as high a possible and a rotor to get the various channels located from 80° to 145°,.. or an antenna that has a wide 65°+ beamwidth range aiming about half way between 80° to 145°.

There are others who have had success in Guelph, so I'd suggest reading through this Guelph thread and see what others have done in the Guelph area to achieve good reception.

[rolaids]

sorry, i'm at metcalfe and eramosa, which, yes, is right in the "dip". i hadn't thought about that, but i suppose that's why i'm able to get nothing. i tried the antenna outdoors around ground level but with no success, so i understand now why i'd need a very high antenna height. unfortunately, my wife has already said that isn't going to happen, so i guess i'm S-O-L.

[bzant]

I'm in Guelph. Just recently installed a 4228HD pointing at approximately 125 degrees magnetic and a Winegard 8700 preamp, no splitters in the setup either. I'm pretty happy with the result.

I currently always receive these channels, (with no breakups ever)

2.1 WGRZ-HD
2.2 WGRZ-AT
4.1 WIVB-HD
5.1 CBLT-DT
6.1 CIII-HD
6.2 CIII-SD
7.1 WKBW-HD
9.1 CFTO-HD
11.1 CHCH-DT
13.1 CKCO
17.1 WNED-HD
17.2 WNED-SD
17.3 WNED-HT
19.1 TVO
23.1 WLNO-HD
25.1 CBLFT-D
26.1 WNYB-SD
26.2 WNYB-HD
26.3 WNYBSD2
26.4 WNYBSD3
28.1 TVO
31.1 Citytv
36.1 CITS-HD
41.1 CIII-HD
41.2 CIII-SD
47.1 CFMT
57.1 CITYTV

I often receive, (night time)

29.1 WUTV-HD
49.1 WNYO-HD
49.2 Cool TV
51.1 ION
51.2 QUBO
51.3 IONlife
54.1 WQLN-HD
54.2 WQLN-S1
54.3 WQLN-S2
66.1 WFXP-DT
69.1 CJMT

I also sometimes get, during tropo conditions and other,

3.1 WKYC-HD
3.2 WXPLUS
5.1 WEWS-HD (over powers CBC)
5.2 WEWSLWN
12.1 WICU-HD
12.2 WBEP
12.3 WSEE
24.1 WJET
55.1 WBNX-HD
55.2 WBNX-SD
67.1 WBBZ
67.2 THISTV
67.3 METV
67.4 DAYSTAR