Status of ATSC-MH (Mobile) Stations in Canada - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

cxgy · 2012-06-19, 08:50 PM

The following stations are now testing ATSC-MH...

CBLFT-DT ch 25 Toronto has " 5.2 CBC E "
CKCO-DT ch 13 Kitchener has " 13.1 CTV-1 "

Threshold of reception is lower than regular ATSC.

majortom · 2012-06-19, 08:59 PM

Sweet, thanks I will check this out...

Edit: Sure enough. Pretty cool...

stampeder · 2012-06-19, 09:54 PM

Thanks for the heads up, cxgy, this is great news.

I've moved this announcement into it's own thread here so that others can give their results and also tip us off about the status of any other ATSC-MH broadcasts happening in Canada.

If ATSC-MH becomes commonplace in Canada we can go back to just using the existing Station Status threads, but for now, being that this is so new and undergoing testing, we'll keep tabs on the status here.

All technical discussion of the ATSC-MH standard continues in the following pre-existing thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=63639

majortom · 2012-06-19, 10:02 PM

Seems that recording is disabled. Dunno if that's a function of Wintv while tuned to an ATSC-MH channel, or if it's disabled by the stream. It will record normal ATSC obviously. Currently WinTV is the only SW I have installed here capable of playing with this tuner (Hauppauge Aero-M) in ATSC-MH mode so no way to tell on this end.

stampeder · 2012-06-19, 10:06 PM

Yikes, are they implementing the evil Broadcast Flag?

I sure hope it's just a glitch or some other cause. Hopefully someone can take a TSReader sample and check on that. If my worst fear is confirmed this use of it may not be legal but I would definitely want to ask Professor Michael Geist for his opinion on that.

majortom · 2012-06-19, 10:13 PM

Don't know.
Maybe someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of a TsReader Source capable of tuning the MH signal (yet). When ya tune with the standard ATSC source, that's what you'll get. The stream as demodulated in standard ATSC 8VSB mode. In other words it's transparent to the normal ATSC signal.

I may have to check up on the linux developers again to see if they made any more progress on this device adding MH support in linux. Far as I know the guts are in the kernel now, but SW tools have yet to be written to go along with it. Scanning, zapping and such have to do their piece as well.

stampeder · 2012-06-19, 10:15 PM

Ah... good info. If anyone has a solution to dumping ATSC M/H streams for analysis it would be appreciated.

Jase88 · 2012-06-19, 11:17 PM

Okay, now I've got to go get an ATSC mobile device to test....as my local station is testing out mobile!

ota_canuck · 2012-06-20, 12:50 AM

Is there any sites like tvfool or rabbitears that tracks M/H availability broadcast areas?

majortom · 2012-06-20, 01:42 AM

rabbitears has a good way of looking for where the MH stations are. probably the only place.
And likely not enough yet to warrant a tvfool like application.

cxgy · 2012-06-20, 08:57 AM

WinTV has tons of ATSC-MH stream info in its log.

After doing an ATSC-MH Scan ... goto ...

Settings - Advanced Options - Logs - Open Logs Directory - log.txt

ota_canuck · 2012-06-20, 09:40 AM

So, 'WinTV compatable' devices do or will have an application to check data that relates to coverage area and mobile broadcast sources? I don't have a handheld yet, but I was thinking of buying a mobile/handheld for my daughter. There seems to be some things that you'd have to look for when buying a handheld device though such as WinTV, recordability options, etc..

Stampeder mentioned Broadcast flagging. From what I've read so far, some units may not have "broadcast flagging' capability and thus they must abide by the ATSC M/H Rules 'flag all' and won't be able to record at all.

CHCH has not announced a date yet, other than to say "coming in the future". Hopefully many more free mobile broadcasts will come and without the burden of having to subscribe to another greedy third party provider. To me, having the CHCH local news source at hand is the greatest asset of having a mobile handheld.

cxgy · 2012-06-20, 10:05 AM

One thing that's disconcerting in the US is that the NBC, Fox, Qubo, Telemundo & Univision mobile TV feeds are ENCRYPTED. You can only view the signal using a "Dyle TV" app on certain handheld devices.

Trip · 2012-06-20, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stampeder

Ah... good info. If anyone has a solution to dumping ATSC M/H streams for analysis it would be appreciated.

I have the only M/H dump tool that I know of, and I'm not allowed to distribute it. What I can do, though, is be sent full transport stream captures, approximately 50MB in size, and feed it through the software and send back the output.

For example, here's output from WDIV in Detroit back in August 2011. http://www.rabbitears.info/atscinfo/53114-0_0.htm

I list a lot of the details in the main RabbitEars listings, plus there is this page: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=atscmh

- Trip

cxgy · 2012-06-20, 11:06 AM

Don't forget that the Win TV also does an info dump, as I mentioned in #11 above.

2012-06-19, 08:59 PM	#2
majortom Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,558	Sweet, thanks I will check this out... Edit: Sure enough. Pretty cool... __________________ uhf/vhf combo rotor chimney mount homebrew vhf hi hpf ap-8700 preamp 4way split lg lcd dtt901 pctuner mythtv Last edited by majortom; 2012-06-19 at 09:26 PM. Reason: add screen capture

2012-06-19, 09:54 PM	#3
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Thanks for the heads up, cxgy, this is great news. I've moved this announcement into it's own thread here so that others can give their results and also tip us off about the status of any other ATSC-MH broadcasts happening in Canada. If ATSC-MH becomes commonplace in Canada we can go back to just using the existing Station Status threads, but for now, being that this is so new and undergoing testing, we'll keep tabs on the status here. All technical discussion of the ATSC-MH standard continues in the following pre-existing thread: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=63639 __________________ New To OTA? OTA FAQ & Knowledge Base OTA Antenna Chart 8.2 Last edited by stampeder; 2012-06-25 at 10:06 PM.

2012-06-19, 10:02 PM	#4
majortom Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,558	Recording Disabled? Seems that recording is disabled. Dunno if that's a function of Wintv while tuned to an ATSC-MH channel, or if it's disabled by the stream. It will record normal ATSC obviously. Currently WinTV is the only SW I have installed here capable of playing with this tuner (Hauppauge Aero-M) in ATSC-MH mode so no way to tell on this end. __________________ uhf/vhf combo rotor chimney mount homebrew vhf hi hpf ap-8700 preamp 4way split lg lcd dtt901 pctuner mythtv Last edited by majortom; 2012-06-19 at 10:16 PM. Reason: specify tuner

2012-06-19, 10:13 PM	#6
majortom Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,558	Don't know. Maybe someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of a TsReader Source capable of tuning the MH signal (yet). When ya tune with the standard ATSC source, that's what you'll get. The stream as demodulated in standard ATSC 8VSB mode. In other words it's transparent to the normal ATSC signal. I may have to check up on the linux developers again to see if they made any more progress on this device adding MH support in linux. Far as I know the guts are in the kernel now, but SW tools have yet to be written to go along with it. Scanning, zapping and such have to do their piece as well. __________________ uhf/vhf combo rotor chimney mount homebrew vhf hi hpf ap-8700 preamp 4way split lg lcd dtt901 pctuner mythtv

2012-06-19, 11:17 PM	#8
Jase88 Moderator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kitchener, ON Posts: 4,104	Okay, now I've got to go get an ATSC mobile device to test....as my local station is testing out mobile! __________________ DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct 91-XG & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection

2012-06-19, 08:50 PM	#1
cxgy Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 16	Status of ATSC-MH (Mobile) Stations in Canada The following stations are now testing ATSC-MH... CBLFT-DT ch 25 Toronto has " 5.2 CBC E " CKCO-DT ch 13 Kitchener has " 13.1 CTV-1 " Threshold of reception is lower than regular ATSC.

2012-06-19, 10:06 PM	#5
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Yikes, are they implementing the evil Broadcast Flag? I sure hope it's just a glitch or some other cause. Hopefully someone can take a TSReader sample and check on that. If my worst fear is confirmed this use of it may not be legal but I would definitely want to ask Professor Michael Geist for his opinion on that.

2012-06-19, 10:15 PM	#7
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Ah... good info. If anyone has a solution to dumping ATSC M/H streams for analysis it would be appreciated.

2012-06-20, 12:50 AM	#9
ota_canuck Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dunnville, Ontario on the Grand River, North shore Lake Erie Posts: 2,405	Is there any sites like tvfool or rabbitears that tracks M/H availability broadcast areas? __________________ 3D SSH III with ZZ4 refl. http://imageshack.us/user/jmsdigital

2012-06-20, 01:42 AM	#10
majortom Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,558	rabbitears has a good way of looking for where the MH stations are. probably the only place. And likely not enough yet to warrant a tvfool like application. __________________ uhf/vhf combo rotor chimney mount homebrew vhf hi hpf ap-8700 preamp 4way split lg lcd dtt901 pctuner mythtv

2012-06-20, 08:57 AM	#11
cxgy Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 16	WinTV has tons of ATSC-MH stream info in its log. After doing an ATSC-MH Scan ... goto ... Settings - Advanced Options - Logs - Open Logs Directory - log.txt

2012-06-20, 09:40 AM	#12
ota_canuck Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dunnville, Ontario on the Grand River, North shore Lake Erie Posts: 2,405	Yippee,.. we're on the horizon of the mobile future! So, 'WinTV compatable' devices do or will have an application to check data that relates to coverage area and mobile broadcast sources? I don't have a handheld yet, but I was thinking of buying a mobile/handheld for my daughter. There seems to be some things that you'd have to look for when buying a handheld device though such as WinTV, recordability options, etc.. Stampeder mentioned Broadcast flagging. From what I've read so far, some units may not have "broadcast flagging' capability and thus they must abide by the ATSC M/H Rules 'flag all' and won't be able to record at all. CHCH has not announced a date yet, other than to say "coming in the future". Hopefully many more free mobile broadcasts will come and without the burden of having to subscribe to another greedy third party provider. To me, having the CHCH local news source at hand is the greatest asset of having a mobile handheld. __________________ 3D SSH III with ZZ4 refl. http://imageshack.us/user/jmsdigital

2012-06-20, 10:05 AM	#13
cxgy Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 16	One thing that's disconcerting in the US is that the NBC, Fox, Qubo, Telemundo & Univision mobile TV feeds are ENCRYPTED. You can only view the signal using a "Dyle TV" app on certain handheld devices.

2012-06-20, 11:06 AM	#15
cxgy Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 16	Don't forget that the Win TV also does an info dump, as I mentioned in #11 above. Last edited by stampeder; 2012-06-20 at 02:25 PM. Reason: quote of previous post removed as per Rules

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