Media Room 2.1: Release Date, Features, Wish List?(now 2.1.2295) - Page 13 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

ae_collector · 2012-05-21, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z24man

From what I found AT&T uverse system in US. May have same problems crushed black levels also with mediaroom 2.+

That is probably the BEST NEWS going for people concerned about a potential black levels problem with Optik TV. That would seem to indicate that it isn't directly a Telus problem and with the much larger AT&T having this problem as well, a lot more presure can be put onto Microsoft to find a fix if that is indeed the source of the problem.

I went back looking for the post here on this forum where Mediaroom 2.0 was first deployed by Telus. I keep seeing statements on here that it has been over 2 years since the black level problem appeared and I believe that it was introduced with the upgrade to Mediaroom V2.0. So here's the answer to my question. Feb 16, 2011. Still a long time, 15 months but not 2 years. (May be 2 years before it is fixed though!)

http://digitalhome.ca/forum/showthre...136856&page=15

Barry N · 2012-05-22, 10:15 AM

I was told that one of the problems that the 2.1 update would solve is my ongoing problem of 'series' recording. I have my pvr set up to record a late night show that is on 5 days a week. Well, my system updated to 2.1 but my recording of these show still miss a few days each week. They will record Mon-Wed maybe ,then miss Thursday and then start recording maybe on Friday or maybe not. Each week is different. Each time I mention this to a tech support person they send a tech out who is told to replace the pvr and yet the problem continues. TELUS refuses to acknowledge that the problem is somewhere in the system.

ae_collector · 2012-05-22, 12:13 PM

I have never had a problem like that. Is it related to one specific channel or even just he one particular program? For the most part I always record new and repeat occurences of a show, not just new episodes only. I do record new only with Jay Leno and the PVR seems to get it right every time.

BGY11 · 2012-05-22, 12:57 PM

Barry: What show is it, and when is it set to record? If I have the channel, I'll try and do a series recording as well to see if I get the issue.

Barry N · 2012-05-22, 02:30 PM

The show in question is The Late Show with David Letterman. It is on CBS Seattle [ channel 19 in Edmonton ]. It is on @ 12:35 a.m.M.S.T from Tuesday - Saturday. Yes ae_collector it seems to be CBS Seattle on the Edmonton Optik system.

BGY11 · 2012-05-22, 05:37 PM

OK.

Just to clarify, what are the settings you have configured for the series recording?

scorpion · 2012-05-22, 05:55 PM

Barry N.....go into your guide and check each day Letterman is to record. I did this and noticed that on Thursday the show has an incorrect date. If your settings are set to record new episodes only and since this date is wrong, the show will not record. This is not Telus's fault but whoever they get the guide info from. I had the exact same issue with another program and had to set it to record new and repeats just so I wouldn't miss any. Hope this helps.

ae_collector · 2012-05-22, 06:53 PM

I wonder if there is any chance that the date error is creeping in occasionally from the fact that he is recording a west coast channel with a start time of 23:35 PST but he is in MST so the record start date is actually the next day.

scorpion · 2012-05-22, 07:15 PM

ae_collector.....that would make sense and I'm sure it's happened before. Though on the Letterman issue.....this Thursday (May 24th) the episode is showing that it is a May 2nd show. I doubt it is a repeat but rather just a guide error.

merve04 · 2012-05-22, 07:35 PM

Have you ever thought of recording the earlier feed on the east coast channel? See if that causes an issue or not? Also it is memorial day coming up, heck tried watching Leno last night and it was a repeat?!?!

Barry N · 2012-05-24, 10:13 AM

Thanks for everyone's help & suggestions. I will continue to monitor it on a daily basis,and correct as need be.

CordBay · 2012-05-25, 12:23 PM

Tried the recently updated remote SD 330 SA Silver box last night.
Failed to play recorded programmes from PVR correctly.
Kept going into pause/freezing both video and audio playing both HD and SD recordings.
Come to the conclusion that this a rubbish box foisted upon me last fall.
Will call Telus to fix or replace same rubbish SA silver box ASAP.

We are not amused.

Black 330 box works satisfactorily.

z24man · 2012-05-29, 02:16 AM

I switched back to telus sat tv right now have both optik and telus sat running. Can see the picture differance between optik and telus sat tv. Showing the same channels both boxes on the same tv. Fliping between the hd inputs from the two systems. Cant wait for telus any longer to fix the black level bug....

LeafsFan91 · 2012-05-29, 04:15 AM

What I'm beginning to think is this isn't a 'black level' problem. I compared the OTA and Telus videos and as I said before the contrast/sharpness for all colours is less. Which is understandable since it's compressed and OTA isn't.

BEWARE MATH! The people who hate math should look away.

There is no 'black level' flag as someone pointed out in MPEG compression. If that was the case Telus would just switch it on. What MPEG compression does is it does a DCT (Discrete cosine transform), which is like (not the same though) as a Discrete Fourier or Z transform (discrete Laplace transform). If you know your math you'd know that puts the image in the frequency domain.

Once the image is in the frequency domain you can compress it. You compress it by either getting rid of some of the high frequencies and/or low frequencies. MPEG, I believe, will only get rid of the high frequencies. The high frequencies are the sharpness, so if you lop out (or compress as this will decrease the size of the image) some of sharpness will decrease.

The more of the high frequencies you get rid of the less the size and the less sharp the image.

Just google 'low pass filter picture' for examples. A good one is this http://www.cyanogen.com/help/maximdl..._Filtering.htm I don't think it's as dramatic as that but you get the picture.

A good example is if an image is 50% white on the left and 50% black of the right and you get rid of a lot of high frequencies the image will look grey and only one colour. IE the average.

That's what I think is happening. Telus decided to save bandwidth so they over compressed their image thus losing the sharpness. If this happened during the same time that Telus starting going from 2HD/1SD streams allowed to 3HD/1SD this would make a lot more sense.

At least that's what I think.

Dr.Dave · 2012-05-29, 10:00 AM

@LeafsFan91, OTA is compressed using a subset of MPEG-2 for ATSC. Telus uses MPEG-4 to compress its signal which uses a number of advanced mathematical techniques and requires a lot more processing. However, modern MPEG-4 compression requires about half the bandwidth to produce comparable quality to the MPEG-2 compression used in OTA. Much of the compression is achieved by just transmitting the differences from frame to frame. There are many sources on the internet that discuss the mathematics involved in MPEG-4.

Telus went to VDSL2 to increase the line speed and the number of streams they could handle. They also installed more nodes to decrease the distance from the node to the user and also increase the speed. Telus didn't change the size of the stream at the time. Here is a discussion on VDSL2:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=126569

2012-05-22, 10:15 AM	#182
Barry N Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Edmonton Posts: 144	The problems continue I was told that one of the problems that the 2.1 update would solve is my ongoing problem of 'series' recording. I have my pvr set up to record a late night show that is on 5 days a week. Well, my system updated to 2.1 but my recording of these show still miss a few days each week. They will record Mon-Wed maybe ,then miss Thursday and then start recording maybe on Friday or maybe not. Each week is different. Each time I mention this to a tech support person they send a tech out who is told to replace the pvr and yet the problem continues. TELUS refuses to acknowledge that the problem is somewhere in the system. __________________ I've learned a lot from my mistakes. I'm thinking of making some more.

2012-05-22, 12:13 PM	#183
ae_collector Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Coquitlam BC Posts: 633	I have never had a problem like that. Is it related to one specific channel or even just he one particular program? For the most part I always record new and repeat occurences of a show, not just new episodes only. I do record new only with Jay Leno and the PVR seems to get it right every time. __________________ -- TELUS Employee but I Don't Speak for TELUS -- Last edited by ae_collector; 2012-05-22 at 06:45 PM. Reason: clarification

2012-05-22, 02:30 PM	#185
Barry N Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Edmonton Posts: 144	The show in question is The Late Show with David Letterman. It is on CBS Seattle [ channel 19 in Edmonton ]. It is on @ 12:35 a.m.M.S.T from Tuesday - Saturday. Yes ae_collector it seems to be CBS Seattle on the Edmonton Optik system. __________________ I've learned a lot from my mistakes. I'm thinking of making some more.

2012-05-22, 06:53 PM	#188
ae_collector Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Coquitlam BC Posts: 633	I wonder if there is any chance that the date error is creeping in occasionally from the fact that he is recording a west coast channel with a start time of 23:35 PST but he is in MST so the record start date is actually the next day. __________________ -- TELUS Employee but I Don't Speak for TELUS --

2012-05-22, 07:35 PM	#190
merve04 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edmonton, AB Posts: 967	Have you ever thought of recording the earlier feed on the east coast channel? See if that causes an issue or not? Also it is memorial day coming up, heck tried watching Leno last night and it was a repeat?!?! __________________ Panasonic PT-AE4000\|Pioneer VSX-1021K\|Soundstage STAGE3D4, STAGE3D2C, STAGE3D2, Velodyne VDR-12\|Sony BDP-S350\|WDTV Live Plus\|Telus CIS430\|Harmony One LG 55LE5500\|H\K AVR 347\|Yamaha NS-8390\|Polk Audio PSW-10\|Samsung BD-P1600\|WDTV Live\|Telus CIS330\|Harmony 600 LG 42LC7D\|ASUS O'Play\|Telus CIS330\|Harmony 600 LG 32LS3400\|Telus CIS330

2012-05-22, 12:57 PM	#184
BGY11 Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Calgary AB Posts: 3,183	Barry: What show is it, and when is it set to record? If I have the channel, I'll try and do a series recording as well to see if I get the issue.

2012-05-22, 05:37 PM	#186
BGY11 Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Calgary AB Posts: 3,183	OK. Just to clarify, what are the settings you have configured for the series recording?

2012-05-22, 05:55 PM	#187
scorpion Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Victoria B.C., Canada Posts: 84	Barry N.....go into your guide and check each day Letterman is to record. I did this and noticed that on Thursday the show has an incorrect date. If your settings are set to record new episodes only and since this date is wrong, the show will not record. This is not Telus's fault but whoever they get the guide info from. I had the exact same issue with another program and had to set it to record new and repeats just so I wouldn't miss any. Hope this helps.

2012-05-22, 07:15 PM	#189
scorpion Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Victoria B.C., Canada Posts: 84	ae_collector.....that would make sense and I'm sure it's happened before. Though on the Letterman issue.....this Thursday (May 24th) the episode is showing that it is a May 2nd show. I doubt it is a repeat but rather just a guide error.

2012-05-24, 10:13 AM	#191
Barry N Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Edmonton Posts: 144	Thanks for everyone's help & suggestions. I will continue to monitor it on a daily basis,and correct as need be. __________________ I've learned a lot from my mistakes. I'm thinking of making some more.

2012-05-25, 12:23 PM	#192
CordBay Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Victoria Posts: 43	Rubbish Silver SA 330 box fails to play recordings. Tried the recently updated remote SD 330 SA Silver box last night. Failed to play recorded programmes from PVR correctly. Kept going into pause/freezing both video and audio playing both HD and SD recordings. Come to the conclusion that this a rubbish box foisted upon me last fall. Will call Telus to fix or replace same rubbish SA silver box ASAP. We are not amused. Black 330 box works satisfactorily.

2012-05-29, 02:16 AM	#193
z24man Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: GVRD Posts: 48	I switched back to telus sat tv right now have both optik and telus sat running. Can see the picture differance between optik and telus sat tv. Showing the same channels both boxes on the same tv. Fliping between the hd inputs from the two systems. Cant wait for telus any longer to fix the black level bug....

2012-05-29, 04:15 AM	#194
LeafsFan91 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 41	What I'm beginning to think is this isn't a 'black level' problem. I compared the OTA and Telus videos and as I said before the contrast/sharpness for all colours is less. Which is understandable since it's compressed and OTA isn't. BEWARE MATH! The people who hate math should look away. There is no 'black level' flag as someone pointed out in MPEG compression. If that was the case Telus would just switch it on. What MPEG compression does is it does a DCT (Discrete cosine transform), which is like (not the same though) as a Discrete Fourier or Z transform (discrete Laplace transform). If you know your math you'd know that puts the image in the frequency domain. Once the image is in the frequency domain you can compress it. You compress it by either getting rid of some of the high frequencies and/or low frequencies. MPEG, I believe, will only get rid of the high frequencies. The high frequencies are the sharpness, so if you lop out (or compress as this will decrease the size of the image) some of sharpness will decrease. The more of the high frequencies you get rid of the less the size and the less sharp the image. Just google 'low pass filter picture' for examples. A good one is this http://www.cyanogen.com/help/maximdl..._Filtering.htm I don't think it's as dramatic as that but you get the picture. A good example is if an image is 50% white on the left and 50% black of the right and you get rid of a lot of high frequencies the image will look grey and only one colour. IE the average. That's what I think is happening. Telus decided to save bandwidth so they over compressed their image thus losing the sharpness. If this happened during the same time that Telus starting going from 2HD/1SD streams allowed to 3HD/1SD this would make a lot more sense. At least that's what I think.

2012-05-29, 10:00 AM	#195
Dr.Dave Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 4,821	@LeafsFan91, OTA is compressed using a subset of MPEG-2 for ATSC. Telus uses MPEG-4 to compress its signal which uses a number of advanced mathematical techniques and requires a lot more processing. However, modern MPEG-4 compression requires about half the bandwidth to produce comparable quality to the MPEG-2 compression used in OTA. Much of the compression is achieved by just transmitting the differences from frame to frame. There are many sources on the internet that discuss the mathematics involved in MPEG-4. Telus went to VDSL2 to increase the line speed and the number of streams they could handle. They also installed more nodes to decrease the distance from the node to the user and also increase the speed. Telus didn't change the size of the stream at the time. Here is a discussion on VDSL2: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=126569

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