BlackBerry 10 Discussion - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

BGY11 · 2012-05-03, 10:16 PM

Now that RIM has given us a sneak-peek at a small piece of the BlackBerry 10 puzzle, it's probably time for a thread to discuss this.

First, a very important fact - especially given the device they handed out to developers this week: While the first BB 10 device is likely to be a touchscreen only unit (possibly similar to the Developer Alpha device), RIM has stated that they are certainly not abandoning the keyboard. They know that one of the primary selling points is the keyboard.

With regards to the OS itself, One thing that immediately caught my eye after seeing the previews from the keynote was how slick the interface looked. I liked the idea of "peeking" at tasks underneath, and it's great to see RIM is promoting that this will be a very multitasking-friendly OS. I also think the on-screen keyboard will work well. Having word suggestions appear between the keys (and only a small swipe away) is brilliant - keeps your eyes focused on the keyboard, rather than the multitude of words appearing above the keys). I think we'll need to actually try this feature out to really see how well it works, but so far it shows promise.

Of course, the big gotcha here is that a good interface is not going to sell BlackBerrys on its own (see: WebOS). The management team at RIM knows that they need developer support, and the overall vibe I'm getting from the BlackBerry World articles seems to indicate that they are really trying to get more developers on board. Most importantly, it seems they want to have a good app lineup when they launch devices running BB 10.

audacity · 2012-05-03, 11:06 PM

RIM is going to have to "pull off a Nintendo" if they want to survive. That is, they're going to have to come up with a feature that nobody currently knows they want, and when people see it them simply must have it (like what Nintendo did with the Wii controller).

If Microsoft is having trouble getting into the smartphone market with Windows Phone, then RIM is probably going to have even more trouble with BlackBerry 10 (since Windows Phone has many advantages over BB10).

BGY11 · 2012-05-04, 07:41 AM

You can't really say that Windows phone has "many advantages" over an unreleased OS. RIM hasn't revealed everything there is to know about BB 10 yet. That said, I will agree that RIM needs to have something unique to set their devices apart from the crowd.

Time will tell whether they can do it, but until devices are out and we have a clearer picture, it's too soon to say whether "the New BlackBerry" will be able to compete with Android, iOS, & Windows Phone. At the very least, when these devices launch, RIM better have a killer marketing campaign. "BeBold" won't cut it here, and I sure hope the new CMO they hire is ready for this challenge.

shabbs · 2012-05-04, 08:48 AM

From the PlayBook thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne

What is the latest on keyboards - will BB10 devices have them or not. If not then I will seriously consider moving to an iPhone as IMHO a keyboard is crucial on my Smartphone. I doubt I would be the only loyal BB user switching if there is no keyboard.

Thorsten Heins has repeatedly said the new BB10 product line of smartphones will include models with physical keyboards, as well as virtual ones. It does look like the very first device they launch will be a full touch. Unfortunately, this has led a lot of media outlets to get confused and interpret this as RIM abandoning the physical keyboard.

The new virtual keyboard certainly looks promising. Will be interesting to give it a spin.

I'm sure RIM would like to launch BB10 on a slew of devices at the same time... full touch and physical keyboard... I guess it will all depend on the readiness of all that hardware and the adoption by the various carriers.

TorontoColin · 2012-05-04, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audacity

If Microsoft is having trouble getting into the smartphone market with Windows Phone, then RIM is probably going to have even more trouble with BlackBerry 10 (since Windows Phone has many advantages over BB10).

RIM has the advantage of a still significant install base though, which Windows Mobile didn't really have by the time WP7 was released.

rob1 · 2012-05-04, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoColin

RIM has the advantage of a still significant install base though, which Windows Mobile didn't really have by the time WP7 was released.

Only if those users switch....

The current install based is on the older OS that nobody ready wants anymore.

Even if BB10 is great - alot of those users are locked into 2-3 year contracts - so unless they are willing to spend $500 + on a new phone - it may be to late.

Cheers

audacity · 2012-05-04, 03:58 PM

Quote:

You can't really say that Windows phone has "many advantages" over an unreleased OS. RIM hasn't revealed everything there is to know about BB 10 yet. That said, I will agree that RIM needs to have something unique to set their devices apart from the crowd.

Windows Phone has the advantage of being connected with the overwhelmingly dominant desktop operating system, and the technology foundations are superior to the Java platform on which RIM's software is based. I won't go into details about "why Java sucks", but suffice to say that it does. Especially as the platform dies a slow death under the command of Larry Ellison as developers move elsewhere. Java will continue, but it will be a legacy technology that is being strangled by a company that is intent on squeezing every drop of profit out of the platform it can.

Further, Windows Phone has the advantage of being available for use by any hardware vendor who wishes to implement it. While RIM could potentially license their BB10 OS to other vendors it is very unlikely to be taken seriously. Nokia would never have partnered with Microsoft if Microsoft also made handsets. It is for this same reason why no handset maker will enter pay for a BB10 software license. Especially since the software stack on RIM for the past few years has been a liability, not an asset.

I could bad information and RIM could decide that they're no longer going to be producing handsets and just licensing their platform, and BB10 may have moved away from Java. I don't believe this is the case, though.

99semaj · 2012-05-07, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audacity

Windows Phone has the advantage of being connected with the overwhelmingly dominant desktop operating system...

I would say that WP should have had that advantage, but MS failed to leverage it into anything marketable.

Lets see if they do better with Win8. Windows 7 marked the end of a decade-long streak of mismanagement, so I think there might be hope yet.

JohnnyCanuck · 2012-05-07, 02:42 PM

For those of us with a Playbook, I think we've been playing with what amounts to an early beta of BB10. It is a nice OS with lots of potential. Better or worse from a consumer standpoint than iOS or ICS? Not sure ... but as a turnaround point for RIM, it has real potential.

RIM still has the benefit of providing the best enterprise back end. With mobile fusion able to support BYOD in the workplace, the security and bandwidth benefits or RIM's servers is still a large advantage. Merge the strides forward in BB10 with that advantage and I don't think that RIM needs a "Nintendo" to survive. They need a functional phone that balances the needs of a business user with some of the bells/whistles/customizations that Apple and Google provide.

Wayne · 2012-05-07, 09:18 PM

RIM still has a strong advantage with having excellent keyboards on their devices. If you need a smartphone for phone and email than a BB is still your best bet. But when it comes to everything else the BB is, IMHO, vastly inferior to an iPhone or android. For me the best solution is a BB plus an iPad and in the financial community (at least in Canada, US and UK) RIM still has a market share of well in excess of 50%. But if RIM wants together rid of the keyboard then many of these users, me included, will jump ship.

Costa · 2012-05-08, 05:43 AM

RIM has a lot more to bring with BB10, than just wireless handsets. They discussed licensing, not for other hardware manufacturers, but for other types of services and fields. The Playbook installed in that Chatham-Kent police vehicle is one, being used in the same way as the QNX Porche.

http://bizblog.blackberry.com/2012/0...ok-police-car/

asif9t9 · 2012-05-10, 07:36 PM

If RIM wants to succeed, they have to keep the keyboard, but also, they need to get more apps. They need every hot app that comes out to also have a BB version. Whether that's technically possible to make happen, I don't know, but people want their phones to do more that make call and check emails (which the BB does so well).

Costa · 2012-05-13, 05:16 AM

Yeah; I was sold on the first BB10 phone, but I'm not sure anymore now. Nothing beats a physical keyboard, even with gesture support.

audacity · 2012-05-13, 12:05 PM

I'm not dismissing the advantages of a physical keyboard, but is that advantage so big that it could keep RIM competitive in the face of all their other technological disadvantages?

I mean, if you want a physical keyboard what is to stop you from buying a Android phone with a physical keyboard?

TorontoColin · 2012-05-13, 12:31 PM

Having used a handful of Androids with keyboards, they just don't compare to a Blackberry keyboard. Also, the number of premium Android devices with keyboards at this point is almost none.

2012-05-03, 10:16 PM	#1
BGY11 Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Calgary AB Posts: 3,165	BlackBerry 10 Discussion Now that RIM has given us a sneak-peek at a small piece of the BlackBerry 10 puzzle, it's probably time for a thread to discuss this. First, a very important fact - especially given the device they handed out to developers this week: While the first BB 10 device is likely to be a touchscreen only unit (possibly similar to the Developer Alpha device), RIM has stated that they are certainly not abandoning the keyboard. They know that one of the primary selling points is the keyboard. With regards to the OS itself, One thing that immediately caught my eye after seeing the previews from the keynote was how slick the interface looked. I liked the idea of "peeking" at tasks underneath, and it's great to see RIM is promoting that this will be a very multitasking-friendly OS. I also think the on-screen keyboard will work well. Having word suggestions appear between the keys (and only a small swipe away) is brilliant - keeps your eyes focused on the keyboard, rather than the multitude of words appearing above the keys). I think we'll need to actually try this feature out to really see how well it works, but so far it shows promise. Of course, the big gotcha here is that a good interface is not going to sell BlackBerrys on its own (see: WebOS). The management team at RIM knows that they need developer support, and the overall vibe I'm getting from the BlackBerry World articles seems to indicate that they are really trying to get more developers on board. Most importantly, it seems they want to have a good app lineup when they launch devices running BB 10.

2012-05-08, 05:43 AM	#11
Costa Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 520	RIM has a lot more to bring with BB10, than just wireless handsets. They discussed licensing, not for other hardware manufacturers, but for other types of services and fields. The Playbook installed in that Chatham-Kent police vehicle is one, being used in the same way as the QNX Porche. http://bizblog.blackberry.com/2012/0...ok-police-car/ __________________ Everything

2012-05-13, 05:16 AM	#13
Costa Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 520	Yeah; I was sold on the first BB10 phone, but I'm not sure anymore now. Nothing beats a physical keyboard, even with gesture support. __________________ Everything

2012-05-13, 12:31 PM	#15
TorontoColin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Wind Mobile, Rogers Cable, Teksavvy Extreme Cable Posts: 3,229	Having used a handful of Androids with keyboards, they just don't compare to a Blackberry keyboard. Also, the number of premium Android devices with keyboards at this point is almost none. __________________ Rules of the Forum \| DHC Help Desk DHC now supports Tapatalk for mobile devices!

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2012-05-03, 11:06 PM	#2
audacity Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 1,803	RIM is going to have to "pull off a Nintendo" if they want to survive. That is, they're going to have to come up with a feature that nobody currently knows they want, and when people see it them simply must have it (like what Nintendo did with the Wii controller). If Microsoft is having trouble getting into the smartphone market with Windows Phone, then RIM is probably going to have even more trouble with BlackBerry 10 (since Windows Phone has many advantages over BB10).

2012-05-04, 07:41 AM	#3
BGY11 Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Calgary AB Posts: 3,165	You can't really say that Windows phone has "many advantages" over an unreleased OS. RIM hasn't revealed everything there is to know about BB 10 yet. That said, I will agree that RIM needs to have something unique to set their devices apart from the crowd. Time will tell whether they can do it, but until devices are out and we have a clearer picture, it's too soon to say whether "the New BlackBerry" will be able to compete with Android, iOS, & Windows Phone. At the very least, when these devices launch, RIM better have a killer marketing campaign. "BeBold" won't cut it here, and I sure hope the new CMO they hire is ready for this challenge.

2012-05-07, 02:42 PM	#9
JohnnyCanuck Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 4,645	For those of us with a Playbook, I think we've been playing with what amounts to an early beta of BB10. It is a nice OS with lots of potential. Better or worse from a consumer standpoint than iOS or ICS? Not sure ... but as a turnaround point for RIM, it has real potential. RIM still has the benefit of providing the best enterprise back end. With mobile fusion able to support BYOD in the workplace, the security and bandwidth benefits or RIM's servers is still a large advantage. Merge the strides forward in BB10 with that advantage and I don't think that RIM needs a "Nintendo" to survive. They need a functional phone that balances the needs of a business user with some of the bells/whistles/customizations that Apple and Google provide.

2012-05-07, 09:18 PM	#10
Wayne Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scarboro Posts: 5,568	RIM still has a strong advantage with having excellent keyboards on their devices. If you need a smartphone for phone and email than a BB is still your best bet. But when it comes to everything else the BB is, IMHO, vastly inferior to an iPhone or android. For me the best solution is a BB plus an iPad and in the financial community (at least in Canada, US and UK) RIM still has a market share of well in excess of 50%. But if RIM wants together rid of the keyboard then many of these users, me included, will jump ship.

2012-05-10, 07:36 PM	#12
asif9t9 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Oakville, Cogeco Posts: 2,971	If RIM wants to succeed, they have to keep the keyboard, but also, they need to get more apps. They need every hot app that comes out to also have a BB version. Whether that's technically possible to make happen, I don't know, but people want their phones to do more that make call and check emails (which the BB does so well).

2012-05-13, 12:05 PM	#14
audacity Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 1,803	I'm not dismissing the advantages of a physical keyboard, but is that advantage so big that it could keep RIM competitive in the face of all their other technological disadvantages? I mean, if you want a physical keyboard what is to stop you from buying a Android phone with a physical keyboard?