Streaming vs BD/DVD (Split From Blockbuster Thread)

[ssbtech]

I'd like my iTunes trailers to be in HD - that way I have an accurate representation of what I'd be getting. I'm also willing to bet that the majority of folks don't have ethernet wired up behind their TV, so most users will be using the Apple TV via WiFi.

When I have a friend over I don't want to be monkeying around with trying to repair a broken computer (when iTunes refuses to run properly).

With all this streaming stuff there are too many points of failure. One of the most frequent calls for help that I received when working retail/support was to do with home routers. They're troublesome, unreliable and bound to screw up a good movie night far more than burned popcorn will.

[Shiningblade]

Can anybody add anything new to this discussion? The hyperbole is getting a little too thick.

Personally, I do not think it is a case of only one or the other these days. We still have a ways to go to have perfect streaming, including more cost effective bandwidth from the big internet service providers and consistent access to catalog items, especially here in Canada.

That said, it is moving towards easier and consistent streaming and if you are going to watch something just once, it is probably the best way to go.

For the video quality argument, even most SD video is better quality than a VHS tape and that was the only real option for the masses for a couple of decades (cinephiles had the option of LD, but it was far from something you could easily pick up at WalMart or Zellers). Things are improving on the compression front, and like everything else with technology, it will continue to evolve.

I still love my durable media and I like to physically own the shows and movies I rewatch multiple times. I hope that I can continue to buy the things I really want to own and I have enough bandwidth to stream the rest.

Cheers

[ssbtech]

Well, audacity is speaking from experience - where all of his devices have worked perfectly and he hasn't encountered any problems.

I'm speaking from experience too. Both my own and that of customers I have helped over the years.

I simply feel that streaming has a long way to go to catch up to the quality and reliability of physical media and for it to become as easy to use as simply sticking a disc in a player.

[ssbtech]

Right now I'm trying to watch a movie via iTunes.

It got about 50% downloaded then crapped out. Error 50 and wouldn't resume downloading. Checked the help site and the only suggestion was to clear the cached file and try again.

So far tonight trying to watch a movie via iTunes has taken me over half an hour and now I'm back to downloading from scratch with an estimated 48 minutes remaining.

Blockbuster was 5 minutes down the road

I should add that I'm trying to do this on my projector, and projector bulbs aren't exactly cheap.

[jshel101]

If you are having these experiences, then I would check your internet connection because something must be wrong with that. have a fairly fasy connection and NEVER have any problems renting or streaming videos.

[audacity]

ssbtech,

I've helped a bunch of people setup their HTPC or media streaming device, and none of them have this issue.

Two troubleshooting points:

1. Ensure that you're using wired Ethernet for your video streaming. Wireless networking is a bad idea in general for this task, especially if you have neighbours that also have devices that use up the 2.4GHz spectrum. Often times WiFi network issues turn out to be a neighbour who uses a baby monitor. Or some other root cause that you can do very little about.

2. If iTunes is screwing up (you're reporting it is constantly screwing up for you), I'd begin to suspect the software installation on that machine. Is it possible that other software is interfering with iTunes? Network issues may explain download issues, but it doesn't explain iTunes crashing repeatedly.

Of course, all of the baby boomers that I've configured media streaming setups for are using Apple TV devices or a Xbox 360 so they don't need to manage the software configuration on their machines. I generally don't recommend a HTPC to people who aren't the sort who are comfortable with doing a bunch of troubleshooting, and from what you are saying you are a member of this group.

[ssbtech]

I appreciate the advice. I've been doing tech support and system setups for many years myself so I have all of that covered. Wired network which is running fine, in fact the computer had just spent two hours playing videos off another computer on the LAN.

Since it is an HTPC the software installation is pretty bare-bones. iTunes media playback is fine and the downloading was fine up until about 40%. I cleared the cashed movie and the download started over and completed without fault.

[Michael DeAbreu]

Microsoft pulled Windows Media Center out of Windows 8, in part because:

"In the process of building a robust platform, we’ve also evaluated which in-box media playback experiences we want to provide. The media landscape has changed quite significantly since the release of Windows 7. Our telemetry data and user research shows us that the vast majority of video consumption on the PC and other mobile devices is coming from online sources such as YouTube, Hulu, Netflix, or any of the other myriad of online and downloadable video services available. In fact, consumption of movies online in the United States will surpass physical video in 2012, according to this recent IHS Screen Digest research.

On the PC, these online sources are growing much faster than DVD & broadcast TV consumption, which are in sharp decline (no matter how you measure—unique users, minutes, percentage of sources, etc.). Globally, DVD sales have declined significantly year over year and Blu-ray on PCs is losing momentum as well. Watching broadcast TV on PCs, while incredibly important for some of you, has also declined steadily. These traditional media playback scenarios, optical media and broadcast TV, require a specialized set of decoders (and hardware) that cost a significant amount in royalties. With these decoders built into most Windows 7 editions, the industry has faced those costs broadly, regardless of whether or not a given device includes an optical drive or TV tuner."

The IHS report states, in part:

"Americans will pay to consume more movies online in 2012 than they will on physical video formats, marking the first year that legal, Internet-delivered movies will outstrip those of DVDs and Blu-ray discs combined.

The legal, paid consumption of movies online in the United States will reach 3.4 billion views or transactions in 2012, approximately 1.0 billion units higher than the 2.4 billion for physical video for this year, according to the IHS Screen Digest Broadband Media Market Insight report from information and analytics provider IHS."

[ssbtech]

Trying to rent another movie via iTunes and it crapped out again half way through. Why is there no error correction that allows it to keep re-trying in the background without stopping playback? It is so frustrating using these rental store replacements.

[Coop]

Perhaps another nail in the coffin for the disk media. Who really wants to see this stuff, no wonder ripping and downloading is so popular.

The FBI Anti-Piracy Warning that is found on all modern DVD and Blu-ray discs is getting an upgrade. The United States government earlier this week announced that it will require two copyright notices on DVD and Blu-ray discs, Ars Technica reported. The first notice will warn potential piracy thieves, while the second one is meant to educate viewers.

[ssbtech]

Just a matter of time before they stick these warnings all over streaming movies.

[audacity]

Originally Posted by ssbtech

Just a matter of time before they stick these warnings all over streaming movies.

Do you have any evidence of this? Are these warnings on any streaming video service today?

They're not here now, and I don't see any incentive for companies like Apple or Microsoft to add those warnings or ads.

Trying to rent another movie via iTunes and it crapped out again half way through.

Interesting. I've watched two movies on Zune (via a Xbox 360) this week. I streamed them both (as opposed to downloading them first) and didn't have the slightest issue with them. Great 1080p video quality and not even the slightest hiccup in video quality/stuttering.

[ssbtech]

Originally Posted by audacity

Do you have any evidence of this? Are these warnings on any streaming video service today?

They're not here now, and I don't see any incentive for companies like Apple or Microsoft to add those warnings or ads.

As time goes on and the streaming services become more popular and more methods are created to make easy rips, I'm confident that the government will step in and force the providers (Apple, Netflix, etc...) to add warnings to the start of each movie.

Originally Posted by audacity

Interesting. I've watched two movies on Zune (via a Xbox 360) this week. I streamed them both (as opposed to downloading them first) and didn't have the slightest issue with them. Great 1080p video quality and not even the slightest hiccup in video quality/stuttering.

Frustrating is what I would call it. I still enjoy blu-ray for the PQ/SQ but the lack of rental outlets now forces me to use streaming services. I'm OK with giving streaming a chance, but when it goes haywire it's frustrating.

The 40 minutes I had to wait for the movie to complete downloading is much more than the 20 seconds of forced FBI warnings at the start of a blu-ray movie. And even then the movies I buy get placed on my server at home without all that crap and streamed to my HTPC via MyMovies in Windows Media Center (See, I'm not such a technophobe )

[cooper83]

Interesting. I've watched two movies on Zune (via a Xbox 360) this week. I streamed them both (as opposed to downloading them first) and didn't have the slightest issue with them. Great 1080p video quality and not even the slightest hiccup in video quality/stuttering.

Congratulations. What's your point? You used Zune, he's using iTunes. I'm betting your internet service is different too. So how is that a fair comparison?

Do you have any evidence of this? ...I don't see any incentive for companies like Apple or Microsoft to add those warnings or ads.

The evidence is based on what studios did with the popular consumer media of choice at the time: VHS, DVD, Blu-ray. If streaming becomes the new popular media of choice, what's to say studios wouldn't add these ads & warnings? What incentive do these companies currently have, other than annoying the consumer?

For someone who's so concerned about evidence, your logic is severely flawed.

[audacity]

Originally Posted by cooper83

The evidence is based on what studios did with the popular consumer media of choice at the time: VHS, DVD, Blu-ray. If streaming becomes the new popular media of choice, what's to say studios wouldn't add these ads & warnings? What incentive do these companies currently have, other than annoying the consumer?

Studios had direct control over the media in those cases. You don't see those ads or warnings on movies when they are broadcast on the movie channel.

The studios directly create the DVD and Blu-ray discs so they can put whatever advertising they want on the disc (previews, etc). These ads directly benefit the studios because it is advertising their products (and warning against pirating them). I should point out that the studios add this non-feature-film content willingly and enthusiastically. Nobody is forcing them to do it. In fact, I'm sure the piracy warnings that are unskippable were added because the movie studios wanted them there, and since they directly manufacture the disc, no 3rd party can "get in the way" by putting the user experience first and stripping out the advertising.

In today's streaming environment we have companies that play this role like Apple and Netflix. We even have examples where a studio tried to put advertising in TV shows that were sold on iTunes. Apple pulled those TV episodes from the studio in question and told them to remove the advertising. Clearly the studios don't have the freedom to do whatever they want.

For someone who's so concerned about evidence, your logic is severely flawed.

Kettle? The pot's on the line.